Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[kennethcadwell]

One of the aspects of being holy as your Father in heaven is holy is to be full of mercy and to give grace to those who do not deserve it (sinners). That is an aspect of holiness that many of you have never practiced toward the guilty. