PreTrib Rapture Moment 5: What Does Catholicism Teach? - Teaching by Bryan Denlinger

[kardiaoangelous]

As far as I know, Catholicism does not teach the rapture theory. We do teach the second coming which is biblical

Yes, the rapture is a mistaken interpretation of scripture by those who do not understand what it means to meet up with the Lord in the air.

But the second coming is not actually a second coming though it might appear so to the eyes of the world.

We have to look at the meaning of the word parousia to see this. Parousia is the word translated as coming at Matthew 24:3

 

[jb]

...

Let me keep this simple...:

'Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him...for that Day will not come...' (2Thess 2v1,3)

The 2nd coming of Christ and our gathering together unto Him (the resurrection and rapture) Paul says occurs on the SAME day immediately after the Great Tribulation, they are NOT separated by three and a half years...

Now, be like the Bereans (Acts 17v11,12) and (even) you should grasp this simple truth...son!

 

[peterT]

Well it is not really called "the Tribulation." It is referred to in the Scriptures as the time of Jacob's trouble:


[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. - Jeremiah 30:7 (King James Bible)

It is also referred to as Daniel's Seventieth week:

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. - Daniel 9:24-27 (King James Bible)
.

You have Jesus coming 3 ½ years before the great tribulation even starts

And you talk about rightly dividing the word of truth.

Delusional

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You have Jesus coming 3 ½ years before the great tribulation even starts

And you talk about rightly dividing the word of truth.

Delusional

He is coming for His Church in the clouds. At the Rapture, Jesus will come for His Church. His Bride.

But at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth and His feet will touch the Mount Of Olives. (Zech. 14:4)

In Revelation 19 & 20, the Rapture is not mentioned. That is because the Rapture is not the same event as the Second Coming.

Two Different events Peter. The Rapture comes before the time of Jacob's trouble starts. The Body of Christ cannot be on the earth at the same time the antichrist is on the earth.

Once the Body of Christ is removed from off the Earth, then the Antichrist will show up on the scene. And the time of Jacob's trouble will then be in operation.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Yes, the rapture is a mistaken interpretation of scripture by those who do not understand what it means to meet up with the Lord in the air.

But the second coming is not actually a second coming though it might appear so to the eyes of the world.

We have to look at the meaning of the word parousia to see this. Parousia is the word translated as coming at Matthew 24:3

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ is a literal event. It will happen just as the Bible says it will. Kardiaoangelous, I encourage you to read the Bible literally. You will learn so much more when you are dispensational and when you read the Bible literally.

 

[peterT]

He is coming for His Church in the clouds. At the Rapture, Jesus will come for His Church. His Bride.

But at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth and His feet will touch the Mount Of Olives. (Zech. 14:4)

In Revelation 19 & 20, the Rapture is not mentioned. That is because the Rapture is not the same event as the Second Coming.

Two Different events Peter. The Rapture comes before the time of Jacob's trouble starts. The Body of Christ cannot be on the earth at the same time the antichrist is on the earth.

Once the Body of Christ is removed from off the Earth, then the Antichrist will show up on the scene. And the time of Jacob's trouble will then be in operation.

Nothing in there saying a 7 year great tribulation.

Try again

 

[mwc68]

He is coming for His Church in the clouds. At the Rapture, Jesus will come for His Church. His Bride.

But at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth and His feet will touch the Mount Of Olives. (Zech. 14:4)

In Revelation 19 & 20, the Rapture is not mentioned. That is because the Rapture is not the same event as the Second Coming.

Two Different events Peter. The Rapture comes before the time of Jacob's trouble starts. The Body of Christ cannot be on the earth at the same time the antichrist is on the earth.

Once the Body of Christ is removed from off the Earth, then the Antichrist will show up on the scene. And the time of Jacob's trouble will then be in operation.

Sounds to me like 3 comings, 1 Birth 2 Rapture 3 End of the Age. 1+1+1=3. The Bible only mentions 2 comings, Birth and Final at the End. You have to do a lot of dancing around to come up with these 3 events when the Bible only mentions 2

 

[peterT]

He is coming for His Church in the clouds. At the Rapture, Jesus will come for His Church. His Bride.

But at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth and His feet will touch the Mount Of Olives. (Zech. 14:4)

In Revelation 19 & 20, the Rapture is not mentioned. That is because the Rapture is not the same event as the Second Coming.

Two Different events Peter. The Rapture comes before the time of Jacob's trouble starts. The Body of Christ cannot be on the earth at the same time the antichrist is on the earth.

Once the Body of Christ is removed from off the Earth, then the Antichrist will show up on the scene. And the time of Jacob's trouble will then be in operation.

Here let me help you out bro, seeing that you haven’t done the study on the great tribulation and you have come here half-cocked and not fully loaded.

And seeing you are just teaching what you have been told by the fake prophet Bryan Denlinger your friend.

It’s not a seven year great tribulation, it’s a 3 ½ year great tribulation.

I think this is how you get your seven years.?

Jesus said

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
21For then shall be great tribulation,

Follow the bread crumbs to Daniel.

Daniel9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

As you can see it’s in the middle of the week when you see the abominations he shall make it desolate. NOT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WEEK.

