Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[BradC]

The passage in 1 John says you have to confess that future sin first in 1:9 before our advocate in the Lord cleanses us of that sin. It has confession first, which is what I said previously that you have done like others and want to cancel the confession first part out. The finished work on the cross was just the debt for sins paid in full by His own blood, so that no more sacrifices are needed. However to receive that remission by His blood He says we still need to repent, confess, and yes even baptized, I showed you also by Peter and Paul how they both said only previous and present time and repentance were wiped out, and future sins still have to be confessed so that they can receive remission. That is the whole point of times of refreshing that come in our life is all about that Acts 3:19 talks about. The bible clearly says that as a born again believer if you do sin again, you should fell Godly sorrow for that sin, which would be the Holy Spirit convicting you.

NO, NO, NO... we need to believe in our heart!!!! We can actually confess, repent and be baptized yet not believe in our heart. That is very possible because those are religious acts that many of us have done as babes in Christ. I am not knocking these things but I am saying that they can be done by anybody whether they believe of not. In the flesh our repentance and confession of sin is only good until the next time we get tempted. When we get tempted we can't use our previous confession and repentance of sin to get out of it. We must reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin because of the cross and alive unto God because He was raised from the dead and we were raised with him. To confess, repent and be baptized would be outward actions with no inward faith or trusting in the living God. We can do these in the flesh and never believe in the righteousness that comes by faith through the finished work of the cross. God looks upon the heart and not the outward appearance or the flesh. He wants us to appropriate what He has done for us through the cross by grace through faith. The believer does not have to fell remorse or godly sorrow when sin is involved, it is not a mandate or prerequisite for repentance or for how we walk in the Lord. Godly sorrow is for those who continually have grieved the Holy Spirit in one way or another, individually or as a group.

 

[psychomom]

NO, NO, NO... we need to believe in our heart!!!! We can actually confess, repent and be baptized yet not believe in our heart. That is very possible because those are religious acts that many of us have done as babes in Christ. I am not knocking these things but I am saying that they can be done by anybody whether they believe of not. In the flesh our repentance and confession of sin is only good until the next time we get tempted. When we get tempted we can't use our previous confession and repentance of sin to get out of it. We must reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin because of the cross and alive unto God because He was raised from the dead and we were raised with him. To confess, repent and be baptized would be outward actions with no inward faith or trusting in the living God. We can do these in the flesh and never believe in the righteousness that comes by faith through the finished work of the cross. God looks upon the heart and not the outward appearance or the flesh. He wants us to appropriate what He has done for us through the cross by grace through faith. The believer does not have to fell remorse or godly sorrow when sin is involved, it is not a mandate or prerequisite for repentance or for how we walk in the Lord. Godly sorrow is for those who continually have grieved the Holy Spirit in one way or another, individually or as a group.

sigh.

it's the Gospel vs moralism.

 

[AuphirahQueen]

What I am interested in is the full meaning from the original text of the word "believeth" as it is used in John 3:16.

I am asking because, recently I heard a Sermon where the Preacher said that in the original language, the "tense" this was used in means more than just simply believing something. Rather it means to come to believe, and continue in that belief. To never stop believing.

If this is true, then I look at John 3:16, and I see it saying........"whosoever believeth in, and continues in that belief......"

In a way, this would also explain another statement Jesus made........

Matthew 24:13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


If correct, then I can see why Jesus would say "he that shall endure unto the end..........." meaning he who continued in his belief, and never stopped believing in Jesus...........

SIDEBAR: This is not intended to support or argue against ANY Theological position. I'm simply asking for a clarification of the proper "tense" use of the word "believeth" in John 3:16

Thanks (ahead of time) for any effort you may put into answering this. I will check back later this evening to read your comment(s).

God bless

[h=1]John 3 King James Version (KJV)[/h]16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


[h=1]John 3 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)[/h]16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[h=1]John 3 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h]16 “For God loved the world in this way:[j] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

[h=1]John 3 English Standard Version (ESV)[/h]16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

[h=1]John 3 New International Version (NIV)[/h]16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (I do not like the NIV)


This is one of the reasons I do not use KJV to many errors for me.

