PreTrib Rapture Moment 5: What Does Catholicism Teach? - Teaching by Bryan Denlinger

[peterT]

I can't for the life of me figure out where people get that the rapture is bible doctrine. Trust me when I say I have read the bible and men's books. The rapture doctrine is a tool of satan used to decieve Christians. It has been preached for over a century now but I challenge anyone to find a sermon from before 1850 where anything about a rapture or a secret coming was ever preached, even once. It is a lie and many have been deceived by it. The Word is very clear many times over about when Christ will return. One question I would love to ask. What if ? What if you find that you were wrong? You find yourself being forced to stand up for your faith with your life? You have to suffer hard times because you refuse to follow the world and can no longer work or support your family? Will you then lose your faith because you believe The Lord has forsaken you and didn't come for you. Satan is hoping that's exactly what you believe. Don't think we are above hardship or even above being beaten and thrown into prison for our faith. It is happening all over the world right now. Are we better. The tribulation has two purposes. To punish the wicked and to chasten the church. God will find out where your faith really is when we have to decide to follow him or take the easy way out an follow the world. People need to wake up and realize what we will face in the coming years. God will protect us and give us strength to overcome but he will not take us away.

NO, To say there is no rapture is a tool of Satan used to deceive Christians

NO rapture?

No word rapture, but there is defiantly an event were we will meet the lord in the air in the clouds.

And you don’t get to meet the lord in the air in the clouds by jumping up,

You don’t get to stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark by jumping up,

You don’t get to go before the throne of God, AFTER coming out of great tribulation and serve him day and night in his temple by jumping up,

You don’t get to be redeemed from the earth, by jumping up, or catching a Taxi or train.

Yes there is some kind of rapture, but no word rapture in the Bible, but there is the event.

But you can mock the rapture if you like.

Rv7:.13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

NO rapture?

No word rapture, but there is defiantly an event were we will meet the lord in the air in the clouds.

And the dead in Christ shall rise first at the last trumpet, the two dead witnesses are raised in the clouds at the last trumpet, they ascended up to heaven in a cloud, and they which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord I the clouds.

The dead rise first

 

[peterT]

Ugh....
Here we go again! No 3.5 years. I don't care how much you like it, It's not gonna happen. Of coarse, if you want to believe in it and call it Scripture when it's not, go for it.

Sorry bro but it says what it says

Unless you wont to turn 3 ½ years into 3500 years using the day as a year principle?

Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation.

That would make the tribulation 3 ½ years.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Plus, the devil is cast out and persecuted the woman and the woman fled into the wilderness for 3 ½ years.

Plus, he had power to continue 42 months and power was given him over kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

42 monthes is 3 ½ years

time, and times, and half a time is 3 ½ years.

The great tribulation is for 3 ½ years, according to Daniel, Jesus , and john. NOT SEVEN.

Rv13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rv12:13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

3 ½ years

 

[peterT]

No 3.5 years. I don't care how much you like it, It's not gonna happen. .

I would like to see you teach a word of that from scripture

 

[zone]

That’s all guesswork, Peter. I’m not surprised though for the bible does not teach a post-tribulation rapture. It’s a fable! Unbelievers won't enter the millennium but will be destroyed, so that excludes the ‘Foolish Virgins’ idea, those who survive the wrath of God, and those who take the mark of the beast. As per post-tribulation rapture, ALL believers will be raptured at the second coming of Christ after the tribulation to put on glorified bodies therefore no one will populate the millennium with natural bodies to procreate, therefore we have a BIG problem.

dispensationalists certainly have a big problem.
considering there's no future millennium.

Whereas pre-tribulation rapture solves this in that tribulation saints will enter the millennium with natural bodies to populate it since they missed the rapture at the close of the church-age.

what's a tribulation saint?
what makes a tribulation saint any different from a regular saint?
how does one become a saint during the tribulation?

what's the church age?

 

[zone]

Again, who actually populates the millennium if we’ll have a post-tribulation rapture?

that's what i'd like to know.
from anyone who teaches a millennium.

who populates it?
how are people saved?
what's it for?

seriously...it's getting comical.

 

[SarahM777]

Can someone answer this please What would be the purpose of rebuilding the temple? Where did Jesus say would be another one? Help me please I can't find it. Can someone show me please? (because all of this is predicated on the temple being rebuilt) Thanks.

