PreTrib Rapture Moment 5: What Does Catholicism Teach? - Teaching by Bryan Denlinger

[peterT]

You have asked a good question.
It poses a significant problem to the post-tribulation rapture theory.

The five foolish virgins for a start
And them that survive the wrath of God.
And them that don’t go to the battle of that great day God almighty at Armageddon.
And those that didn’t take the mark of the beast and survived the wrath of God.
And God knows who else

 

[peterT]

Thanks Starfield.

And yeah, I am just waiting to see how Peter is going to answer this question.

After all, at the Glorious Second Coming of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, there must be men and women with reproductive organs left on the Earth who will be allowed entrance into the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. It is a prerequisite indeed if the Millennial Kingdom is to be populated.

The five foolish virgins for a start
And them that survive the wrath of God.
And them that don’t go to the battle of that great day god almighty at Armageddon.
And those that didn’t take the mark of the beast and survived the wrath of God.
And God knows who else

 

[peterT]

Thanks Starfield.

And yeah, I am just waiting to see how Peter is going to answer this question.

After all, at the Glorious Second Coming of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, there must be men and women with reproductive organs left on the Earth who will be allowed entrance into the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. It is a prerequisite indeed if the Millennial Kingdom is to be populated.

Have you got anything else besides

“he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way”. As a pre-trib rapture

Have you got anything else, another verse that specifics were Jesus comes before the tribulation

Can you show a verse were we are raptured before the tribulation.

And I don’t mean the rapture verses themselves, as the rapture verses don’t specifics a pre-trib coming

So have you got anything else? Another verse were we are removed before the tribulation ?

It specifics in Matt 24 Jesus comes 29Immediately after the tribulation in the clouds at a sound of a trumpet and the angels gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other end of the earth

Can you show something like that BUT before the tribulation? Were we are removed or gathered by the angels before the tribulation.

 

[starfield]

The five foolish virgins for a start
And them that survive the wrath of God.
And them that don’t go to the battle of that great day god almighty at Armageddon.
And those that didn’t take the mark of the beast and survived the wrath of God.
And God knows who else

That’s all guesswork, Peter. I’m not surprised though for the bible does not teach a post-tribulation rapture. It’s a fable! Unbelievers won't enter the millennium but will be destroyed, so that excludes the ‘Foolish Virgins’ idea, those who survive the wrath of God, and those who take the mark of the beast. As per post-tribulation rapture, ALL believers will be raptured at the second coming of Christ after the tribulation to put on glorified bodies therefore no one will populate the millennium with natural bodies to procreate, therefore we have a BIG problem.
Whereas pre-tribulation rapture solves this in that tribulation saints will enter the millennium with natural bodies to populate it since they missed the rapture at the close of the church-age.

 

[starfield]

Have you got anything else besides

“he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way”. As a pre-trib rapture

Have you got anything else, another verse that specifics were Jesus comes before the tribulation

Can you show a verse were we are raptured before the tribulation.

And I don’t mean the rapture verses themselves, as the rapture verses don’t specifics a pre-trib coming

So have you got anything else? Another verse were we are removed before the tribulation ?

It specifics in Matt 24 Jesus comes 29Immediately after the tribulation in the clouds at a sound of a trumpet and the angels gather the elect from one end of heaven to the other end of the earth

Can you show something like that BUT before the tribulation? Were we are removed or gathered by the angels before the tribulation.

Again, who actually populates the millennium if we’ll have a post-tribulation rapture?

Can you show passages that indicate believers will be “Caught up” in the air to meet Christ after the tribulation?

 

[peterT]

Again, who actually populates the millennium if we’ll have a post-tribulation rapture?

Can you show passages that indicate believers will be “Caught up” in the air to meet Christ after the tribulation?

yes.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

 

[peterT]

That’s all guesswork, Peter. I’m not surprised though for the bible does not teach a post-tribulation rapture. It’s a fable! Unbelievers won't enter the millennium but will be destroyed, so that excludes the ‘Foolish Virgins’ idea, those who survive the wrath of God, and those who take the mark of the beast. As per post-tribulation rapture, ALL believers will be raptured at the second coming of Christ after the tribulation to put on glorified bodies therefore no one will populate the millennium with natural bodies to procreate, therefore we have a BIG problem.
Whereas pre-tribulation rapture solves this in that tribulation saints will enter the millennium with natural bodies to populate it since they missed the rapture at the close of the church-age.

Don’t know what you are saying here exactly

Are not the five foolish virgins left behind in natural bodies

Are not the people that survive the wrath of God left behind in natural bodies

Are not the people that are not Christians that don’t take the mark of the beast, behind in natural bodies?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

there's no future millennium.
why not spend your time on things that actually exist in scripture?

