Prophets

[presidente]

Agabus operated in the gift of the word of Wisdom and word of Knowledge.

We've got two examples of what Agabus said. One is presented as a direct quote. What is your basis for calling what he said word of wisdom or word of knowledge? You must have a particular definition for these terms. He could have not really known what he was talking about before it came out of his mouth.

Two prophets went to Sinai. Does that mean all prophets went to Sinai?

Hagin!?!?! LOL wow... I dont need Hagin, and never have...., even when he was alive...the WOF movement has serious deception about a lot of things....that are not even remotely Biblical...I am not a WOF follower and never have been....I am a BIble follower....

I think your statement about a prophet operating in certain other gifts may have been from one of Hagin's books, the only actually book of his I read through. (I might have read a booklet or two just out of curiosity.) It's possible that you heard this teaching from someone who heard it from Hagin.

 

[presidente]

An Apostle is one who has actually SEEN Jesus Christ.
^i^ Responding to Post #97

The Bible doesn't actually teach that. Judas replacement had to have seen Christ. But Barnabas? Timothy? Silas? Apollos? It's not listed as a requirement to be an apostle, just one of the twelve.

 

[presidente]

DiscipleDave wrote,

You do error in not understanding that when Jesus said the Law and the prophets were until John,

'The Law and the Prophets' were the two divisions of the Old Testament. Later, Jews would refer to the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. It's like we have New Testament and Old Testament in our Bibles.

Jesus said in Matthew 23 that He would send forth prophets. Ephesians 4 tells us that Christ gave gifts unto men, including prophets. Acts shows us that there were prophets in the church. Three of them, Agabus, Judas, and Silas, are mentioned by name. Barnabas may also have been one. I Corinthians also mentions prophets in the church.

 

[Eva1218]

Not only are Prophets and Apostles still in operation today but the whole Five Fold Ministry is active meaning Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers Ephesians 4:11 also 1 Corinthians 12:28 most important we must know who we are and make sure it is what GOD called us and not man. Be aware there are false ones as well for satan tries to mimic GOD.

Blessings!!!!!!!

 

[SpiritofElijah]

Not only are Prophets and Apostles still in operation today but the whole Five Fold Ministry is active meaning Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers Ephesians 4:11 also 1 Corinthians 12:28 most important we must know who we are and make sure it is what GOD called us and not man. Be aware there are false ones as well for satan tries to mimic GOD.

Blessings!!!!!!!

Yes amen God is good

 

[sveinen]

Not only are Prophets and Apostles still in operation today but the whole Five Fold Ministry is active meaning Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers Ephesians 4:11 also 1 Corinthians 12:28 most important we must know who we are and make sure it is what GOD called us and not man. Be aware there are false ones as well for satan tries to mimic GOD.

Blessings!!!!!!!

i Go With The One Shepherd
Jesus Christ The Lord.
Mediator One!
..Jesus Christ The Lord.

 

[kennethcadwell]

i studies Hebrew and Greek a great deal. All is moot. It is the Holy Spirit of God that teaches Truths to a person studying the Word of God, Hebrew and Greek are for the Hebrews and the Greeks. KJV is for the English speaking people in the world. Those who look to the Hebrew and Greek to reveal to them Truths, miss the mark, even as i did as well. seek the Truth in prayer, and in the Holy Ghost. DO NOT seek the Truth from the Hebrew and Greek.

^i^ Responding to Post #100

I see where you are coming from on this, as people can get lost in over education.

I do believe people should study the original Greek and Hebrew but need to be careful when doing so, and need to let the Holy Spirit be the main guiding tool behind one's search for truth. Do not put much stock in other material written by men unless they completely line up with the bible.
The original Greek and Hebrew words do have multiple meanings as you mentioned, and I even on multiple times have posted the Greek words pisteuo and echo and gave their full meaning and showed how they are applied in the bible. Because I have seen a few of our brothers and sisters in Christ only using partial definitions from these words to fit and suit their understanding, which makes it contradict other scriptures in the bible on the same subject.

I still don't side with you on the whole planet thing as there is no biblical evidence for such, and the first time I even heard such talk was from the Mormons who have plenty of issues with their faith. The other thing is that there is no biblical backing on what you stated that an Apostle can only be one who has seen Jesus. Other Apostles were appointed by Peter and Paul on down the line, and no mention was made if they saw Christ or not, and they were made to be apostles after the crucifixion and resurrection.