Plus. He has power to continue for 42 months and makes war with the saints.

Rv13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Plus the devil is cast out and persecuted the woman for 3 ½ years NOT SEVEN.

Rv12;13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So as you can see it’s a 3 ½ year great tribulation. Jesus said so.

Now do you want to revise your theory on the rapture being 3 ½ years even before the great tribulation even begins ?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Bistabuster]

Bistabuster, what Zone did was and is very Illogical and unbiblical. And that was she denied the literal 1,000 year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ. And let me tell you and assure you all something and that is that Jesus Christ WILL Rule and Reign physically on this Earth for 1,000 years after the time of Jacob's trouble is over. He is going to rule the nations with a rod of iron. And whether Zone wants to believe it or not. It is going to happen. It is a very, very important part of Bible Prophecy.

Honestly, you showed me nothing. There is nothing I can go on. Sorry.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

The Second Coming of Jesus Christ is a literal event. It will happen just as the Bible says it will. Kardiaoangelous, I encourage you to read the Bible literally. You will learn so much more when you are dispensational and when you read the Bible literally.

Ditto,

I know it is literal. You do not understand what I said. There is much more to consider there. It is actually a second revealing. Christ has already been present with his true church as implied by that word, "parousia", which means quite literally, "a presence with". Used in connection with Christ it allows for his having already arrived to the church and having been with the church but not yet revealed to those outside of the church.

That meeting the Lord in the air means they have become totally cleansed and made holly so that they can now take over the authority of the air which formerly was occupied by demonic forces. There is a lot you have not considered yet, but you naturally do not know it. No man knows what he has failed to consider until he is confronted with it.

 

[Bistabuster]

No he is not.

He is a Bible believer who rightly divides the word of truth.





And yes, there will be a Pre-tribulation Rapture. What Paul was referring to when he stated "for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first," he was referring to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Not the Rapture. But the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those two events are not the same. You need to rightly divide the word of truth.

The Body of Christ has to be taken off the earth before the Antichrist is to be on the earth. The Body of Christ cannot be on the earth at the same time that the antichrist is be on the earth. It is not possible.


For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. - 2 Thessalonians 2:7 (King James Bible)

So again, the Body of Christ must be removed from off of the earth before the Antichrist is to be revealed.





Again JB, the Day of the Lord is not the Rapture. But it is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. You need to start rightly dividing the truth.

The Christians will be removed from off the earth prior to the Antichrist coming on the scene.



No JB, it is not the same day. The Rapture happens first. Then the time of Jacob's trouble begins. Once the Rapture of the Body of Christ takes place, then that is when the time of Jacob's trouble will begin.

There is asbolutely no Rapture mentioned in Revelation 19 or Revelation 20. Rev. 19 & 20 talk about the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and also His 1,000 year Physical Reign on this Earth. But again, no where in those two chapters of Revelation is the Rapture mentioned.

Now, the Rapture is mentioned mainly in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-55. That is why the Rapture is indeed a Pre-trib Rapture and NOT A POST Trib. Rapture.

The Rapture is a mystery. And Paul describes it as such when he first mentions it in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54.




The Saints at Thessalonica thought they had missed the Rapture. Therefore, they thought that the Day of The Lord/ The Day of Christ (Second Coming) was at hand.

Therefore Paul was teaching them once again about the events that would be taking place, and that would be leading up to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again JB, the Body of Christ will not be going through the time of Jacob's trouble. The time of Jacob's trouble is to bring Israel into correction (See Jeremiah 30). It is not for the Church.

After all, it IS NOT called the Church's trouble, it is called the time of Jacob's trouble.

We are not appointed to God's wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ ( 1 Thessalonians 5:9)

Again, you need to start rightly dividing the word of truth.



I won't be going through the Great Tribulation. I will be with my Lord Jesus Christ in the air, in the clouds. Therefore I am not getting ready for the Tribulation. But rather, I am getting ready for the Rapture. Which is known as the Pre-tribulation Rapture.

I am looking for that blessed hope. And I am looking for the Glorious Appearing of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Which will take place BEFORE the Tribulation starts. As Christians, we need to get ready to meet the Lord in the air, and we need to get ready for the Judgment Seat of Christ.

I am not looking for the antichrist.


But rather, I am looking for my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


And JB, if you are truly saved and born again, then whether you like it or not, you also will not be going through the time of the Great Tribulation. You will not be going through the time of Jacob's trouble.

But you will be present at the Rapture. Which again, takes place BEFORE the time of Jacob's trouble. So, if you are saved, then I suggest you start getting ready to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the air.

Start looking for the Lord Jesus Christ.

And STOP looking for the antichrist.

You said this....
I won't be going through the Great Tribulation. I will be with my Lord Jesus Christ in the air, in the clouds. Therefore I am not getting ready for the Tribulation.