[h=2]believeth[/h]

Use believeth in a sentence

Verb

• (archaic) third-person singular simple present indicative form of believe

OriginFrom believe +‎ -eth, the archaic third-person singular present tense suffix

The Word Believeth

The word "believeth" appears in the King James Version New Testament a total of 40 times. In nearly all of these cases, it is translated from the Greek verb "pisteuo." This present tense verb does not refer to a one-time spiritual action, but to a continual or habitual spiritual action. It means . . .

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

the potency of verse 4 rests in the fact that twice in the verse he make it clear you are no longer a part of Christ...
vs 7 is also clear ...they were running well...but were hindered from obeying the truth...

Looking through this thread again a question comes to mind; based on what you mentioned above here brother newbirth......

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

" the potency of verse 4 rests in the fact that twice in the verse he make it clear"

.......Under the same reasoning; does your aforementioned statement apply to this verse as well?

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[newbirth]

Looking through this thread again a question comes to mind; based on what you mentioned above here brother newbirth......

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.



.......Under the same reasoning; does your aforementioned statement apply to this verse as well?

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

same reasoning...not withstanding that they come unto God by him(meaning his way)
is there a doubt that Christ can save....the issue is not the ability of Christ to save...but the ability of man to remain in Christ...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



Hebrews 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

NO, NO, NO... we need to believe in our heart!!!! We can actually confess, repent and be baptized yet not believe in our heart. That is very possible because those are religious acts that many of us have done as babes in Christ. I am not knocking these things but I am saying that they can be done by anybody whether they believe of not. In the flesh our repentance and confession of sin is only good until the next time we get tempted. When we get tempted we can't use our previous confession and repentance of sin to get out of it. We must reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin because of the cross and alive unto God because He was raised from the dead and we were raised with him. To confess, repent and be baptized would be outward actions with no inward faith or trusting in the living God. We can do these in the flesh and never believe in the righteousness that comes by faith through the finished work of the cross. God looks upon the heart and not the outward appearance or the flesh. He wants us to appropriate what He has done for us through the cross by grace through faith. The believer does not have to fell remorse or godly sorrow when sin is involved, it is not a mandate or prerequisite for repentance or for how we walk in the Lord. Godly sorrow is for those who continually have grieved the Holy Spirit in one way or another, individually or as a group.

Yes but the words of our Lord and the bible make it clear that until those things are done salvation/eternal life is not in your possession mentally (echo). Your faith comes by hearing the word and trusting in what it said, and then that faith will carry you to repent and get baptized to receive remission of your sins through the Lord. Until you receive that remission you are not saved, headed toward eternal life. The bible makes it clear that we are buried and then raised into Him through baptism. Paul says Godly sorrow works in believers when they sin, to lead them to repentance of the sin they did. The only way a believer would not feel Godly sorrow is if they completely abstain from sins.....

 

[kennethcadwell]

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


John 3 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

16 “For God loved the world in this way:[j] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 3 English Standard Version (ESV)

16 “For God so loved the world,[i]that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3 New International Version (NIV)

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believesin him shall not perish but have eternal life. (I do not like the NIV)


This is one of the reasons I do not use KJV to many errors for me.

believeth

Use believeth in a sentence

Verb

• (archaic) third-person singular simple present indicative form of believe

OriginFrom believe +‎ -eth, the archaic third-person singular present tense suffix

The Word Believeth

The word "believeth" appears in the King James Version New Testament a total of 40 times. In nearly all of these cases, it is translated from the Greek verb "pisteuo." This present tense verb does not refer to a one-time spiritual action, but to a continual or habitual spiritual action. It means . . .

The problem is not the translation, is how the context is applied by those who do not know the original Greek. And using our now day dictionaries does no justice either. Plus the bible lists us all brothers, sisters in Christ, and of sons and daughters of God when we are in Christ.

pisteuó: to believe, entrust​

​

​

Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.HELPS Word-studies
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

 

[BradC]

Yes but the words of our Lord and the bible make it clear that until those things are done salvation/eternal life is not in your possession mentally (echo). Your faith comes by hearing the word and trusting in what it said, and then that faith will carry you to repent and get baptized to receive remission of your sins through the Lord. Until you receive that remission you are not saved, headed toward eternal life. The bible makes it clear that we are buried and then raised into Him through baptism. Paul says Godly sorrow works in believers when they sin, to lead them to repentance of the sin they did. The only way a believer would not feel Godly sorrow is if they completely abstain from sins.....

