Protestant Church has in Common with the Catholic Church

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Feb 6, 2015
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#41
Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with you.
Blessed are you among women,
and blessed is the fruit of your womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.


The Hail Mary is not a prayer of worship, but it is a recitation of Scripture and then an asking of her "to pray" for us to God; much like asking our other Christain brothers and sisters to pray for us.


Praying to a mortal person (especially one who is dead) is impossible.
Incorrect.... The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2). Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

So they must be praying to someone equal to God
Catholics do not put Mary on par with God; we just do a better job at recognizing the role she played in Christian history. Mary is certainly worthy of reverence, but not worship.

However.... if you disagree, and feel strongly in your claim..... feel free to accept my challenge that I put forth to MikeHenderson a couple of posts back.



Pax Christi

"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.

When was the last time you've done this?


..
 
Feb 6, 2015
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#42
Yes you can't trace a perfect line from the first of Jesus churches thru history.. to have a perfectly clear line of succession..
Au contraire mon frere, the Catholic Church can..... From St. Peter (our first Pope) to our present Pope Francis.


Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---Luke 1:48
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#43
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The Hail Mary is not a prayer of worship, but it is a recitation of Scripture and then an asking of her "to pray" for us to God; much like asking our other Christain brothers and sisters to pray for us.



Incorrect.... The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2). Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.



Catholics do not put Mary on par with God; we just do a better job at recognizing the role she played in Christian history. Mary is certainly worthy of reverence, but not worship.

However.... if you disagree, and feel strongly in your claim..... feel free to accept my challenge that I put forth to MikeHenderson a couple of posts back.



Pax Christi

"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.

When was the last time you've done this?


..


uh no. You see, the only reason this is difficult for you to understand is because you have been so heavily influenced by pseudo-religious pseudo-intellectual garbage from pagans in costumes.

The Bible does not teach us to pray to anyone but the Father/Son. Whatever you consider to be "worship" obviously has to fit in your tiny definition of worship. Yet creating statues and parading them around in front of millions of people who cry and bow down before it is worship as far as I am concerned.

Praying to someone who is dead, implies that they have some sort of ability to hear those prayers... It implies that the person is not dead and has some sort of omnipotence to receive those prayers. Asking for her to help you out, is a slap in the face to the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit. But so is every other aspect of Catholicism so what difference does it make

Deut 18:9-14
9 "When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#44
I always thought those who are in Christ when their flesh falls asleep their soul gos to the presence of Christ. This is the traditional belief of Christendom.
Is this also now considered heresy by the super saints of the new age?
I really enjoy all this new doctrine being revealed and apostalic tradition thrown in the trash.
Blind leading the blind.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#45
Litany of the Blessed Virgin.
This Litany was composed in Loretto, and sung in the processions in that city; and on that account it is often called, "The Litany of Loretto." Sixtus V., June 11th, 1587, granted to all Christians an indulgence of two hundred days for each time this Litany was piously repeated. This indulgence was confirmed by Benedict XIII., January 20th, 1728. †​

"Holy Mary, ‡ pray for us.
Holy Mother of God, pray for us.
Holy Virgin of Virgins, pray for us.
Mother of Christ, pray for us.
Mother of Divine Grace, pray for us.
Mother most pure, pray for us.
Mother most chaste, pray for us.
Mother most inviolate, pray for us.
Mother undefiled, pray for us.
Mother most amiable, pray for us.
Mother most admirable, pray for us.
Mother of our Creator, pray for us.
Mother of our Redeemer, pray for us.
Virgin most prudent, pray for us.
Virgin most venerable, pray for us.
Virgin most renowned, pray for us.
Virgin most powerful, pray for us.
Virgin most merciful, pray for us.
Virgin most faithful, pray for us.
Mirror of Justice, pray for us.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us.
Cause of our Joy, pray for us.
Spiritual Vessel, pray for us.​

"The Garden of the Soul," p. 297-8. London.​
[pg. 320]​
Vessel of Honor, pray for us.
Vessel of singular Devotion, pray for us.
Mystical Rose, pray for us.
Tower of David, pray for us.
Tower of Ivory, pray for us.
House of Gold, pray for us.
Ark of the Covenant, pray for us.
Gate of Heaven, pray for us.
Morning Star, pray for us.
Health of the Weak, pray for us.
Refuge of the Sinners, pray for us.
Comforter of the Afflicted, pray for us.
Help of Christians, pray for us.
Queen of Angels, pray for us.
Queen of Patriarchs, pray for us.
Queen of Prophets, pray for us.
Queen of Apostles, pray for us.
Queen of Martyrs, pray for us.
Queen of Confessors, pray for us.
Queen of Virgins, pray for us.
Queen of All Saints, pray for us.