The one thing I also have pointed out to those who put to much stock on human study tools, and even college professors teachings is that to look at the History and Discovery channels programs when they do shows about the bible. They use biblical scholars that went to college to study the bible, and they I would say are wrong or miss the mark 95% of the time.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well stop being wrong all of the time, and I won't correct you, Ken. Kidding.
Thing is, I do understand most of it. I'm happy with what I know about Revelation. I just don't teach it.

To me, You can't teach opinion.

Should anyone teach it? IDK? Remember what Revelation 22 states?
People are intimidated by it....but to me, all someone has to know is when "the fullness of the Gentiles" happened.
And who the first beast of Revelation 13 is.

The book is pretty much opened from there.

Babylon, candlesticks, olive trees, time, moon, stars, angels, living creatures, 24 elders,... etc 90%... of the symbolic images, are somewhere between Genesis and Revelation.....it is defined by the Bible itself. No need to look further than scripture.

Giant puzzle.
Like you said, scripture interprets scripture. Throughout Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, ...to Romans.
Now you can't argue that I'm giving the Bible credit for all.

You though.....?
You can tell a lot of it is old school guessing. I call you out, because your ideas sound like an old 1988 book on Revelation.
Sorry.
Ex: "Lamp stands" are defined in Revelation 1:20. They can't be a "man".
Definitions do not change in the middle of a book.

Once again though that would be wrong by your understanding and by how you either been taught or told.
There is always a little truth mixed with falsehoods in things done by others. How do you think the man of sin will fool some to follow him, because he will use a false sense of peace and security at first and then will show his true colors.

Here is another scripture that goes along with the two witnesses from prophecy messages;

[h=1]Zechariah 4:11-14[/h]11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” 12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles[a] of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”
13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”
And I said, “No, my lord.”
14 So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”

I know my standard of using scripture to interpret scripture will not be accepted by all, but this standard has been used by many and many of biblical scholars throughout the years. And it shows out to be a very effective method as you can always find and need to use all scriptures to get the full correct context. People have called me wrong before, and a few times they have been right as the topic is something I am still new at, but in a lot of other times it is because they are not well studied in that area or they only use partial passages or scriptures to suit their purpose.
That and a lot of time those who come back in response do so in their own words instead of showing biblical support, as I when I respond try to use scripture to support my view.

 

[Reborn]

I knew you would have something to come back with...... I give credit to God, you give credit to men.
You keep looking to a millions different scholars, doctors, gym teachers, the guy at McDonald's to give you (or validate) your answers to Revelation. I'm looking at the Bible for answers.
Those guys like their names written in gold, in big letters (sometimes bigger than the title) on books.

Men appeal to our logical side for interpretation of prophecy....and many stray from truth to do so.
His ways are not our ways.

All you need to understand Revelation, is the Bible, God and the Holy Spirit to guide you. 1 Cor 2 :10
Nothing else. Stop trusting anything outside your Bible Ken, men can be liars, using the Bible for their own personal gain.

See, God wants a personal relationship with you and us. By looking everywhere else for answers it takes us outside the Word....we all try to piggyback ride into knowledge, instead of just taking the walk ourselves.

God is not trying to confuse us, with a little bit knowledge of history, and JUST the Bible....we get our answers. God is awesome. Simplicity.....no matter what that junk you read teaches you.

kennethcadwell-
Zechariah 4:11-1411 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” 12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles[a] of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”

13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”
And I said, “No, my lord.”
14 So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”

Are you saying you believe what you believe over the word "ones"??
Over and over in the Bible-lamp stands and trees, are compared to the church or the state of a church.
NEVER as individual people.

Revelation 1:20, he calls them churches.... If you can not see that, and understand that the Bible DOES NOT change up the definition of nouns in the middle of a book.......I do not know how to debate you.

You jump around, and claim it's okay to do so.

 

[The_highwayman]

Scriptures teach us how you can tell a false prophet.

1) if what they say does not come to pass
and
2) if what they say contradicts Scriptures

You test them by seeing if what they say comes to pass and by what they are saying if it contradicts the Word of God.

Anyone who professes to hear from God and teach things that are contrary to Scriptures is a false prophet. This is the True way to tell a false prophet. Many false prophets can predict the future, that is to say what they say a great percentage of the time comes to pass, This is because they have the spirit of divination. But all spirits of divination have their own agenda, you can see this agenda by the words that are spoken by the one who has said spirit, their words will be contradictory to Scriptures.

^i^ Responding to Post #82

care to elaborate how the angels got you back on the path towards salvation?

 

[The_highwayman]

You would really freak out if i said it comes with your own galaxy too. It is impossible for finite minds to comprehend what God has in store for His Immortal Saints. Is it not True that in general the prophets are not believed? In general are they not killed because of what they teach? And here is something to consider also. What if God DID tell me we get our own planets to design and form as we see fit, and you just mocked me for telling you what He told me, How do you think He would react to you? He would love you anyways, despite your mocking.

Then I would say it was not God talking to you, because each Christian getting his/her own planet does not line up with scripture...But each of us becoming our own ruler of our world to form as we desire is from the devil, because the word says he is the god of this world and seeks to exalt himself above God....ANYTHING that exalts itself above GOD is a partner with the powers of darkness...By you stating we could form a world according to how we see fit takes away God...and makes us our own gods...

 

[The_highwayman]

DiscipleDave said



Do you seriously think satan does not know what is to come to pass, He knows the Bible better than we do. He knows what is to come to pass, He is given the power to make things come to pass as well.
For example a demon can reveal to physic to tell a woman that she will meat a brown haired man with blue eye within a week, and fall head over heels in love. And lo and behold because the woman puts faith in the soothsayer, satan is able to make it come to pass exactly as foretold. So even though it came to pass, it was NOT from God.
You would do well to understand your enemy. If you don't think he knows the future and what is to come, you will be more easily duped by him.

^i^ Responding to Post #140

Satan is not all knowing[omniscient] and certainly not everywhere at once...[omnipresent]

Anyone who states this has fallen under his deception...It is evident you are not talking to the one true Living God, but conversing with the Angel of Light, who has you completely deceived...

Only Satan would tell you he is AS GOD is.....

For the record, Angels would not get you back on the right path, it crosses a kingdom mandate called free will and is the job of the person of the Holy Spirit....

Demons however would tell you they could do this...

you should go by DecievedDave.....the hand you are holding is not the nail scared hand of Jesus, but the angle of light....you ae in complete lock step with him my friend....

 

[kennethcadwell]

I knew you would have something to come back with...... I give credit to God, you give credit to men.
You keep looking to a millions different scholars, doctors, gym teachers, the guy at McDonald's to give you (or validate) your answers to Revelation. I'm looking at the Bible for answers.
Those guys like their names written in gold, in big letters (sometimes bigger than the title) on books.

Men appeal to our logical side for interpretation of prophecy....and many stray from truth to do so.
His ways are not our ways.

All you need to understand Revelation, is the Bible, God and the Holy Spirit to guide you. 1 Cor 2 :10
Nothing else. Stop trusting anything outside your Bible Ken, men can be liars, using the Bible for their own personal gain.

See, God wants a personal relationship with you and us. By looking everywhere else for answers it takes us outside the Word....we all try to piggyback ride into knowledge, instead of just taking the walk ourselves.

God is not trying to confuse us, with a little bit knowledge of history, and JUST the Bible....we get our answers. God is awesome. Simplicity.....no matter what that junk you read teaches you.



Are you saying you believe what you believe over the word "ones"??
Over and over in the Bible-lamp stands and trees, are compared to the church or the state of a church.
NEVER as individual people.

Revelation 1:20, he calls them churches.... If you can not see that, and understand that the Bible DOES NOT change up the definition of nouns in the middle of a book.......I do not know how to debate you.

You jump around, and claim it's okay to do so.

I give all credit to God for letting me be able to see these things in His word, and directing me in prayer when I have a question on a subject. He leads me right to the answer in His word.
I never give credit to men for what God has done, as I have mentioned in the past more then once how I have taking and listened to people on the subject who I don't really care for their teaching just to see their input on it. If it matches or somewhat matches scripture I will take it into consideration in my prayers to Him and studies. If it clearly does not match, or the person is saying it has already happened when other prophecies that come first have not then I quickly throw it out. Because you can not say the Great Tribulation has already happened or is happening when the man of sin is not even on the scene yet. For he is the one who ushers in the final 7 year period at the signing of the covenant/treaty.....

You do not dress a church in sackcloth, and a church building can not lie dead in the middle of a street. Plus I see where you are coming from on this, yes 1:20 says there the 7 lampstands are the 7 churches. However in Revelation 11 we are not just talking about lampstands here, as it shows olive branches. What is being said is there is going to be two main prophets (two individuals) who will represent the Jewish church (Mosaic law) and the other the Genitle believers (new covenant believers). For at this time period the Jews who still as of yet accept Jesus as Lord will have a prophet to represent them, and the new covenant believers will have a prophet represent them. Hince the two prophets......

 

[The_highwayman]

Anyways, the prophesy concerning every Saint will have their own planet to do with as they see fit, is a prophesy that takes place AFTER all the prophesies in the Bible are fulfilled.

There is nothing divine or God driven in this word and it is all your flesh....and a lying spirit in your mouth

This word of yours fails 2 tests...

The first and most important test it fails on is: The test that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Your word does not testify about Jesus at all...

The 2nd test it fails on is that you cannot back your word up with current scripture therefore you state it will only happen when others are fulfilled...this happens quite frequently with false prophets, who are ruled/oppressed by the powers of darkness, masquerading as angles of light....

I will not go any further, but this word fails many tests....

I see right through you my man and I could for a long time...It is my hope and prayer that someone crosses your path and helps you to shed the deception you are walking in...your spirit man depends on it..

 

[Reborn]

kennethcadwell---If it clearly does not match, or the person is saying it has already happened when other prophecies that come first have not then I quickly throw it out.

I like you Ken. ......but clearly, even if something is defined by the Bible, you will/might throw it out?
We will be held accountable for the things we teach.

You do not dress a church in sackcloth, and a church building can not lie dead in the middle of a street. Plus I see where you are coming from on this, yes 1:20 says there the 7 lampstands are the 7 churches.

IF the adjacent scripture surrounding the verse in question-- IS SYMBOLIC-- than the rest of it has to be too!! These two witnesses "lie dead" yes, but does it mean literally or spiritually? It can't mean literally, because the rest of the verse is symbolic and in figurative language.
You do know what sackcloth was/could be used for at the time, right?
So, what sack cloth was traditionally/stood for, AND in context of what is being spoken about --it does fit.
BTW, You can not dress a lampstand in sackcloth either....so WHY DO YOU KEEP jumping around????????
Literal to figurative, literal to figurative.

Your argument is falling apart, man.

However in Revelation 11 we are not just talking about lampstands here, as it shows olive branches.

Same thing I just wrote above, applies to the olive trees.

After they address the churches, around Revelation 4, almost the entire rest of the book turns to figurative language.
We can not jump around. All nouns become symbolic. (exception: God is God and the devil is the devil)
Yes, this may seem confusing, .....anyone truly seeking the Bible for the answers----they will find they are there.

 

[kennethcadwell]

There is nothing divine or God driven in this word and it is all your flesh....and a lying spirit in your mouth

This word of yours fails 2 tests...

The first and most important test it fails on is: The test that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Your word does not testify about Jesus at all...

The 2nd test it fails on is that you cannot back your word up with current scripture therefore you state it will only happen when others are fulfilled...this happens quite frequently with false prophets, who are ruled/oppressed by the powers of darkness, masquerading as angles of light....

I will not go any further, but this word fails many tests....

I see right through you my man and I could for a long time...It is my hope and prayer that someone crosses your path and helps you to shed the deception you are walking in...your spirit man depends on it..

Yes as the final prophecy is the New Heaven and the New Earth that comes after satan is defeated and cast into the lake of fire. Then all prophecy is now fulfilled and done as that which is perfect has come, as the new perfect heaven and earth with no sadness, evil, hatred, death, and so on takes place any more. No prophecies can or will take place after this, so that prophecy fails already by not lining up with the bible as no other prophecies take place after the events of Revelation comes to pass.

 

[The_highwayman]

We've got two examples of what Agabus said. One is presented as a direct quote. What is your basis for calling what he said word of wisdom or word of knowledge? You must have a particular definition for these terms. He could have not really known what he was talking about before it came out of his mouth.

Two prophets went to Sinai. Does that mean all prophets went to Sinai?



I think your statement about a prophet operating in certain other gifts may have been from one of Hagin's books, the only actually book of his I read through. (I might have read a booklet or two just out of curiosity.) It's possible that you heard this teaching from someone who heard it from Hagin.

I think you answered it for yourself, it would appear our definitions of what is a word of wisdom and word of knowledge color our responses...

I made it clear on Hagin...assume what you will on that. The Bible is pretty solid on what gifts the Prophets should operate in.

If you believe word of wisdom and word of knowledge are natural attributes, talents, abilities, or learned etc...then that might be our disconnect...Anything given by the Holy Spirit means it is supernatural and not natural...

If you study Jesus, you will see he operated in all 9 gifts found 1 Cor 12....