We receive remission of sins the moment we believe in the cross of Christ and it is the only way our sins are remitted. There is no work of repentance that qualifies us for remission of sin, only faith in the cross and shed blood of Christ (Heb 9:22). You are living in John's baptism of repentance and that was superceded and done away when John's head was cut off (Luke 3:3, Mk 6:24-29). If you want remission of sins through the work of repentance and baptism you will be waiting along time for that to happen. (Matt 26:28, Luke 1:77,78, 24:47 (repentance and remission of sins in His NAME), same in Acts 2:38, & 10:43, Rom 3:25, Heb 10:17-20).

As you again ponder these things to your own dismay consider the following...

Heb 6:1-3

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works... Shall we consider (Heb 9:14)...

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The repentance here is from dead works and it is a principle of the doctrine of Christ and that foundation has already been laid down for us so that we can go onto perfection. So let's not try and lay down some other foundation of repentance or of the doctrine of baptisms.

 

[kennethcadwell]

We receive remission of sins the moment we believe in the cross of Christ and it is the only way our sins are remitted. There is no work of repentance that qualifies us for remission of sin, only faith in the cross and shed blood of Christ (Heb 9:22). You are living in John's baptism of repentance and that was superceded and done away when John's head was cut off (Luke 3:3, Mk 6:24-29). If you want remission of sins through the work of repentance and baptism you will be waiting along time for that to happen. (Matt 26:28, Luke 1:77,78, 24:47 (repentance and remission of sins in His NAME), same in Acts 2:38, & 10:43, Rom 3:25, Heb 10:17-20).

As you again ponder these things to your own dismay consider the following...

Heb 6:1-3

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works... Shall we consider (Heb 9:14)...

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The repentance here is from dead works and it is a principle of the doctrine of Christ and that foundation has already been laid down for us so that we can go onto perfection. So let's not try and lay down some other foundation of repentance or of the doctrine of baptisms.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.



Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


I guess the Lord and Peter lied then when they said repentance comes first before remission of sins is received through the Lord's blood by His crucifixion He did for us. The bible through their words does not say remission comes by first moment of belief/faith, as that comes from hearing the word. They both say repentance of sins has to come first, before remission is given.....
The scriptures you gave in Hebrews is and does not do away with baptism, confession, or repentance. The context in those scriptures is about if we are walking properly in the Spirit, we will not need to repent of anything again. The dead works is not baptism, repentance, and confession as those are spiritual works that we do and will do as God permits (verse 3). Repenting of dead works are those things that lead to spiritual death, sins of unrighteousness......

 

[BradC]

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.



Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


I guess the Lord and Peter lied then when they said repentance comes first before remission of sins is received through the Lord's blood by His crucifixion He did for us. The bible through their words does not say remission comes by first moment of belief/faith, as that comes from hearing the word. They both say repentance of sins has to come first, before remission is given.....
The scriptures you gave in Hebrews is and does not do away with baptism, confession, or repentance. The context in those scriptures is about if we are walking properly in the Spirit, we will not need to repent of anything again. The dead works is not baptism, repentance, and confession as those are spiritual works that we do and will do as God permits (verse 3). Repenting of dead works are those things that lead to spiritual death, sins of unrighteousness......

You have learned these things in the wrong way and you have a wrong premise for what you understand. Christ is our foundation along with what was accomplished on the cross through his death, burial and resurrection. We have to be careful how we build on the foundation. The Jews in (Acts 2) needed to repent of their unbelief in Christ as the one sent from God. This is the repentance that Peter was after for they were all Jews. Look at the message he preached and you will see what he is asking them to repent of. The baptism they were to partake of had everything to do with the name of Jesus Christ. These Jews needed to make a clean break of their rejection of Christ and be identified with him through baptism.

These Jews were going back to the nations that had gathered themselves to be in Jerusalem for Pentecost. They needed to confess the name of Christ and be converted from what they had been in bondage to through the righteousness of the law. Christ needed to be their righteousness by faith through their confession of his death, burial and resurrection and not a confession of righteousness through the deeds of the law. They needed to have their fellowship based on and rooted in the work of the cross and not based upon any repentance of sin they would confess because of transgressing the law. Their unbelief was concerning the claims of Christ which they crucified him for and for that they needed to repent so that they could be converted and times of refreshing could come to them and to those in (Acts 3) and their sins could be blotted out, the sins of rejecting Christ and living in unbelief concerning Him.