Let's put this into perspective. So, you say you will be gone before the tribulation. OK. I will assume you are correct. Now, since you will be gone that day before all of this GT starts, you said (and I'm quoting from you so don't say I am in error) you will be with the Lord in the air, in the clouds. I'll even throw in the trumpet for good measure. 1 Cor 15:51-52. There is a trumpet listed in there so I assume you will have that too when you meet Him in the air. This is the passage you swear by that we will be gone before the GT. That's what you've been trying to tell me (us). OK. I won't argue that fact. You're right. Moving on. Again. You say all this will happen before the GT. OK. I got it. Jesus comes in the clouds at the sound of the trumpet and we meet Him in the air. All of this occurs before the GT. That is what you said. Remember. I'm strictly quoting from you if what you say is true.

So. Is this type of passage written like this in the Bible? Yes. When does the Bible say it will occur just as you said in your statement above? It says after the tribulation. So, if you are correct, then there are two events that say that Jesus is coming in the clouds and we meet Him in the air at the sound of the trumpet. All of this as you said, is spelled out in great detail in Matt 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. Every single thing you said that will happen to you occurs before the tribulation. I don't care how you slice it and dice it. You just quoted Matt and Mark and you don't even realize it.

If what you say is true, I want the OTHER verse you say that is in the Bible that nobody else can find that says "before the tribulation, the Lord will come in the clouds and we will meet Him in the air. That's what we want to see but you keep evading the question and all you do is dance around that very simple statement. Show me that pre tribulation verse. Not 1 Cor 15:51-52 or any of the others you have been dishing out. I want that exact verse. If what you say is true, then it shouldn't be too difficult to show everyone here where it is. I can't find it. I looked everywhere. You show us where it is.

 

[peterT]

But at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth and His feet will touch the Mount Of Olives. (Zech. 14:4)

.

That seems to have put you to silence bro.

So can you show a 7 year great tribulation?

And after you get done trying to tell me how wonderful Bryan Denlinger is, maybe you can tell me how wonderful Jesus is?

 

[Bistabuster]

I'm still trying to find your 3.5 year tribulation.

 

[Bistabuster]

I'm still waiting for an answer from chosenbyhim on post 191.

 

[peterT]

I'm still trying to find your 3.5 year tribulation.

here is your 3.5 years

Rv13;5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


He has power for 42 months ( 3 ½ years), He makes war with the saints. He overcomes them: he has power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


Rv12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

He persecuted the woman and her seed, and she flees into the wilderness for ( 3 ½ years)

The two end time prophets prophesy for ( 3 ½ years), and are killed and rased at the last trumpet,

Rv11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


there is your 3.5 years,

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You said this....
I won't be going through the Great Tribulation. I will be with my Lord Jesus Christ in the air, in the clouds. Therefore I am not getting ready for the Tribulation.

Let's put this into perspective. So, you say you will be gone before the tribulation. OK. I will assume you are correct. Now, since you will be gone that day before all of this GT starts, you said (and I'm quoting from you so don't say I am in error) you will be with the Lord in the air, in the clouds. I'll even throw in the trumpet for good measure. 1 Cor 15:51-52. There is a trumpet listed in there so I assume you will have that too when you meet Him in the air. This is the passage you swear by that we will be gone before the GT. That's what you've been trying to tell me (us). OK. I won't argue that fact. You're right. Moving on. Again. You say all this will happen before the GT. OK. I got it. Jesus comes in the clouds at the sound of the trumpet and we meet Him in the air. All of this occurs before the GT. That is what you said. Remember. I'm strictly quoting from you if what you say is true.

So. Is this type of passage written like this in the Bible? Yes. When does the Bible say it will occur just as you said in your statement above? It says after the tribulation. So, if you are correct, then there are two events that say that Jesus is coming in the clouds and we meet Him in the air at the sound of the trumpet. All of this as you said, is spelled out in great detail in Matt 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. Every single thing you said that will happen to you occurs before the tribulation. I don't care how you slice it and dice it. You just quoted Matt and Mark and you don't even realize it.

If what you say is true, I want the OTHER verse you say that is in the Bible that nobody else can find that says "before the tribulation, the Lord will come in the clouds and we will meet Him in the air. That's what we want to see but you keep evading the question and all you do is dance around that very simple statement. Show me that pre tribulation verse. Not 1 Cor 15:51-52 or any of the others you have been dishing out. I want that exact verse. If what you say is true, then it shouldn't be too difficult to show everyone here where it is. I can't find it. I looked everywhere. You show us where it is.

Bistabuster, I must have missed this question by accident. I did not intentionally overlook it, I just had some other posts and responses to them which I also was addressing.


Now to answer your question, whenever your dealing with a subject or major event taught in the Scriptures, it is important to always compare Scripture with Scripture.


Now you asked me where is there a verse in the Scriptures that say explicitly "before the tribulation."


Believe it or not, I already answered this particular question of yours. Please see Post #114.


But I will answer it again for the sake of the others on this forum who sincerely want to know this truth and want help in this area.


Now let me re-emphasize this point which I made earlier, if you want to understand a key passage in the Bible, you need to properly identify the Bible Terms and phrases. Those Biblical terms that are describing the event being referenced within the context of the passage.


So, here is my answer to your question Bistabuster.


The phrase: "before the tribulation" does not show up anywhere in the Scriptures. Now you may think that that proves your claim and argument for a Post trib Rapture. But it does not.