 

[zone]

There's no Millennium? So let me get this straight, you are denying the 1,000 year literal reign of the Lord Jesus Christ?

How could you come to such an illogical and unbiblical position?

Oh I think I know why Zone. You are not dispensational. Therefore you cannot even begin to understand Bible Prophecy.

okay.

People that are not dispensational like you, PeterT, and Bistabuster,

peter is dispensational.
he just rejects the pretrib part.

Bitabuster has his own thing going on....bizarre as it is, it's Ellis Scolfield's own dispensationalesque creature.

People that are not dispensational like you, PeterT, and Bistabuster start coming to Unbiblical positions like the post trib rapture theory

theory?
first of all, what tribulation?

second of all, at the Last Day we shall be changed. that's Biblical.
so dunno whatchu talkin' bout.

then the next Biblical Doctrine that you all deny from there on is Eternal Security

i totally believe in eternal security - as long as we abide in Christ.

because you know that the does not mix well with your post trib rapture theory,

i don't have a post-trib rapture theory.

and pretty soon a lot of you people who are non dispensational sooner or later become Amillennial.

i'm already amillennial.

Which means you outright deny the Biblical Doctrine of the pre-Millennial Reign Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

pre-millennial reign?
i thought it was a millennial reign

it's not Biblical.
He is reigning NOW.

then comes THE END.

Here are Scriptures that clearly show a Literal 1,000 year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ:

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, - Revelation 20:1-7 (King James Bible)

ya i know that tiny chapter.
i know what you folks have done with it.
can't do much for ya at this time...seriously, if you are really serious about the KJV, it's the bible that can pull you out of the dispensational thing.

you'd have to want to consider it though.
i see you're very firmly in your camp. and that's fine.

So what you did was totally over look that portion of Scripture. You had to for you to make such a statement that is entirely contrary to the word of God.

no, it's actually the other way around.
dispensationalists "took over" that tiny parenthetical chapter and injected the Talmudic Judaic fable of a coming age.
they missed the Messianic Age (now).

and so have you. you had to call this age a "church age" or Plan B.
works for the Talmudists.

but....people gon do what they gon do.

Now whether you believe it nor not,
the Lord Jesus Christ will rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. And He is going to rule the nations with a Rod of Iron.

no, He won't.
fable. He is ruling now.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. - Revelation 2:27 (King James Bible)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. - Revelation 12:5 (King James Bible)

uh....didn't ya just post the truth? ^^^^^

where is Jesus now? on His throne

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. - Revelation 19:15 (King James Bible)

do you know what this is about?
if it's the wrath you're so terrified of that you invented a secret removal 7 years before this happens, don't you trust God?
do you think He can't aim His wrath at the right people?

did He rapture the israelites out of egypt before the death angel came?
no, they were not harmed - doesn't He know His people?
come on....i dunno.

your system is such a quagmire....i can't see how you can untangle yourself from it short of a Divine Intervention.

some come out of it, though. it takes a long time.

Chosen really consider finding:

THE INCREDIBLE SCOFIELD by Joseph M. Canfield

(free online too)....take some time out and read it.

be set free!

 

[ChosenbyHim]

okay.



peter is dispensational.
he just rejects the pretrib part.

Bitabuster has his own thing going on....bizarre as it is, it's Ellis Scolfield's own dispensationalesque creature.

theory?
first of all, what tribulation?

Well it is not really called "the Tribulation." It is referred to in the Scriptures as the time of Jacob's trouble:


[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. - Jeremiah 30:7 (King James Bible)

It is also referred to as Daniel's Seventieth week:

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. - Daniel 9:24-27 (King James Bible)

second of all, at the Last Day we shall be changed. that's Biblical.
so dunno whatchu talkin' bout.

At the Last Day? Chapter and Verse, please? Where does it in the Scriptures?

We shall all be changed at the Rapture which takes place right before the time of Jacob's trouble. Now that's Biblical. So I know what I am talking about.


But I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "Last Day we shall be changed." I don't see "Last Day" being referred to the Rapture in the Scriptures.

i totally believe in eternal security - as long as we abide in Christ.

Do you believe in condition eternal security? I believe in unconditional Eternal Security because we are in the Body of Christ, and you cannot fall out of the Body of Christ.

Now I also believe that we should abide in Christ Jesus.

i don't have a post-trib rapture theory.