 

[Sirk]

Lamentations tells us that "His mercies are new every morning"....then there is a little disclaimer under it that says "except for Kenneth, he better repent of everything he did yesterday or it's curtains for him"..

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

same reasoning...not withstanding that they come unto God by him(meaning his way)
is there a doubt that Christ can save....the issue is not the ability of Christ to save...but the ability of man to remain in Christ...

" the potency of verse 4 rests in the fact that twice in the verse he make it clear"

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Same reasoning as it applies to Christ being able to save to the uttermost, all that are drawn to Him by the Father?......

Twice in the verse Paul makes it clear;He saves to the uttermost and that He always lives to make intercession for those who are drawn to Him for salvation at Father's will. Paul says "that come unto God by Him" aligning with the Words of Jesus.......
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

so we can confirm by the scriptures that .......
This is how those who are being saved "come unto to God by Him"......."His way"...... is clearly seen here in the scriptures. It is God's Good will and mercy toward man and not vice versa.......

but the ability of man to remain in Christ...

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Man never had the ability to save himself brother because sin is in the nature of our flesh and our flesh is contrary to the Spirit. (Galatians 5:17). Sin is also always present in our flesh (Romans 7:18),(1John 1:18) Which is why man will always need a Savior. Christ came into the world to pay for our sins completely past and future, saved by grace or waiting for the day to dawn and day star to arise in the heart, He saves completely. It is His responsibility to save us not our own we could never do that.

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Hebrews 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Some food for thought:
These verses from the letters you quoted here of James and Hebrews go out to all levels of believers and even to unbelievers (Romans 10:18). Of those who received these letters; some men were blinded and ignoring the blessed Gospel of our salvation when it was first preached to them, some were just learning like babes drinking milk and also some were well learned and nourished up eating solid food. (Hebrews 5:13),(1 Corinthians 3:2)(1 Peter 2:2).

Romans 4:4-8 HCSB
How joyful is the man the Lord will never charge with sin!

 

[newbirth]

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Same reasoning as it applies to Christ being able to save to the uttermost, all that are drawn to Him by the Father?......

you are trying to inject another meaning into the scripture...that uttermost is speaking of the ability of Jesus to save till the end of time....in the context of salvation and him being the high priest...
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

it is one sacrifice and everyone is afforded one opportunity....that sacrifice does not work for you again after you you have been saved already

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Twice in the verse Paul makes it clear;He saves to the uttermost and that He always lives to make intercession for those who are drawn to Him for salvation at Father's will. Paul says "that come unto God by Him" aligning with the Words of Jesus.......
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

the scripture is speaking about the sacrifice of the cross....one cannot continually reuse that offering...it is a one time offering....a one time cleansing....that takes away your sins and he gives us the HS to follow that we should not continue in sin...
it is the same thing Peter was saying in Acts2....[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
afar off does not mean another country...it means the coming years...likewise uttermost does not mean to their end...but the coming years......

so we can confirm by the scriptures that .......
This is how those who are being saved "come unto to God by Him"......."His way"...... is clearly seen here in the scriptures. It is God's Good will and mercy toward man and not vice versa.......

your conclusions are not based on the context of scripture

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Man never had the ability to save himself brother because sin is in the nature of our flesh and our flesh is contrary to the Spirit. (Galatians 5:17). Sin is also always present in our flesh (Romans 7:18),(1John 1:18) Which is why man will always need a Savior. Christ came into the world to pay for our sins completely past and future, saved by grace or waiting for the day to dawn and day star to arise in the heart, He saves completely. It is His responsibility to save us not our own we could never do that.

Jesus saves cleans and purifies a person ,makes them new...he puts the HS in them so that they will now live like a child of God....if they sin he tells them to confess and he will forgive(that means future sins are not already forgiven)...he says abide in me ...those who endure to the end shall be saved....
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Some food for thought:
These verses from the letters you quoted here of James and Hebrews go out to all levels of believers and even to unbelievers (Romans 10:18). Of those who received these letters; some men were blinded and ignoring the blessed Gospel of our salvation when it was first preached to them, some were just learning like babes drinking milk and also some were well learned and nourished up eating solid food. (Hebrews 5:13),(1 Corinthians 3:2)(1 Peter 2:2).