Gregory XVI., in 1832,​
Says, in his Encyclical Letter [MIRARI VOS], published August 15th of that year: † "But that all things may have a prosperous and happy issue, let us raise our eyes and hands to the most holy Virgin Mary, who only destroys all heresies, who is our greatest hope; yea, the entire ground of our hope.

Prayer to the Blessed Virgin
Most Holy and Immaculate Virgin! O my Mother! Thou who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the advocate, hope, and refuge of sinners! I, the most wretched among them, now come to thee. I worship thee, great Queen, and give thee thanks for the many favors thou hast bestowed on my in the past; most of all do I thank thee for having saved me from hell, which I had so often deserved. I love thee, Lady most worthy of all love, and, by the love which I bear thee, I promise ever in the future to serve thee, and to do what in me lies to win others to thy love. In thee I put all my trust, all my hope of salvation. Receive me as thy servant, and cover me with the mantle of thy protection, thou who art the Mother of mercy! And since thou hast so much power with God, deliver me from all temptations, or at least obtain for me the grace ever to overcome them. From thee I ask a true love of Jesus Christ, and the grace of a happy death. O my Mother! By thy love for God I beseech thee to be at all times my helper, but above all at the last moment of my life. Leave me not until thou seest me safe in heaven, there for endless ages to bless thee and sing thy praises. Such is my hope. Amen. (Prayer of St. Alphonse Liguori, 3 yrs indulgence,Raccolta, 342)
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#46
18. It is therefore, a pleasure for us, a full century having passed since the Pontiff of immortal memory, Pius IX, solemnly proclaimed this singular privilege of the Virgin Mother of God, to summarize the whole doctrinal position and conclude in these words of the same Pontiff, asserting that this doctrine "vouched for in Sacred Scripture according to the interpretation of the Fathers, is handed down by them in so many of their important writings, is expressed and celebrated in so many illustrious monuments of renowned antiquity, and proposed and confirmed by the greatest and highest decision of the Church" (Bull Ineffabilis Deus), so that to pastors and faithful there is nothing "more sweet, nothing dearer than to worship, venerate, invoke and praise with ardent affection the Mother of God conceived without stain of original sin. (Ibidem.)

33. But where - as is the case in almost all dioceses, there exists a church in which the Virgin Mother of God is worshipped with more intense devotion, thither on stated days let pilgrims flock together in great numbers and publicly and in the open give glorious expression to their common Faith and their common love toward the Virgin Most Holy. ...

34. But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era worshipped the heavenly mother, its patroness, with a special devotion. As all know, there are many sacred edifices here, in which she is proposed for the devotion of the Roman people; but the greatest without doubt is the Liberian Basilica [St. Mary Major], in which the mosaics of Our predecessor of pious memory, Sixtus III, still glisten, an outstanding monument to the Divine maternity of the Virgin Mary, and in which the "salvation of the Roman people" (Salus Populi Romani) benignly smiles.