 

[The_highwayman]

Yes as the final prophecy is the New Heaven and the New Earth that comes after satan is defeated and cast into the lake of fire. Then all prophecy is now fulfilled and done as that which is perfect has come, as the new perfect heaven and earth with no sadness, evil, hatred, death, and so on takes place any more. No prophecies can or will take place after this, so that prophecy fails already by not lining up with the bible as no other prophecies take place after the events of Revelation comes to pass.

this is the 3rd test I was going to put up, but did not, thanks Kenneth...

 

[kennethcadwell]

I like you Ken. ......but clearly, even if something is defined by the Bible, you will/might throw it out?
We will be held accountable for the things we teach.



IF the adjacent scripture surrounding the verse in question-- IS SYMBOLIC-- than the rest of it has to be too!! These two witnesses "lie dead" yes, but does it mean literally or spiritually? It can't mean literally, because the rest of the verse is symbolic and in figurative language.
You do know what sackcloth was/could be used for at the time, right?
So, what sack cloth was traditionally/stood for, AND in context of what is being spoken about --it does fit.
BTW, You can not dress a lampstand in sackcloth either....so WHY DO YOU KEEP jumping around????????
Literal to figurative, literal to figurative.

Your argument is falling apart, man.



Same thing I just wrote above, applies to the olive trees.

After they address the churches, around Revelation 4, almost the entire rest of the book turns to figurative language.
We can not jump around. All nouns become symbolic. (exception: God is God and the devil is the devil)
Yes, this may seem confusing, .....anyone truly seeking the Bible for the answers----they will find they are there.

I am not jumping around it seems that way to those who are not versed in the prophecies.
Remember I said just because the scripture uses symbolism does not mean it is not speaking of a literal event.

Example: Daniel mentions the 4 beasts in Daniel 7, these beast are symbolism for nations/kingdoms that will actually literally exist. There is not going to be an actual huge lion with wings, a bear, a leopard, and 10 horned beast attacking the world as Revelation 13 shows all of them together as one.

Lion = Babylon or Great Britian

Bear = Persian or Russia

Leopard = Greek or Germany

The 4th beast is about the only beast I have seen that almost all prophecy teachers agree on as the Roman empire.

There is convincing debates that I have seen to support both sides, and these are symbolic yet these powers literally came to be throughout history and in Revelation 13 it shows that they will be combined and lead by the man of sin. If the Lion is Babylon still as past scholars have stated then the antichrist will destroy part of his own beast system that is spoken of 13 as the lead nation/country/kingdom of this beast system.

So you see we can use that card when it comes to prophecy that because of symbolism used it is not literal, as the 4 beast of Daniel prove. My debate is only falling apart by your standard of understanding, as 1,000's of prophecy teachers lead by the Holy Spirit have come up with the same statements I have made.

Symbolism does not mean literally, it just means placing something else in place of the literal object to conceal it from those who are not spiritually minded.

Same can be said about America, we are the Eagle.....The Eagle is the symbol for our nation, so if I wrote a book and said the land of the eagle, I would be using symbolism instead of just saying America.

 

[Reborn]

I am not jumping around it seems that way to those who are not versed in the prophecies.
Remember I said just because the scripture uses symbolism does not mean it is not speaking of a literal event.

Example: Daniel mentions the 4 beasts in Daniel 7, these beast are symbolism for nations/kingdoms that will actually literally exist. There is not going to be an actual huge lion with wings, a bear, a leopard, and 10 horned beast attacking the world as Revelation 13 shows all of them together as one.

Lion = Babylon or Great Britian

Bear = Persian or Russia

Leopard = Greek or Germany

The 4th beast is about the only beast I have seen that almost all prophecy teachers agree on as the Roman empire.

There is convincing debates that I have seen to support both sides, and these are symbolic yet these powers literally came to be throughout history and in Revelation 13 it shows that they will be combined and lead by the man of sin. If the Lion is Babylon still as past scholars have stated then the antichrist will destroy part of his own beast system that is spoken of 13 as the lead nation/country/kingdom of this beast system.

So you see we can use that card when it comes to prophecy that because of symbolism used it is not literal, as the 4 beast of Daniel prove. My debate is only falling apart by your standard of understanding, as 1,000's of prophecy teachers lead by the Holy Spirit have come up with the same statements I have made.

Symbolism does not mean literally, it just means placing something else in place of the literal object to conceal it from those who are not spiritually minded.

Same can be said about America, we are the Eagle.....The Eagle is the symbol for our nation, so if I wrote a book and said the land of the eagle, I would be using symbolism instead of just saying America.

Huh?
Guys like you....I'll never get.

I wrote something out...but I edited myself.

You can have the last word Ken.