Romans 4:4-8 HCSB
How joyful is the man the Lord will never charge with sin!

are you implying if you sin God will not charge you with sin...that only happens......
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness..........
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

......this is the man who is never charged with sin....and how can this be if all future sins are forgiven????

 

[john832]

especially the part that states that someone who denies the fact that they have PRESENST SIN is a LAIR and has NO TRUTH in HIM....

So which is it....the ones who teach you can loose it say or imply that they do not sin and or walk perfect ALL the time before the throne or.....It is the spirit (God's kingdom is spiritual) that is born again, does NOT SIN, is eternally saved, secure and justified in JESUS while being bound in a body that fails every day in some form or fashion!

What I believe is that I can go before the throne of grace and receive grace each time I sin...

Lam 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lam 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

Because God is faithful...

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

When I turn my back on this throne of grace and no longer ask for forgiveness but rather choose a life of sin without remorse or repentance, I can lose my salvation...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are still teaching that someone who is truly saved can lose their salvation. And that those who are saved but get overtaken in some sin loses his salvation at that point and then regains his salvation again at his own mere will when he stops (repent from and confess) that sin. Overall you teach a salvation conditioned on the efforts and works of the sinner, not on the person and work of Christ alone. And that is not biblical. As much as you look in the Bible in its entirety you will not find support for such absurd ideas, going in and out of salvation at one's own will. You got that teaching from somewhere else, where? Your self or someone else's? How many times did you get saved so far?

I will never understand how someone can look at the law. Place it next to their life, and think they can have merit with God through obedience and self effort, and not see the total depravity of their life and standing with God based on said law.

at any moment of time, if we take a snapshot of our life and everything we do, and place that next to the guidline given in Gods law. we would see how totally condemned and unworthy we are. It has nothing to do with wanting to live in sin, or wanting to do certain things, it has everything to do with a knowledge, when it comes to the law, And Gods requirement for his mercy based on self effort, we have failed, are failing and will continue to fail to live up to that standard.

True faith in Christ is the realization of this fact, and living a life of humility and thankfulness for the God who saved us because we are totally unable to save ourselves.

Just because some want to take this to the extreme and live a licentious gospel. does not mean the gospel of faith is in error. But because it seems easier to think we are more holy if we obey and repent every time we think we mess up (false humility) and will keep us from that licentious lifestyle, we reject grace and replace it with self effort.

It all seems good, but satan comes as an angel of light, it is his lie, and people fall hook line and sinker for that "feel good" gospel. because they do not want to accept the "humility" gospel that says no matter what I do no matter how good I think I am, when it comes to the law. I am unworthy, filthy, dirty, slimebag who does not even deserve to carry the name of Christ.

 

[BradC]

What I believe is that I can go before the throne of grace and receive grace each time I sin...

Lam 3:22 It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lam 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

Because God is faithful...

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

When I turn my back on this throne of grace and no longer ask for forgiveness but rather choose a life of sin without remorse or repentance, I can lose my salvation...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

You did so well until you came to the wrong conclusion and understanding of (Heb 10:26-29). The 'willful sin' is not the sin of the works of the flesh, it has to do with willfully rejecting the atoning sacrifice for sin made by Christ and His shed blood. These Jews had come to the knowledge of that truth and they were warned if they willfully rejected it and went back to the OT sacrifices (which a temple is needed), then there is no more sacrifice that can be made for their 'willful sin' an act of going back to the former. There would be no way to renew them again unto repentance (Heb 6:6).

This is not written concerning personal sin but a willful sin of a Jew who received the knowledge of the truth about the once and for all sacrifice of Christ and then to reject it. This is the law and sacrifice of the new covenant and to willfully sin and despise it can only result in judgment without mercy having trodden under foot the Son of God and counting the blood of the new covenant an unholy thing. That is how a Jew engaged in willful sin that had nothing to do with what came under Moses. This is the final sacrifice for sins and there would be no more and to reject it after you had received the truth of it there would no more atonement offered. Personal sins, willful or otherwise, have an atoning sacrifice for the remission of those sins but for a Jew to reject and turn willfully from that sacrifice there was no other atonement. Salvation would come only through this atoning sacrifice for sin and to reject it would mean that you rejected the mercy that offered it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You have learned these things in the wrong way and you have a wrong premise for what you understand. Christ is our foundation along with what was accomplished on the cross through his death, burial and resurrection. We have to be careful how we build on the foundation. The Jews in (Acts 2) needed to repent of their unbelief in Christ as the one sent from God. This is the repentance that Peter was after for they were all Jews. Look at the message he preached and you will see what he is asking them to repent of. The baptism they were to partake of had everything to do with the name of Jesus Christ. These Jews needed to make a clean break of their rejection of Christ and be identified with him through baptism.