Source:
FULGENS CORONA,
Encyclical Of Pope PIUS XII, September 8th, 1953.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#47
In his 1956 encyclical "Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus", Pius XII defines Mary's role in the redemption of mankind:
"By the will of God, the most Blessed Virgin Mary was INSEPARABLY JOINED WITH CHRIST IN ACCOMPLISHING THE WORK OF MAN’S REDEMPTION so that our salvation flows from the love of Jesus Christ and His sufferings, intimately UNITED with the love and sorrows of His Mother."
Pius says that it was "the will of God" that Jesus should NOT accomplish our salvation BY HIMSELF, but that our salvation comes from Jesus AND Mary. If that is true, it is only right and reasonable that we offer her our faith, worship and obedience, because without her, according to Pius, there is no salvation. If Jesus and Mary are "inseparably joined", it is also reasonable to conclude that when we worship Jesus, we automatically worship Mary.
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#48
I always thought those who are in Christ when their flesh falls asleep their soul gos to the presence of Christ. This is the traditional belief of Christendom.
Is this also now considered heresy by the super saints of the new age?
I really enjoy all this new doctrine being revealed and apostalic tradition thrown in the trash.
Blind leading the blind.
I don't buy any apostolic tradition. No matter who's soul is with the Lord, you can't pray to it
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#49
oh, they can and do in idolatry pray to many things - trees, gold, silver, people, demons(they serve in the rcc).

the heresy is and always has been heresy. all of their customs, practices, doctrines and teachings are opposed to the gospel of jesus christ and against scripture (GOD'S WORD).

there is nothing anyone can say nor add to make that which is demonic un-demonic. the rcc is demonic. always has been. always will be. not chance for redemption of the rcc- it is destroyed in its wickedness. only a few escape its devilish clutches.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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#50
Protestants are always disagreeing against the Catholic doctrine, but do Christians know that two Churches have a common foundation! Both churches agreed abound since the foundation of the Christian faith....[SIZE=+1]Nicene Creed[/SIZE]
Yes? This is perfectly fine with me. No problem at all.
 
Feb 6, 2015
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#51
uh no. You see, the only reason this is difficult for you to understand is because you have been so heavily influenced by pseudo-religious pseudo-intellectual garbage from pagans in costumes.
Uh..... with a statement like this, I can see that your knowledge of Catholicism is very limited, as are your manners.

The Bible does not teach us to pray to anyone but the Father/Son.
So let me guess, you are a believer of the unbiblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura, yes/no? You also seem to have forgotten James 5:16-18: 'The prayer of the good man has powerful effect." In other words, the most powerful intercessors in the Church are those most advanced in holiness. And who is more advanced in holiness than a soul who is already fully sanctified and in heaven?

Also W-E, if you truely believe what you say here, you might want to refrain from praying the Lords Prayer. The reason I say this is because the entire second part of the Lord's prayer is intercessory prayer where we pray for ourselves and others (us, we, and our)

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give US this day OUR daily bread.
Forgive US OUR trespasses,
as WE forgive those who trespass against US.
And lead US not into temptation,
but deliver US from evil.

Something you might want to think about next time you pray it.

Whatever you consider to be "worship" obviously has to fit in your tiny definition of worship. Yet creating statues and parading them around in front of millions of people who cry and bow down before it is worship as far as I am concerned.
Pretty bold statement here, care to back it up? If you are so sure of what you say is true, take it to the next level and accept my challenge. Here... I'll repeat it for you.

"Show me any where in Catholic doctrine that is imprimatur, where it says that Catholics believe that Mary is equal to God and we are to worship her, the saints/ the Pope, Statues/ icons, ect. anything or anyone other than God. If you can do that, I will denounce my Catholic faith and will join whatever church it is you belong. (What church might that be?) However, if you cannot, you would have to publicly admit on this forum that the Protestant/non-Catholic belief that Catholics worship Mary is a bald face lie. Willing to accept this challenge?"

Praying to someone who is dead, implies that they have some sort of ability to hear those prayers... It implies that the person is not dead and has some sort of omnipotence to receive those prayers. Asking for her to help you out, is a slap in the face to the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
I'm afraid not, asking a person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

But so is every other aspect of Catholicism so what difference does it make
And of course you can show proof of this.

Duet.18:9-14.
So by bringing up these passages W-E, I'm guessing that you object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us by declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy? Well, fact is he has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits.

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. So come on W-E, anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and say a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.



Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48

When was the last time you did?
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#52
Uh..... with a statement like this, I can see that your knowledge of Catholicism is very limited, as are your manners.


So let me guess, you are a believer of the unbiblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura, yes/no? You also seem to have forgotten James 5:16-18: 'The prayer of the good man has powerful effect." In other words, the most powerful intercessors in the Church are those most advanced in holiness. And who is more advanced in holiness than a soul who is already fully sanctified and in heaven?

