Peter, The First Pope?

[oldhermit]

Is Peter, The First Pope?

If he was then why does scripture never apply such a term to him? This means the idea originated from outside of scripture.

 

[Marcelo]

Mat 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.



God is our father and I don't think He would make us dependent on a falible succession system. Just one carnal pope (among many, throughout history) would be enough to disrupt the succession process. No, the Christian Church does not depend on a succession of human leaders - Jesus himself is the chief cornerstone on which His Church is established.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Mat 16:18 God is our father and I don't think He would make us dependent on a falible succession system. Just one carnal pope (among many, throughout history) would be enough to disrupt the succession process. No, the Christian Church does not depend on a succession of human leaders - Jesus himself is the chief cornerstone on which His Church is established.

"And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

Hello Marcelo,

And I would also add that, when Jesus said "upon this Rock I will build my church" he wasn't speaking about Peter, but of himself. Jesus had just asked the disciples the question "who do you say that I am?" Peter said, "you are the Messiah of God." So, Peter confessed who Christ was and then Jesus does the same to Peter "and I say that you are Peter." Then Jesus says, "upon this Rock I will build my church," referring to himself, not Peter. Jesus is the Rock.

And you are correct, scripture never teaches that there was to be one man over the entire church. In fact, the RCC is set up exactly opposite of what Jesus said:

"But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

 

[crossnote]

I'd like to think my denomination isn't unique, but I don't really keep up with the political side of religion to know for sure. I don't even keep up with the political side of my deomination all that much.

BUT, J.I. Packer, a famous theologian that runs in the reformed waters, (and not of my denomination, althought it's possible Angela may be connected denominationally with him) tried to get us to all agree on Ecumenicalism. Some of us said no way! We're sticking with no way.

We're still out here. You are not alone. (And notice, I'm not knocking you out of the boat, because we disagree on other things. lol)

Yes, I have more respect with those who are dogmatic and have convictions even though I may disagree with, than those with little to no convictions at all but play nicey-nice for unity sake.

 

[crossnote]

Mat 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

God is our father and I don't think He would make us dependent on a falible succession system. Just one carnal pope (among many, throughout history) would be enough to disrupt the succession process. No, the Christian Church does not depend on a succession of human leaders - Jesus himself is the chief cornerstone on which His Church is established.

Their succession landed them with three simultaneous popes at one time. Will the real Pope please stand up?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Schism

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, I have more respect with those who are dogmatic and have convictions even though I may disagree with, than those with little to no convictions at all but play nicey-nice for unity sake.

how do you recognize the ones with little to no convictions do you mean in person or on the internet?
people can use different online characters but in person the two online characters is one person.

 

[Depleted]

Yes, I have more respect with those who are dogmatic and have convictions even though I may disagree with, than those with little to no convictions at all but play nicey-nice for unity sake.

I think that is our other commonality. Me too!

 

[Depleted]

how do you recognize the ones with little to no convictions do you mean in person or on the internet?
people can use different online characters but in person the two online characters is one person.

It's kind of like dating or a new job -- you can only play the part for so long before the real person comes out. They call it "the honeymoon period" for a reason.

 

[BeyondET]

It's kind of like dating or a new job -- you can only play the part for so long before the real person comes out. They call it "the honeymoon period" for a reason.

hehe right...

 

[crossnote]

how do you recognize the ones with little to no convictions do you mean in person or on the internet?
people can use different online characters but in person the two online characters is one person.

Not sure about online characters.
Convictions, as in Christians standing their ground on a certain topic ...'The Scripture says', rather than phrases like 'it all depends' or 'well, some cultures believe'.

 

[Vdp]

What the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures is the only Authoritative source of the Truth. No Church, and no Pope of a Church can declare they have Truths that are not in the Scriptures.

The Catholic Church has put their doctrines and what the Popes says above the Scriptures. In the Catholic Church the only Authoritative source for the Truth is the Catholic Church only.

This is how Satan gets people to follow him instead of God.

 

[VernonFrancis]

How could Paul have rebuked "the pope"?

When Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Galatians 2:11-16.

I realize many here have a bias toward history depending on their faith tradition, and we each seek to justify our position by contending against one another, this is unscriptural yet few Protestants will admit that their position is not according to scripture.

even less evangelicals will admit their position is unscriptural also.

until we realize we are all in error, we will continue to quench the Holy Spirit.

just a thought

 

[Marian29]

Mat 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

How does anyone derive from this declaration of Jesus Christ that Peter is the first pope? In view of the teaching that we are to call no man father (pope), why would this title be conferred upon any flesh? We are to call no man (spiritually) father, for we have but one Father.

Peter certainly did not refer to himself as pope or father, and there are no humanly named popes until the Catholic church came into being, centuries later.

Do not be taken in by clever misapplication and misappropriation of theWord. Jesus Christ named no man "father," pope that is.

The Rock is Jesus. Rock = Jesus.

 

[oyster67]

how do you recognize the ones with little to no convictions do you mean in person or on the internet?
people can use different online characters but in person the two online characters is one person.

It is true that there are some devious creatures dwelling on the internet, even on CC, but my experience is that many of the most artificial characters in my life are people I see in "real life" every week. Some are even family members.

The best advice that I can think of at the moment is; be sensitive to the Spirit of God that dwells whithin you. He is a revealer of hearts and intents of both offline and online characters.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Pope who needs a pope when we have Jesus Christ.

 

[oyster67]

Pope who needs a pope when we have Jesus Christ.

Amen. ...and the Holy Spirit and the Bible and fellow Believers and the power of Prayer... he is too big to be a paperweight.

 

[ChristineInCleveland]

All it takes is a cursory study of the past popes and their conduct to know that these men have nothing devine about them.

And Pope Francis is as vile as they come... no doubt in mind, he's the last one!

 

[garee]

"And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

[/SIZE] Hello Marcelo,

And I would also add that, when Jesus said "upon this Rock I will build my church" he wasn't speaking about Peter, but of himself. Jesus had just asked the disciples the question "who do you say that I am?" Peter said, "you are the Messiah of God." So, Peter confessed who Christ was and then Jesus does the same to Peter "and I say that you are Peter." Then Jesus says, "upon this Rock I will build my church," referring to himself, not Peter. Jesus is the Rock.

And you are correct, scripture never teaches that there was to be one man over the entire church. In fact, the RCC is set up exactly opposite of what Jesus said:

"But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

I would agree .It's the little word it used to represent the unseen faith of God that the gates of hell could never prevail against . It the same use of the word it in the previous verse .They both work together to give it the meaning that I believe God intended.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The Catholic simply walk by sight and need an image to place their misguided, father guided , faith in .It's the same paradigm found in the garden in the beginning as a wile of Satan.

 

[Mec99]

Pope John Paul II saw nothing wrong with bowing down to a statue of Mary and worshiping her. In fact he gave all credit to Mary for saving him after he was shot. Not once did he ever thank God for protecting him!

 

[JaumeJ]

OK folks! The first Pope is the only Pope. Since pope means father, I think you know Who He is too.