The term : "the tribulation" only appears 1 time in the Holy Scriptures, and that is in Matthew 24:29:


Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: - Matthew 24:29 (King James Bible)


Now did you notice something about the phrase "the tribulation" as it occurs in that passage?


Note: The phrase "the tribulation" in Matthew 24:29 is not a title of the event which is coming upon the lost world after the Body of Christ is taken off the earth.


The very phrase "the tribulation" is followed by the words: "of those days."

Which means that the phrase "the tribulation" is simply a DESCRIPTION of what it is going to be like in the time of Jacob's trouble.

The Biblical term for the 7 year period that will come upon the lost world after the Catching away of the Saints IS NOT "The Tribulation," or "The Great Tribulation."The Biblical name and title for this coming 7 year period is called: The time of Jacob's trouble (See Jeremiah 30:7).


The reason I will commonly refer to it also as the tribulation is simply because most people identify that term with this future 7 year period.


This future 7 year period where God will pour His wrath upon the lost world is after the Body of Christ is removed off the earth, is also commonly referred to as"Daniel's Seventieth Week."


But again, keep in mind that the Biblical Term and Title for this upcoming 7 Year Period is "The Time of Jacob's trouble" (Jer. 30:7).


The word "tribulation" occurs a total of 22 times in the King James Authorized Version.


And it is a word that means trouble or distress.


One of the definitions of the word "Tribulation" is as follows:


distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution; also : a trying experience.


That's basically what tribulation is. And every occurrence of the word "tribulation" in the Scriptures is as a description of what is taking place to a person or a group of people. It is a description of trouble, suffering and distress coming upon a certain group of people or even a person.
And out of the 22 occurrences of the word "tribulation" in the Scriptures, not one time is it a title of an event.

Now having established that fact, here is what also is important to know.


And that is, in the Scriptures there are two kinds of tribulation:


Tribulation from the lost world.


And then there is tribulation from God.



Here are some Scriptures that describe tribulation coming upon God's people from the lost world:




[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, saying, We have sinned against thee, both because we have forsaken our God, and also served Baalim.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Did not I deliver you from the Egyptians, and from the Amorites, from the children of Ammon, and from the Philistines?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Zidonians also, and the Amalekites, and the Maonites, did oppress you; and ye cried to me, and I delivered you out of their hand.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the children of Israel said unto the Lord, We have sinned: do thou unto us whatsoever seemeth good unto thee; deliver us only, we pray thee, this day.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the Lord: and his soul was grieved for the misery of Israel. - Judges 10:10-16 (King James Bible)

So, the tribulation that the Children of Israel was going through was the oppression which was coming on them from the Egyptians, Amorites, the Children of Ammon, the Philistines, the Zidonians, the Amalekites, and from the Maonites. In this passage, the term "tribulation" is being defined. It was basically the oppression that was coming upon the children of Israel from these different peoples and nations. A lot of times, the tribulation that either a group of people faces or just a person goes through is the simple result of sin and rebellion. As was the case here for the children of Israel.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You said this....
I won't be going through the Great Tribulation. I will be with my Lord Jesus Christ in the air, in the clouds. Therefore I am not getting ready for the Tribulation.

Let's put this into perspective. So, you say you will be gone before the tribulation. OK. I will assume you are correct. Now, since you will be gone that day before all of this GT starts, you said (and I'm quoting from you so don't say I am in error) you will be with the Lord in the air, in the clouds. I'll even throw in the trumpet for good measure. 1 Cor 15:51-52. There is a trumpet listed in there so I assume you will have that too when you meet Him in the air. This is the passage you swear by that we will be gone before the GT. That's what you've been trying to tell me (us). OK. I won't argue that fact. You're right. Moving on. Again. You say all this will happen before the GT. OK. I got it. Jesus comes in the clouds at the sound of the trumpet and we meet Him in the air. All of this occurs before the GT. That is what you said. Remember. I'm strictly quoting from you if what you say is true.

So. Is this type of passage written like this in the Bible? Yes. When does the Bible say it will occur just as you said in your statement above? It says after the tribulation. So, if you are correct, then there are two events that say that Jesus is coming in the clouds and we meet Him in the air at the sound of the trumpet. All of this as you said, is spelled out in great detail in Matt 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. Every single thing you said that will happen to you occurs before the tribulation. I don't care how you slice it and dice it. You just quoted Matt and Mark and you don't even realize it.

If what you say is true, I want the OTHER verse you say that is in the Bible that nobody else can find that says "before the tribulation, the Lord will come in the clouds and we will meet Him in the air. That's what we want to see but you keep evading the question and all you do is dance around that very simple statement. Show me that pre tribulation verse. Not 1 Cor 15:51-52 or any of the others you have been dishing out. I want that exact verse. If what you say is true, then it shouldn't be too difficult to show everyone here where it is. I can't find it. I looked everywhere. You show us where it is.

Let's look at another example in the Scriptures of where this term "tribulation" foretells of oppression and trouble that will come from the lost world. And in this next example, it is our Lord Jesus Christ that prophecies of the tribulation that will come upon His apostles in the world:


[SUP]30 [/SUP]Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. - John 16:30-33 (King James Bible)


In this passage it is clear that Jesus was not referring to the 7 year period called the time of Jacob's trouble when he was mentioning of the tribulation that His apostles would soon have coming to them.