Oh yes you do. If you stand for and defend the post trib. rapture theory, then that's what you believe. Even though the post trib rapture theory is not supported at all in the Scriptures.

i'm already amillennial.

You're already amillennial? Huh? Well yea I know you are Amillennial. A person who is an amillennialist is one who denies the physical literal 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ.


Now if you believe that we are in the Millennium now, boy are you wrong. Last time I checked, the Scriptures describe the Millennial Reign as a time of peace, true peace.


[SUP]2 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord. - Isaiah 2:2-5 (King James Bible)

pre-millennial reign?
i thought it was a millennial reign

Well yeah it is a Millennial Reign. But we Bible believers also call it the Pre-Millennial Reign because we believe that Jesus Christ will physically rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years just as the Holy Scriptures teach. The Very term: Premillennialism means the belief that Jesus Christ will literally and physically be on the earth for His Millennial Reign at His Second Coming.

it's not Biblical.
He is reigning NOW.

then comes THE END.

It is Biblical. GO and read Revelation 20. Go and read all of it.
Right now Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father. But in the 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom and Reign, Jesus Christ will be physically on theis Earth and He will be ruling the Nations with a rod of Iron. And also Zone, during the 1,000 year literal Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, Satan will be bound in the Bottomless pit. Right now, Satan is not bound. Satan is on this earth now, in fact he is the god of this world.


[SUP]3 [/SUP]But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. - 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 (King James Bible)

Again Zone, right now the devil is on the earth, and he has blinded the minds of them which are lost. But at the Second Advent of our Lord Jesus Christ, an Angel will come down with the key to the Bottomless Pit and that angel will cast Satan into the bottomless pit and Satan will be bound for a thousand years. And during all that time as Satan is bound in the Bottomless Pit, the Lord Jesus Christ will be physically ruling and reigning from Jerusalem.

ya i know that tiny chapter.
i know what you folks have done with it.
can't do much for ya at this time...seriously, if you are really serious about the KJV, it's the bible that can pull you out of the dispensational thing.

Well if you know the Chapter Zone, why don't you believe what it says? Why don't you just accept what it says in the Chapter? Keep your wicked private interpretation out of it. And simply allow the Beautiful Holy Scriptures to interpret themselves.

you'd have to want to consider it though.
i see you're very firmly in your camp. and that's fine.

Well yes I am zone, because I have been taught and assured of these things. I have been assured of these Biblical truths that are in the Holy Scriptures.

no, it's actually the other way around.
dispensationalists "took over" that tiny parenthetical chapter and injected the Talmudic Judaic fable of a coming age.
they missed the Messianic Age (now).

No they did not Zone. What Dispensationalists like myself do is we simply compare Scripture with Scripture. The King James Bible does teach a Physical Messianic Reign by the Lord Jesus Christ on this Earth for 1,000 years. It's that clear Zone. It is just astonishing that you could overlook this vital truth in the Scriptures.

and so have you. you had to call this age a "church age" or Plan B.
works for the Talmudists.

but....people gon do what they gon do.

Zone, I have never even set my eyes on a document or a written form called the Talmud. Now I have heard of it. I have heard it referenced several times by a couple of preachers. Preachers that were rightfully exposing the dangerous Hebrew Roots and Sacred Name Movement. But other than that, I have never read through a document or a manual called the Talmud.


What I do is simply read and study the Scriptures and I compare Scripture with Scripture.

no, He won't.
fable. He is ruling now.

[SUB]
Yes HE WILL. He will indeed rule and reign for 1,000 years on this Earth. At His Second Coming after He has destroyed the UN and all the wicked nations, He will then set up His Messianic Millennial Kingdom on this Earth in Jerusalem.
[/SUB]
The Millennial Reign is not a fable. It is a Solid Biblical Truth Based and Founded on the Holy Scriptures. It is a Solid truth in the word of God.

uh....didn't ya just post the truth? ^^^^^

where is Jesus now? on His throne

Jesus right now is in the Third Heaven with His Father and He is seated at the Right Hand of the Father making intercession for us.


[SUP]33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. - Romans 8:33-34 (King James Bible)

do you know what this is about?
if it's the wrath you're so terrified of that you invented a secret removal 7 years before this happens, don't you trust God?
do you think He can't aim His wrath at the right people?