Also W-E, if you truely believe what you say here, you might want to refrain from praying the Lords Prayer. The reason I say this is because the entire second part of the Lord's prayer is intercessory prayer where we pray for ourselves and others (us, we, and our)

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give US this day OUR daily bread.
Forgive US OUR trespasses,
as WE forgive those who trespass against US.
And lead US not into temptation,
but deliver US from evil.

Something you might want to think about next time you pray it.


Pretty bold statement here, care to back it up? If you are so sure of what you say is true, take it to the next level and accept my challenge. Here... I'll repeat it for you.

"Show me any where in Catholic doctrine that is imprimatur, where it says that Catholics believe that Mary is equal to God and we are to worship her, the saints/ the Pope, Statues/ icons, ect. anything or anyone other than God. If you can do that, I will denounce my Catholic faith and will join whatever church it is you belong. (What church might that be?) However, if you cannot, you would have to publicly admit on this forum that the Protestant/non-Catholic belief that Catholics worship Mary is a bald face lie. Willing to accept this challenge?"


I'm afraid not, asking a person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).


And of course you can show proof of this.


So by bringing up these passages W-E, I'm guessing that you object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us by declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy? Well, fact is he has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits.

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. So come on W-E, anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and say a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.



Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48

When was the last time you did?
My manners are intact, you have been heavily influenced by pagans, who use latin to sound spiritual to those who are unspiritual.

I am not a part of any congregation currently.

Intercessory prayer, asking our Father to forgive and keep US (those who are alive) from temptation is not unbiblical. I have no problems with the Lord's prayer.

If the words of the pope :there is nothing "more sweet, nothing dearer than to worship, venerate, invoke and praise with ardent affection the Mother of God conceived without stain of original sin. (Ibidem.)
Are not enough evidence for you then what do you want? You are just playing with terms as you have been taught. Equal to, not equal to, worship, venerate, create shrines for, bow down and kiss statues, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God, co-redemptrix, without sin. and on and on, it's just giving different terms to dance around the truth.

But so is every other aspect of Catholicism so what difference does it make
And of course you can show proof of this.

What proof do you want? A few aspects of Catholicism which are anti-Christ:

Wearing costumes from pagan religions.
The priesthood/laity classes.
Repeating prayers mindlessly as the gentiles do.
Resacrificing Christ.
Indulgences.
Observing man made traditions over the commandments of God.
Idolatry, graven images, relics
Praying to things other than God.
Worshipping things which are not God.
Venerating angels and dead saint.
Worship of Mary.
Purgatory.
Phony Holiness.
Completely corrupt gospel message
The Papacy.
Prayers for the Dead.
Praying and teaching in Latin, when God says not to speak in another language unless there is an interpreter.
Holy Water.
Canonization of dead saints - All are saints in Christ
Lent
The merging of all religions
Celibacy of the phony "priesthood"
Rosary Beads
The massacre of true saints
Confessing to a fake priest
The hoarding of much of the worlds wealth
The scapular
Immaculate Conception.


And on and on and on... But of course you won't accept any of the definitive proofs for these things because you do not value the word of God, only the teachings of antichrists. There is no understanding of Christ in the devils RCC or many protestant churches (maybe even the vast majority these days as they are just worldly catholic clones). It has all been intellectualized religicized and stripped of all power and truth.

So no, I guess I can't offer you any proof for these things other than the actual words of God. If you want help, pm me
 
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Mar 23, 2014
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#53
Unless you are none of the above.....for I am neither Catholic or Protestant.......Jesus started his church during his earthly ministry, the church is spoken of in the present tense no less than two times during his eartly ministry and he promised the perpetuity of his church.....woven thru history there has always been at least one true New Testament church on this planet and all of the "churches" so called that came later have hardly anything in common with the work that Jesus started.........No offence meant......!
What church you go?
 