There's no Millennium? So let me get this straight, you are denying the 1,000 year literal reign of the Lord Jesus Christ?

How could you come to such an illogical and unbiblical position?

Oh I think I know why Zone. You are not dispensational. Therefore you cannot even begin to understand Bible Prophecy.

People that are not dispensational like you, PeterT, and Bistabuster, start coming to Unbiblical positions like the post trib rapture theory, then the next Biblical Doctrine that you all deny from there on is Eternal Security because you know that the does not mix well with your post trib rapture theory, and pretty soon a lot of you people who are non dispensational sooner or later become Amillennial. Which means you outright deny the Biblical Doctrine of the pre-Millennial Reign Of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here are Scriptures that clearly show a Literal 1,000 year Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ:

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, - Revelation 20:1-7 (King James Bible)

So what you did was totally over look that portion of Scripture. You had to for you to make such a statement that is entirely contrary to the word of God.

Now whether you believe it nor not,

the Lord Jesus Christ will rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. And He is going to rule the nations with a Rod of Iron.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. - Revelation 2:27 (King James Bible)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. - Revelation 12:5 (King James Bible)


[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. - Revelation 19:15 (King James Bible)

 

[peterT]

Again, who actually populates the millennium if we’ll have a post-tribulation rapture?

Can you show passages that indicate believers will be “Caught up” in the air to meet Christ after the tribulation?

Can I ask you a question "starfield" if you don’t mind?

"ChosenbyHim" says the rapture happens 7 years before Jesus returns to rule and rain for the 1000 years, according to him, Which is 3 ½ years before the tribulation even starts,

What is you take on that? Are you of the same opinion that it is 7 years before the rule and rain for the 1000 with Christ?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

give it up Chosen.
pretrib just is.....not....in....scripture.
you're reading extra junk to proof it.

it's ERROR.

ditch it.

The Pre-Trib Rapture teaching is in the King James Holy Bible. It is in there Zone. But you have to rightly divide the word of truth as 2 Timothy 2:15 commands.

You cannot go through out the Bible and take verses out of context. You need to recognize that there are divisions in the Bible. Natural Divisions. And you need to acknowledge the different Dispensations which are in the Scriptures.

And no Zone, it is not error. The Pre-Trib Rapture of the Body of Christ is Biblical. It is sound Bible Doctrine.

The Post trib rapture theory is a made up theory. It is not supported in the Holy Scriptures at all.

To be a Post tribber, you have to steal things from the Jews, you have to steal promises given to Israel.

So stop believing the lie of the post trib theory.

And Just believe what the Bible teaches about the Rapture. And the Bible teaches a Pre-Trib Rapture of the Body of Christ.

 

[peterT]

The Pre-Trib Rapture teaching is in the King James Holy Bible.
.

The Pre-Trib Rapture of the Body of Christ is Biblical. It is sound Bible Doctrine.

.

How is It sound Bible Doctrine

If that’s all you have got?

“he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way”.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

How is It sound Bible Doctrine

If that’s all you have got?

“he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way”.

It is sound Bible Doctrine. You need to study the Scriptures more. Check out some sermons by Brother Bryan Denlinger on this matter.

The five foolish virgins for a start
And them that survive the wrath of God.
And them that don’t go to the battle of that great day god almighty at Armageddon.
And those that didn’t take the mark of the beast and survived the wrath of God.
And God knows who else

Peter, the five foolish virgins in that parable were examples of people who never got saved. That's why they are called foolish. So, no, if anything, those people will be cast into the Lake of Fire. So that disqualifies them.

Who's the "them" that survive the wrath of God? I thought you implied that all Christians were going to be rapture up at the end of the tribulation. So who is the "Them"?

Again, who is the "Them" that you are referring to?

So basically what you are saying is that there are three types of people that go through the Tribulation? The people who take the mark, the Christians, and the people who do not take the mark?

Or are you implying that not all Christians will go up in the rapture? Are you implying that some Christians will be left out in regard to the Rapture?

If that is what you are implying, where is that in the Scripture? Chapter and verse, please?

Last time I checked, Paul said that we shall "ALL" be changed.

 

[starfield]

Don’t know what you are saying here exactly

Are not the five foolish virgins left behind in natural bodies

Are not the people that survive the wrath of God left behind in natural bodies

Are not the people that are not Christians that don’t take the mark of the beast, behind in natural bodies?

1. So unbelievers will survive the wrath and enter the millennial kingdom? Can you provide passages supporting this?

2. Could you please show me where in this passage indicates that the foolish virgins enter the millennial kingdom?
Matt 25:1-13
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

3. When will the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and Judgment Seat of Christ occur if we'll have a post-tribulation rapture?