Zone, you clearly do not the know the Scriptures. The Scriptures always teach that God removes the Righteous before He pours out His wrath on the wicked. Read the account of Noah and the Flood. Read the account of Lot and the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah. Read the account of Enoch as he was translated because he please God.


We are not appointed to God's wrath. It's that simple Zone. Stop complicating it. The Body of Christ is not going to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. The time of Jacob's trouble is for unbelieving Israel. It is to bring Israel into correction, that's the purpose of the time of Jacob's trouble. The Body of Christ will be removed from this earth before the time of Jacob's trouble starts.


Of course I trust God. I trust and believe in His promise to remove us from this earth before He pours out His wrath on this wicked and lost world. And Zone, don't you trust God? He is not going to allow His children whom He loves very much to go through His wrath.


I mean think about what you are saying. Why would you think that God would pour out His wrath on the Body of Christ? He is not. He is going to pour out His wrath on this wicked, Christ rejecting world. That's the truth. God is going to remove the Body of Christ before He pours out His Judgment and Wrath upon the Earth. Again, The Body of Christ will not be going through the time Jacob's trouble. We are not appointed to God's wrath:


[SUP]9 [/SUP]For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. - 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 (King James Bible)

did He rapture the israelites out of egypt before the death angel came?

no, they were not harmed - doesn't He know His people?
come on....i dunno.

Well yes He knows His people. But in each Dispensation, God works in different ways. He is the Same God, He never changes. But God does work and deal with mankind in different ways within each dispensation. He is God, He can do whatever pleases Him to do.

your system is such a quagmire....i can't see how you can untangle yourself from it short of a Divine Intervention.

some come out of it, though. it takes a long time.

Zone, it's not my system. Dispensational Bible Study is God's internal Method of Bible Study. That's just the way it is. God commanded us to study, to work, and to rightly divide the word of truth. Read 2 Timothy 2:15.


Your issue is not with my system Zone. Your issue is really with God. And His Internal Method of Bible Study.


[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Bible)

Chosen really consider finding:

THE INCREDIBLE SCOFIELD by Joseph M. Canfield

(free online too)....take some time out and read it.

be set free!

Zone, Dispensational Bible teaching and Study was around even in the 3rd and fourth centuries. It is not some recent invention that you guys like to claim it is. It is not. Dispensational Bible Study and Teaching has been around for centuries.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Can someone answer this please What would be the purpose of rebuilding the temple? Where did Jesus say would be another one? Help me please I can't find it. Can someone show me please? (because all of this is predicated on the temple being rebuilt) Thanks.

Hello there Sarah, I think this video may help answer your question a little. Check it out. Shalom and God bless.



The Tribulation Temple

[video=youtube;QGYMvX1O7pM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGYMvX1O7pM[/video]

 

[Bistabuster]

There's no Millennium? So let me get this straight, you are denying the 1,000 year literal reign of the Lord Jesus Christ?

How could you come to such an illogical and unbiblical position?

Oh I think I know why Zone. You are not dispensational. Therefore you cannot even begin to understand Bible Prophecy.

People that are not dispensational like you, PeterT, and Bistabuster, start coming to Unbiblical positions like the post trib rapture theory, then the next Biblical Doctrine that you all deny from there on is Eternal Security because you know that the does not mix well with your post trib rapture theory, and pretty soon a lot of you people who are non dispensational sooner or later become Amillennial. Which means you outright deny the Biblical Doctrine of the pre-Millennial Reign Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here are Scriptures that clearly show a Literal 1,000 year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ:

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, - Revelation 20:1-7 (King James Bible)

So what you did was totally over look that portion of Scripture. You had to for you to make such a statement that is entirely contrary to the word of God.

Now whether you believe it nor not,

the Lord Jesus Christ will rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. And He is going to rule the nations with a Rod of Iron.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. - Revelation 2:27 (King James Bible)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. - Revelation 12:5 (King James Bible)


[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. - Revelation 19:15 (King James Bible)

This isn't illogical. Are you saying that Jesus at any point of time will NEVER be returning after the tribulation? Are you saying that event doesn't exist?

 

[Bistabuster]

Show me in the bible were it say Seven-year tribulation.

Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation.

That would make the tribulation 3 ½ years.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Plus, the devil is cast out and persecuted the woman and the woman fled into the wilderness for 3 ½ years.

Plus, he had power to continue 42 months and power was given him over kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

42 monthes is 3 ½ years

time, and times, and half a time is 3 ½ years.