M

mattp0625

Guest
#54
Sooo the angel Gabriel has a share of knowledge from God. He knew exactly where to find Mary (Luke 1).
Mary is in heaven. Those who follow Christ while on earth and are in heaven are saints.
Mary cannot hear us when we ask her to pray, you say?
Gabriel has a share in God's knowledge but not Mary?
Read 1 Cor 6.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#55
I don't buy any apostolic tradition. No matter who's soul is with the Lord, you can't pray to it
Well you certainly can not worship any saint, and the devotion to Mary as you have shown does cross the line of asking for prayers to worship.
I do believe in the communion of the saints, that we are all one in Christ, and no saint is dead, but abides with Christ and we ask those with Christ to pray for us and others.
I appreciate your position as well and do not hold a dogmatic position on such things. You can if you like but are not required to pray to saints.

Christ be with you always.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#56
For all of the folks who pray to Mary and / or other saints:

Do you pray to living saints?

Instead of verbally asking your fellow church members to pray for you or others -- do you simply pray ( in your thoughts ) to these people?

Why not? What is the difference?

Instead of making a written request ( post ) on CC asking for others to pray for you or others -- do you simply pray ( in your thoughts ) to specific people that you know? Or, everyone in general?

Why not? What is the difference?


Is it okay if - instead of praying directly to God - they pray to other saints, angels, etc. - asking them to pray for you?



The issue here is reception of communication from others.


I have no doubt that the saints who have died, and are now in heaven, can pray to God. However, I have serious doubts that they can "hear the thoughts" of the people on earth. I base this conclusion largely on the "conversation" initiated by the "souls under the alter" in this passage of scripture:


Revelation 6:

[SUP]9[/SUP] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [SUP]10[/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [SUP]11[/SUP] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



'And they cried with a loud voice' tells me this communication is 'verbal' - which is to say, in the context of this discussion - that verbal communication is still necessary for them to communicate. And, even though this phrase is representative of "outward" communication - nevertheless, it still also is an indicator of the necessity of verbal communication. If people could "hear the thoughts" of others, there would be no need for verbal communication. Yes, I know they are speaking to God. Yes, I know it was recorded for our benefit. But then, it is all about the necessity of the 'speaking' of people being in 'verbal' form. ( The 'written' form also applies in this discussion, even if not in the context of the above passage of scripture. )

The point is -- people cannot [ effectively ] communicate through thoughts only - they must utilize some "outward" form - verbal, written, "body language", etc.

I do not believe that saints in heaven can even "hear the thoughts" of each other.

Indications are - or certainly seem to be - that even the angels are required to communicate 'verbally'.

God is the only entity in existence that can "hear the thoughts" of others.

This is the point.

"Food for thought..."

:)

EDIT: And - even if angels can "hear the thoughts" of humans -- humans cannot...
 
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WheresEnoch

Guest
#57
fish.jpg
empror.jpg
paganqueen01.jpg
pine-cone-vatican-city.jpg
MITHRAS SUN WORSHIP AND ROMAN CATHOLICISM.jpg
a pagan worship story.jpg

[video=youtube;9O4d3bz5G-w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O4d3bz5G-w[/video]
 
W

WheresEnoch

Guest
#58
[video=youtube;HZEhOwWxcXA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZEhOwWxcXA[/video]
 
N

nw2u

Guest
#59
I get your point. I hate pine trees too. :p If they are in my yard, I cut them out by the roots. Deceptively tantalizing things. Once, I was out there on my knees picking them up, and low and behold, one of my neighbors started preaching about worshiping them and how I was just saving them in the bag I was putting them in to create monuments with them. After lunch, I dumped the bag in the woods and he praised me for believing. I offered him a beer and we both sat and had a conversation about kneeling beside the bed when we pray before sleep. Of course this is all made up. LOL
 
May 21, 2014
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#60
I get your point. I hate pine trees too. :p If they are in my yard, I cut them out by the roots. Deceptively tantalizing things. Once, I was out there on my knees picking them up, and low and behold, one of my neighbors started preaching about worshiping them and how I was just saving them in the bag I was putting them in to create monuments with them. After lunch, I dumped the bag in the woods and he praised me for believing. I offered him a beer and we both sat and had a conversation about kneeling beside the bed when we pray before sleep. Of course this is all made up. LOL

AQueen chuckles that was cute and funny! Laughter is great for the soul.