 

[starfield]

Can I ask you a question "starfield" if you don’t mind?

"ChosenbyHim" says the rapture happens 7 years before Jesus returns to rule and rain for the 1000 years, according to him, Which is 3 ½ years before the tribulation even starts,

What is you take on that? Are you of the same opinion that it is 7 years before the rule and rain for the 1000 with Christ?

Definitely. It's Rapture --> Seven-year tribulation --> Second coming of Christ --> Millennium.

 

[peterT]

It is sound Bible Doctrine. You need to study the Scriptures more. Check out some sermons by Brother Bryan Denlinger on this matter.

Peter, the five foolish virgins in that parable were examples of people who never got saved. That's why they are called foolish. So, no, if anything, those people will be cast into the Lake of Fire. So that disqualifies them.

Who's the "them" that survive the wrath of God? I thought you implied that all Christians were going to be rapture up at the end of the tribulation. So who is the "Them"?

Again, who is the "Them" that you are referring to?

So basically what you are saying is that there are three types of people that go through the Tribulation? The people who take the mark, the Christians, and the people who do not take the mark?

Or are you implying that not all Christians will go up in the rapture? Are you implying that some Christians will be left out in regard to the Rapture?

If that is what you are implying, where is that in the Scripture? Chapter and verse, please?

Last time I checked, Paul said that we shall "ALL" be changed.

Yes that’s right ALL shall be changed ALL Christians that is.

And concerning the foolish virgins.

Matt25;6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Yes it’s about salvation, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

They were left behind. And the door was shut “open to us” they say. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


Can all people go to the battle at Armageddon. NO its impossible.

Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Will some people survive the wrath of God. YES, even you say some will because who are you going to rule over in their fleshly bodies, people that don’t take the mark, people that survive the wrath of God, and people that repent.

Even you say some don’t take the mark of the beast and have survived the wrath of God and you rule over them.


How many resurrections ARE THERE BROTHER.

According to you one before the 7 years

And one at the end of the seven years.


Rv7:13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Rv14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Rv15:2And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

You can’t have two resurrections in the space of 7 years.

For the last resurrection is after the 1000 years is finished.

You Have go an extra resurrection with your pre-trib theory

 

[peterT]

Definitely. It's Rapture --> Seven-year tribulation --> Second coming of Christ --> Millennium.

Show me in the bible were it say Seven-year tribulation.

Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation.

That would make the tribulation 3 ½ years.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[peterT]

Definitely. It's Rapture --> Seven-year tribulation --> Second coming of Christ --> Millennium.

Show me in the bible were it say Seven-year tribulation.

Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation.

That would make the tribulation 3 ½ years.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Plus, the devil is cast out and persecuted the woman and the woman fled into the wilderness for 3 ½ years.

Plus, he had power to continue 42 months and power was given him over kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

42 monthes is 3 ½ years

time, and times, and half a time is 3 ½ years.

The great tribulation is for 3 ½ years, according to Daniel, Jesus , and john. NOT SEVEN.

Rv13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rv12:13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

[Aubiefan]

I can't for the life of me figure out where people get that the rapture is bible doctrine. Trust me when I say I have read the bible and men's books. The rapture doctrine is a tool of satan used to decieve Christians. It has been preached for over a century now but I challenge anyone to find a sermon from before 1850 where anything about a rapture or a secret coming was ever preached, even once. It is a lie and many have been deceived by it. The Word is very clear many times over about when Christ will return. One question I would love to ask. What if ? What if you find that you were wrong? You find yourself being forced to stand up for your faith with your life? You have to suffer hard times because you refuse to follow the world and can no longer work or support your family? Will you then lose your faith because you believe The Lord has forsaken you and didn't come for you. Satan is hoping that's exactly what you believe. Don't think we are above hardship or even above being beaten and thrown into prison for our faith. It is happening all over the world right now. Are we better. The tribulation has two purposes. To punish the wicked and to chasten the church. God will find out where your faith really is when we have to decide to follow him or take the easy way out an follow the world. People need to wake up and realize what we will face in the coming years. God will protect us and give us strength to overcome but he will not take us away.

 

[Bistabuster]

Definitely. It's Rapture --> Seven-year tribulation --> Second coming of Christ --> Millennium.

I don't see this in Scripture. Sorry.

 

[Bistabuster]

Show me in the bible were it say Seven-year tribulation.

Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation.

That would make the tribulation 3 ½ years.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Ugh....
Here we go again! No 3.5 years. I don't care how much you like it, It's not gonna happen. Of coarse, if you want to believe in it and call it Scripture when it's not, go for it.