The great tribulation is for 3 ½ years, according to Daniel, Jesus , and john. NOT SEVEN.

Rv13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rv12:13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Now, that is out of context. When you shall see the abomination of desolation, you are to flee into the mountains. This is pertaining to the Jewish people. Since the Babylonian 70 year captivity up until 1967, the Jews NEVER had control of Jerusalem. The Jews fled Jerusalem yet again when the Dome of the Rock was built around 688 AD. That is historical. It was not the great tribulation. That too is only for the Jews. What's the most horrible thing that has ever happened to the Jews in all of history? Was it the 70 year captivity? No. They were treated well. What was it? Hint. Dan 12:1-3 might give you a clue.

 

[zone]

Well it is not really called "the Tribulation." It is referred to in the Scriptures as the time of Jacob's trouble:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. - Jeremiah 30:7 (King James Bible)

It is also referred to as Daniel's Seventieth week:

[SUP]24[/SUP]Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. - Daniel 9:24-27 (King James Bible)

FULFILLED


if it isn't you are not saved.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. < JESUS SUFFERING DYING AND RISING FROM THE GRAVE < Atonement accomplished and Accepted.

Seventy weeks = 70 YEARS.

DONE.

At the Last Day? Chapter and Verse, please? Where does it in the Scriptures?
We shall all be changed at the Rapture which takes place right before the time of Jacob's trouble. Now that's Biblical. So I know what I am talking about.

bah....

But I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "Last Day we shall be changed." I don't see "Last Day" being referred to the Rapture in the Scriptures.

ya i know...because you have the PERVERSION of a 'pretrib rapture' in there where there is NONE.

1 Corinthians 15
Mystery and Victory
50I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.



so, play games with extra trumpets...i don't care.
it's stupid.
it's childish.
it's NOT in scripture.

<snip nonsense irrationality>

You're already amillennial? Huh? Well yea I know you are Amillennial. A person who is an amillennialist is one who denies the physical literal 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ.

uh...ya.

Now if you believe that we are in the Millennium now, boy are you wrong. Last time I checked, the Scriptures describe the Millennial Reign as a time of peace, true peace.

post all those passages.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

can't help it if you don't have peace.
if you think the world world gets crushed into submission by an iron rod...is that true Peace as Jesus gives?
or is that something else?

your version of who goes into the so-called millennium is as clear as mud anyways.

sorry you don't understand the Book of Revelation.
there's lots of help for that.

but you appear to want a red dragon and a bottomless pit to make sense.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord. - Isaiah 2:2-5 (King James Bible)

Well yeah it is a Millennial Reign. But we Bible believers also call it the Pre-Millennial Reign because we believe that Jesus Christ will physically rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years just as the Holy Scriptures teach. The Very term: Premillennialism means the belief that Jesus Christ will literally and physically be on the earth for His Millennial Reign at His Second Coming.

i keep posting on what JESUS taught about Ages.

He taught TWO. do you care what He taught?
he NEVER taught a future temporary earth 1,000 interim unknown mystery rule. EVER.

This world (Messianic - Salvation) and the World to Come (eternity) - that's what HE TAUGHT.

maybe someday you'll look at what HE SAID...not all those videos you watch and those extra-biblical fables that are NOT in there:

The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith ; In the last days perilous times shall come : There shall come at the end of the days scoffers : They told you that there should be mockers in the last time. The Jews distributed all time between "this world" and "the coming world" , including under "the coming world" the time of grace under the Messiah's reign, and the future glory.

To us the names have shifted, since this present world Matthew 13:40; Ephesians 1:21; Titus 2:12 is to us the kingdom of Christ, and there remains nothing further on this earth to look to, beyond what God has already given us. Our future then, placed as we are between the two Comings of our Lord, is, of necessity, beyond this world .
Barnes

okay?

They Passed over the Messianic Age because they rejected Jesus as Messiah.
they are still waiting for another Age.

and you are eating from their tree.



......


read all of Revelation - many times over 13 years.
not ONE time did it ever spell out a millnenial reign in our future.

anybody with any patience at all can just sit and read that teeny little passge upon which your GIANT THEOLOGICAL HOUSE OF CARDS IS BUILT and see it does NOT teach a furture 1,000 years.

1,000 is a SYMBOLIC NUMBER.

bye now

 

[ChosenbyHim]

This isn't illogical. Are you saying that Jesus at any point of time will NEVER be returning after the tribulation? Are you saying that event doesn't exist?