Here is another example in the Scriptures where this term "tribulation" defines itself:


[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now therefore, I pray thee, let my lord the king hear the words of his servant. If the Lord have stirred thee up against me, let him accept an offering: but if they be the children of men, cursed be they before the Lord; for they have driven me out this day from abiding in the inheritance of the Lord, saying, Go, serve other gods.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now therefore, let not my blood fall to the earth before the face of the Lord: for the king of Israel is come out to seek a flea, as when one doth hunt a partridge in the mountains.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then said Saul, I have sinned: return, my son David: for I will no more do thee harm, because my soul was precious in thine eyes this day: behold, I have played the fool, and have erred exceedingly.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And David answered and said, Behold the king's spear! and let one of the young men come over and fetch it.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]The Lord render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness; for the Lord delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the Lord's anointed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the Lord, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then Saul said to David, Blessed be thou, my son David: thou shalt both do great things, and also shalt still prevail. So David went on his way, and Saul returned to his place. - 1 Samuel 16:19-25 (King James Bible)

What was the tribulation that David was referring to? It was "tribulation," or trouble, or persecution that was from his enemies, namely king Saul. And again, it is quite obvious that the term "tribulation" is not referring to the time of Jacob's trouble. Just by reading the passage, and keeping it in context, any Christian should be able to see that.


Now let's look at a Scripture that prophecies of tribulation or trouble coming from God's wrath upon the lost sinners who do not receive the Lord Jesus Christ:




[SUP]3 [/SUP]And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For there is no respect of persons with God. - Romans 2:3-11 (King James Bible)


The word "tribulation" in this passage is talking about the anguish, wrath, and indignation that will come upon the lost sinners. Now I believe here that Romans 2:9 is specifically talking about the indignation and wrath that comes upon the lost sinners in Hell and in the Lake of Fire.


[SUP]5 [/SUP]The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright. - Psalm 11:5-7 (King James Bible)


Now having showed you Bistabuster, that the word "tribulation" in the Scriptures is always a word used to describe the trouble and the persecution that comes upon the righteous and the just from the lost world. And that this same term is also used to describe the coming wrath and judgment that will come upon the wicked in the time of Jacob's trouble. And this kind of tribulation that comes upon the wicked and the damned in the time of Jacob's trouble will be tribulation that is coming from God.


So now I am going to answer your question by asking you a question, and that is this:


This 7 year period coming in the near future, what is the purpose of it?


What is the purpose of the time of Jacob's trouble?


Here is another question Bistabuster, who brings in the time of Jacob's trouble? Is it Satan or is it the Lord God Almighty?


Now let me say this Bistabuster, if you answer these questions correctly, it will ultimately prove the Pre-tribulation Rapture.


You see Bistabuster, you think that you have a legitimate argument for the post trib rapture theory simply because the phrase "before the tribulation" is not found in the Scriptures. Furthermore, you think that Matthew 24:29 proves a post trib rapture when it does not. Matthew 24:29 is where Jesus Christ is prophesying about the signs that will will follow immediately after the end of the time of Jacob's trouble. And Jesus also prophesies His Second Coming that will take place immediately following those signs.


Here is another question though, the resurrection of the dead saints in Christ that Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 15. Where is the resurrection of the dead saints in Christ in Matthew 24:29-31? Or where is it in Mark 13:24-27?


Here is yet another question for you Bistabuster, in Matthew 24:29 & Mark 13:24-25, the signs (sun being darkened, the moon not giving its light and the stars falling from heaven) that Jesus Christ prophesied that would come after the tribulation of those days, and right before His Second Coming, are they mentioned anywhere in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55?


Or even 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18?


If they are not, then wouldn't you think that our Lord Jesus Christ was not referring to the Rapture, but rather to His Second Coming?

 

[Bistabuster]

here is your 3.5 years

Rv13;5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


He has power for 42 months ( 3 ½ years), He makes war with the saints. He overcomes them: he has power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


Rv12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

He persecuted the woman and her seed, and she flees into the wilderness for ( 3 ½ years)

The two end time prophets prophesy for ( 3 ½ years), and are killed and rased at the last trumpet,

Rv11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


there is your 3.5 years,

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

3.5 years

I like them better in day/years. Using them that way works better. Also, you're trying to cram every prophecy on top of each other. Dan 12:11. You're looking for an abomination of desolation starting at when the daily sacrifices start. 1290 days in three years. Riiiight.

Rev 11:1-2 Gentile control of Israel for only 42 months which is 3.5 years? Really? The Jewish people NEVER had control of Israel between Daniel's time and the 6 day war in 1967. Are you kidding me? 3.5 years? Are you nuts? Since 1967, historically, who is in control of Israel? The Gentiles? Or is it the Jews? Who's in control right now? Forget Scriptures on this one. Open your eyes and see.