These Jews were going back to the nations that had gathered themselves to be in Jerusalem for Pentecost. They needed to confess the name of Christ and be converted from what they had been in bondage to through the righteousness of the law. Christ needed to be their righteousness by faith through their confession of his death, burial and resurrection and not a confession of righteousness through the deeds of the law. They needed to have their fellowship based on and rooted in the work of the cross and not based upon any repentance of sin they would confess because of transgressing the law. Their unbelief was concerning the claims of Christ which they crucified him for and for that they needed to repent so that they could be converted and times of refreshing could come to them and to those in (Acts 3) and their sins could be blotted out, the sins of rejecting Christ and living in unbelief concerning Him.

That is a false teaching that is being taught about repentance being a change going from unbelief to belief, as that is not the premise of repentance. Repentance is a change of mind toward the sins that you walked in that cause you to be enmity to God, which leads to Godly sorrow that has you not to want to walk in them any more (2 Corinthians 7:10). Faith/belief comes from hearing the word, not repentance (Romans 10:17). No scripture in the bible says remission comes immediately at first acceptance, unless you repent of your sins at that moment as well.
The baptism in Acts 2:38 is the same one commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19, which comes from the Greek word baptizo that means immersion in water.


2 Corinthians 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a false teaching that is being taught about repentance being a change going from unbelief to belief, as that is not the premise of repentance. Repentance is a change of mind toward the sins that you walked in that cause you to be enmity to God, which leads to Godly sorrow that has you not to want to walk in them any more (2 Corinthians 7:10). Faith/belief comes from hearing the word, not repentance (Romans 10:17). No scripture in the bible says remission comes immediately at first acceptance, unless you repent of your sins at that moment as well.
The baptism in Acts 2:38 is the same one commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19, which comes from the Greek word baptizo that means immersion in water.


2 Corinthians 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

actually this is in error. It is not one sin which condemns us, it is the whole law.

if one has not humbly come to the throne of God on his knees, and acknowledge he is condemned by the law he has not repented.

One does nto have to remember every sin he has ever committed in his life. for it would be impossible.

repenting of induvidual sin is no different from the law. and makes us no better than the jews.

many people claim to be christian, but claiming it is not enough. One must have true faith and repentnance. One who does, will show a changed life. one who does not, may look all holy on the outside, because he does not commit crtain sins, but on the inside, he is just as black as the man who wants nothing to do with God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

actually this is in error. It is not one sin which condemns us, it is the whole law.

if one has not humbly come to the throne of God on his knees, and acknowledge he is condemned by the law he has not repented.

One does nto have to remember every sin he has ever committed in his life. for it would be impossible.

repenting of induvidual sin is no different from the law. and makes us no better than the jews.

many people claim to be christian, but claiming it is not enough. One must have true faith and repentnance. One who does, will show a changed life. one who does not, may look all holy on the outside, because he does not commit crtain sins, but on the inside, he is just as black as the man who wants nothing to do with God.

I never said a person has to remember every sin they ever committed, which is why the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 is vague and just says trespasses/sins. And David gives us a prayer for the unknown sins in Psalm 19:12-13. The fact is repentance for sins still has to be done to receive remission for them, and then on future sins confession still has to be made for them to receive that remission as 1 John 1:9, 2:1 clearly says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said a person has to remember every sin they ever committed, which is why the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 is vague and just says trespasses/sins. And David gives us a prayer for the unknown sins in Psalm 19:12-13. The fact is repentance for sins still has to be done to receive remission for them, and then on future sins confession still has to be made for them to receive that remission as 1 John 1:9, 2:1 clearly says.

thats salvation by self effort. Not by grace through faith.

Might as well go back to the law. it is no different.

The fact is, the law condemns you every minute of every day, You can not live up to Gods standard, if you think you can. You have not yet repented. You are still dead in your sin