Bistabuster, what Zone did was and is very Illogical and unbiblical. And that was she denied the literal 1,000 year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ. And let me tell you and assure you all something and that is that Jesus Christ WILL Rule and Reign physically on this Earth for 1,000 years after the time of Jacob's trouble is over. He is going to rule the nations with a rod of iron. And whether Zone wants to believe it or not. It is going to happen. It is a very, very important part of Bible Prophecy.

 

[peterT]

It is sound Bible Doctrine. You need to study the Scriptures more. Check out some sermons by Brother Bryan Denlinger on this matter.


Peter, the five foolish virgins in that parable were examples of people who never got saved. That's why they are called foolish. So, no, if anything, those people will be cast into the Lake of Fire. So that disqualifies them.

Who's the "them" that survive the wrath of God? I thought you implied that all Christians were going to be rapture up at the end of the tribulation. So who is the "Them"?

Again, who is the "Them" that you are referring to?

So basically what you are saying is that there are three types of people that go through the Tribulation? The people who take the mark, the Christians, and the people who do not take the mark?

Or are you implying that not all Christians will go up in the rapture? Are you implying that some Christians will be left out in regard to the Rapture?

If that is what you are implying, where is that in the Scripture? Chapter and verse, please?

Last time I checked, Paul said that we shall "ALL" be changed.

Matt7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Foolish virgins so called Christians left behind in the rapture. So called Christians in name only

The same principles that you preach I can preach.

According to you, there is repentance after the rapture.

According to you, not all take the mark of the beast.

According to you, People survive the wrath of God.

These same principles I also can preach. That is who we rule over with Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

 

[peterT]

. Check out some sermons by Brother Bryan Denlinger on this matter.

.

Brother Bryan Denlinger if a fake

Bit by bit I will take a leaf of the word of the Lord to Jeremiah.

to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

Bit by bit until Brother Bryan Denlinger is exposed as the false prophet he is

 

[jb]

Brother Bryan Denlinger if a fake...

I thought there was a famous sheriff or cowboy with such a name...or maybe he's just a bit of a 'cowboy'!

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Brother Bryan Denlinger if a fake

Bit by bit I will take a leaf of the word of the Lord to Jeremiah.

to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

Bit by bit until Brother Bryan Denlinger is exposed as the false prophet he is

Oh no Peter, you are seriously wrong. Brother Bryan Denlinger is a true Bible believer. He stands against the corrupt modern translations, he stands against the modern churches which have conformed to the world. He is a really good teacher of the word. I highly recommend you listen to some of his sermons and teachings, you could learn a lot from his teachings.

 

[peterT]

Now, that is out of context. When you shall see the abomination of desolation, you are to flee into the mountains. This is pertaining to the Jewish people. Since the Babylonian 70 year captivity up until 1967, the Jews NEVER had control of Jerusalem. The Jews fled Jerusalem yet again when the Dome of the Rock was built around 688 AD. That is historical. It was not the great tribulation. That too is only for the Jews. What's the most horrible thing that has ever happened to the Jews in all of history? Was it the 70 year captivity? No. They were treated well. What was it? Hint. Dan 12:1-3 might give you a clue.

Is that you copying and pasting for ellis scoffers website again.

Straight from his PDF files

You do know he flees when the going gets tuff, and gets you to do his work.

I think that might make him hireling

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

 

[zone]

Bistabuster, what Zone did was and is very Illogical and unbiblical. And that was she denied the literal 1,000 year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ. And let me tell you and assure you all something and that is that Jesus Christ WILL Rule and Reign physically on this Earth for 1,000 years after the time of Jacob's trouble is over. He is going to rule the nations with a rod of iron. And whether Zone wants to believe it or not. It is going to happen. It is a very, very important part of Bible Prophecy.

ridiculous, and bordering on blasphemy.
once again, you people refuse to give God the Glory for what He accomplished to the letter in the past, for Israel (including judgment on harlot israel).
and you replacement theologians replace Christ with the devil.

tremble, you who do this.

(not to mention if Daniel 9 isn't fulfilled y'all ain't saved.)
duh.

 

[zone]

It is a very, very important part of Bible Prophecy.

tell me all about the millennium Chosen.

be as detailed as possible.
start with the church already gone....what happens next?
thanks.