I love this one. Rev 11:3-4. The two witnesses. So, they, and only they, have the power as specified in the Bible to do all these magical things like control the weather and turn water into blood. How about fire spewing out of their mouth. All this in 3.5 years? What was going on after Jesus died up until now? All this stuff is figurative and what it could mean is many thousand years of prophecy. 2000 or so to be exact. Are you telling me God was not in control during that time frame? God only set up 3.5 years to do this?

Lest we not forget. Time, times and half times. Dan 12:1-9. The river vision as I like to call it from 5-9. One person asked the other who was upon the waters of the river, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" The question is very simple and straight forward. My 9 year old son can understand it. What does this guy on the side of the river want to know? Very simple. He want to know when the end of it is? That is the end of the wonders. At this point, it doesn't matter what the wonder is. He was answered immediately. This is the answer. "It shall be a time, times and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." Now, when do you start this prophecy? There is only one place to start it. Unlike Dan 12:11 where you are given a start point, daily sacrifices taken away, this one has none of that so where do you start? How about when the question was asked? Think logically. Suppose YOU are the one asking that question. When do YOU want to know the answer? Right then. Well, guess what. He got the answer right then. The year was 533 BC that this vision occurred. You say a TTH are 3.5 years, right? OK. So be it. TTH is 3.5 years. That means the completion year would be 529.5 BC. That's exactly 3.5 years later. Did the completion of the scattering of the holy people end? Did the Jews regain control of Israel? No? Did the End Times start there? No? v4 and 9 says for Daniel to go his way for these words will be closed up and sealed UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END or end times. Even Jesus said the end times is not yet (or the end is not yet.) That's over 500 years later. When did the Jews regain Israel? 1967. That's a fact! That year was the end of the time of the Gentiles. The Jews will own that land from now on. Don't have time to explain but what if a time is a 1000 years. What if you have one time (time), another time (times) and a half time? That's 1+1+.5 or 2.5 times or 2500. 2 Pet 3:8 gives us a possibility to use a 1000 years. Also, the time, times and a half could be used as idiomatic language. 2 Kings 6:10, Job 33:14 and 40:5 and Psa 62:11 all have ways to read this times prophecy. None of those examples are 3 times. Only twice. It is only a possibility to try, so, let's try it. The question was asked in 533 BC and the answer gives us a completion event. The finalization on scattering the holy people (Jews) which completed itself in 1967. So, let's do the math. 2500-1967=533. Right to the year the question was given and answered. Spot on. Not to mention, the vision also told us these words will be sealed until the time of the end. That means the time of the end began in 1967 AND this wonder has completed itself as well. We can look back in time to see what has happened.

At least Skolfield, even if you say he's wrong and he may very well be but you are WAY off base. Right or wrong, I see Skolfield covers the Word and makes better sense of it than you do. This makes sense to me. Sorry!

 

[Bistabuster]

Bistabuster, I must have missed this question by accident. I did not intentionally overlook it, I just had some other posts and responses to them which I also was addressing.


Now to answer your question, whenever your dealing with a subject or major event taught in the Scriptures, it is important to always compare Scripture with Scripture.


Now you asked me where is there a verse in the Scriptures that say explicitly "before the tribulation."


Believe it or not, I already answered this particular question of yours. Please see Post #114.


But I will answer it again for the sake of the others on this forum who sincerely want to know this truth and want help in this area.


Now let me re-emphasize this point which I made earlier, if you want to understand a key passage in the Bible, you need to properly identify the Bible Terms and phrases. Those Biblical terms that are describing the event being referenced within the context of the passage.


So, here is my answer to your question Bistabuster.


The phrase: "before the tribulation" does not show up anywhere in the Scriptures. Now you may think that that proves your claim and argument for a Post trib Rapture. But it does not.


The term : "the tribulation" only appears 1 time in the Holy Scriptures, and that is in Matthew 24:29:


Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: - Matthew 24:29 (King James Bible)


Now did you notice something about the phrase "the tribulation" as it occurs in that passage?


Note: The phrase "the tribulation" in Matthew 24:29 is not a title of the event which is coming upon the lost world after the Body of Christ is taken off the earth.


The very phrase "the tribulation" is followed by the words: "of those days."

Which means that the phrase "the tribulation" is simply a DESCRIPTION of what it is going to be like in the time of Jacob's trouble.

The Biblical term for the 7 year period that will come upon the lost world after the Catching away of the Saints IS NOT "The Tribulation," or "The Great Tribulation."The Biblical name and title for this coming 7 year period is called: The time of Jacob's trouble (See Jeremiah 30:7).


The reason I will commonly refer to it also as the tribulation is simply because most people identify that term with this future 7 year period.


This future 7 year period where God will pour His wrath upon the lost world is after the Body of Christ is removed off the earth, is also commonly referred to as"Daniel's Seventieth Week."


But again, keep in mind that the Biblical Term and Title for this upcoming 7 Year Period is "The Time of Jacob's trouble" (Jer. 30:7).


The word "tribulation" occurs a total of 22 times in the King James Authorized Version.


And it is a word that means trouble or distress.


One of the definitions of the word "Tribulation" is as follows:


distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution; also : a trying experience.


That's basically what tribulation is. And every occurrence of the word "tribulation" in the Scriptures is as a description of what is taking place to a person or a group of people. It is a description of trouble, suffering and distress coming upon a certain group of people or even a person.
And out of the 22 occurrences of the word "tribulation" in the Scriptures, not one time is it a title of an event.

Now having established that fact, here is what also is important to know.


And that is, in the Scriptures there are two kinds of tribulation:


Tribulation from the lost world.


And then there is tribulation from God.



Here are some Scriptures that describe tribulation coming upon God's people from the lost world:




[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the children of Israel cried unto the Lord, saying, We have sinned against thee, both because we have forsaken our God, and also served Baalim.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Did not I deliver you from the Egyptians, and from the Amorites, from the children of Ammon, and from the Philistines?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Zidonians also, and the Amalekites, and the Maonites, did oppress you; and ye cried to me, and I delivered you out of their hand.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the children of Israel said unto the Lord, We have sinned: do thou unto us whatsoever seemeth good unto thee; deliver us only, we pray thee, this day.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the Lord: and his soul was grieved for the misery of Israel. - Judges 10:10-16 (King James Bible)

So, the tribulation that the Children of Israel was going through was the oppression which was coming on them from the Egyptians, Amorites, the Children of Ammon, the Philistines, the Zidonians, the Amalekites, and from the Maonites. In this passage, the term "tribulation" is being defined. It was basically the oppression that was coming upon the children of Israel from these different peoples and nations. A lot of times, the tribulation that either a group of people faces or just a person goes through is the simple result of sin and rebellion. As was the case here for the children of Israel.

Matt 24 is in chronological order. This is some key points in the chapter that happen in the order it was written. That's just the way it is and if you don't like it, that's just too bad.

1. Destruction of the temple in 70 AD
2. Wars and rumors of wars.
3. Many false prophets will arise.
4. Abomination of Desolation occurs.
5. Next great tribulation occurs but it is shortened for the elect's sake.
6. More false christs and prophets.
7. Immediately after the tribulation, sun and moon darkened. (not literal here, it's allegorical)
8. When 7 completes itself, (unknown time frame here) Jesus returns in the clouds

The rest of the story talks about the parable of the fig tree (Israel) becoming a nation and in control of Jerusalem (referring to the putting forth leaves) that this generation of that time will see Israel once again in control by the Jewish people of which Jesus is at the door ready to return at the Father's command. When is that day? It's unknown. Could be right now or hundreds upon thousands of years from now.

Notice your great tribulation happens before the return of Jesus. Sorry. I will not buy it. Besides, I never said for you to show me a Scripture that says the word rapture. Like trinity, it isn't written. After the tribulation is! That is what you quoted for there are no other verses ANYWHERE in the Bible that has the position of Jesus coming in the clouds and we meet Him in the air that give us any suggestion that this happens before the tribulation. None whatsoever. Mark, Matt and Luke (Luke gets its help from the other two gospels) are the only verses that tell you when Jesus comes in the clouds. That happens to be after the tribulation. Positive conclusive proof. All the rest of the stuff you are saying just tells me what will happen on any given day. Take Act 1:9-11. That reference just tells me that when He does return He'll be returning in the clouds. That's all it says. It didn't say it will happen before or after anything. If there is any other return of Jesus, there will be three and the Bible only speaks of one more. That one more falls on Matt 24:29-31 and no where else. It doesn't matter if it's seen or unseen. I couldn't find a clearer verse than that one. Just for the record Matt and Mark are written in the exact same way. The order I showed you applies to mark as well. Luke is the same thing except there are a few different prophecy descriptions not found in the other two but the storyline is the same. Just has a few extra events in it. That's all.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Matt 24 is in chronological order. This is some key points in the chapter that happen in the order it was written. That's just the way it is and if you don't like it, that's just too bad.

Bistabuster, first let me correct you on something. It is not whether I like it or not. If it is the truth of Scripture, then I am to conform to that truth. My Final Authority is a Book. A perfect Book. And that Book is the King James Authorized Bible.

1. Destruction of the temple in 70 AD
2. Wars and rumors of wars.
3. Many false prophets will arise.
4. Abomination of Desolation occurs.
5. Next great tribulation occurs but it is shortened for the elect's sake.
6. More false christs and prophets.
7. Immediately after the tribulation, sun and moon darkened. (not literal here, it's allegorical)
8. When 7 completes itself, (unknown time frame here) Jesus returns in the clouds

Okay now I see what your problem may be, Bistabuster. The issue is that you are not taking the passage given in Matthew 24 literally. Well, why not? I mean what do you see in that passage that looks allegorical?

What leads you to think that those signs (Sun being darkened, moon not giving its light, and the stars falling from Heaven) are not literal?

My advice to you is take the Bible literally. Read the Bible literally. Now there are certain places that are clearly figurative. And the Bible will interpret itself as you are comparing Scripture with Scripture and rightly dividing the word of truth. When you compare Scripture with Scripture, then you can rightly discern which passages in the Bible are indeed either figurative or allegorical. But keep this in mind Bistabuster, we are to take the Bible as a whole, literally.


Today, a lot of people either spiritualize the Scriptures which is a pratice which the Roman Catholic church does a lot. Or they will just give their own definition and private interpretation to words, phrases and passages in the Scriptures; hence, when they do that, they basically ignore and miss the context and the Author's intent that is within that passage of Scripture.


Our Lord Jesus Christ took the Scriptures literally. Look at every reference where He quoted the Old Testament. And you can see that He believed in its literal interpretation.

The rest of the story talks about the parable of the fig tree (Israel) becoming a nation and in control of Jerusalem (referring to the putting forth leaves) that this generation of that time will see Israel once again in control by the Jewish people of which Jesus is at the door ready to return at the Father's command. When is that day? It's unknown. Could be right now or hundreds upon thousands of years from now.

Notice your great tribulation happens before the return of Jesus. Sorry. I will not buy it. Besides, I never said for you to show me a Scripture that says the word rapture. Like trinity, it isn't written. After the tribulation is! That is what you quoted for there are no other verses ANYWHERE in the Bible that has the position of Jesus coming in the clouds and we meet Him in the air that give us any suggestion that this happens before the tribulation. None whatsoever. Mark, Matt and Luke (Luke gets its help from the other two gospels) are the only verses that tell you when Jesus comes in the clouds. That happens to be after the tribulation. Positive conclusive proof. All the rest of the stuff you are saying just tells me what will happen on any given day. Take Act 1:9-11. That reference just tells me that when He does return He'll be returning in the clouds. That's all it says. It didn't say it will happen before or after anything. If there is any other return of Jesus, there will be three and the Bible only speaks of one more. That one more falls on Matt 24:29-31 and no where else. It doesn't matter if it's seen or unseen. I couldn't find a clearer verse than that one. Just for the record Matt and Mark are written in the exact same way. The order I showed you applies to mark as well. Luke is the same thing except there are a few different prophecy descriptions not found in the other two but the storyline is the same. Just has a few extra events in it. That's all.

Whether you want to believe it or not Bistabuster, the Scriptures teach a Pre-Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ. And they teach a Second Coming that comes immediately after the time of Jacob's trouble. Read all of Matthew 24. The context is right there within the whole passage.


Matthew, Mark and Luke are referencing the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. They are not referencing the Catching away of the Body of Christ. You have to remember Bistabuster, that the Rapture is a Mystery. Paul first described it as such in 1 Corinthians 15:51.


The Second Coming of Jesus Christ is not a mystery. How do I know that? Because there are numerous and plenty of references of the future Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Are you aware Bistabuster, that the Jews in the time of the Apostles were not expecting a suffering Saviour? They were expecting a Conquering King. Because Malachi, Joel, and Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Obadiah, Zephaniah, and Malachai all referenced the Lord's Second Advent. Do you what that means? That means that there are more references to the Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming than any other single subject. The Second Coming of Jesus Christ is mentioned over 500 times in the Old Testament. And in the New Testament, it is mentioned 318 times in 260 chapters. Furthermore, it is referenced in 1 of every 25 verses of the New Testament. Which means that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is mentioned over 800 times in the entire Bible. And that is just in direct references! That does not include the indirect references. And when looking at those numbers, we can see that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is mentioned and referenced more than 5 times as many times as any other single subject.


So, it is clear that Paul when he was describing the Rapture in 1 Corinthians 15:51, he was not referring to the Second Coming of Christ. Because the Second Coming of Jesus Christ was not and is not a mystery.


I mean, how could it be a mystery? It is mentioned more than any other single subject in the Scriptures.


And like I mentioned to you already, those signs which are given in both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are not mentioned anywhere in 1 Corinthians 15. They are not referenced once by Paul in that passage.


So it should be obvious, that Paul was talking about a different event. An event by itself that was different from the Second Coming of Christ.


And by the way Bistabuster, when is the Rapture first directly mentioned in the Scriptures? I am aware that there is a picture and type of the rapture showed in John 10. I am aware of that. But the Rapture or Translation is first clearly described in 1 Corinthians 15:51-56. And when Paul first mentions the Rapture to the Body of Christ, in the VERY first verse, he describes it as a MYSTERY. And it is indeed a mystery.


Also notice that the Translation or catching away of the Body of Christ is not mentioned anywhere in Revelation 19 or Chapter 20, why not?


Because the Catching away of the Body of Christ (Or the Rapture) is NOT the same event as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. They are two different events. One event is a myestery (the Pre-trib. Rapture) and the other event is not a mystery (The Second Advent or Second Coming of Jesus Christ).


At the Rapture, Jesus appears in the clouds and we meet Him in the air, in our new glorified bodies! Then afterward, the Judgment Seat of Christ.


Then at the end of the time of Jacob's trouble, we come back with Jesus riding upon white horses, and clothed in white linen.



[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. -Revelation 19:7-21 (King James Bible)

This passage Bistabuster, is NOT AT ALL referring to the Rapture. It is referring to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and also the results of His Second Coming.

The one thing you have to understand is that the Rapture and Second Coming are NOT the same event. The Rapture is a mystery. And the Second Coming of Christ is clearly not a mystery.

You have got to compare Scripture with Scripture and you have to rightly divide the word of truth.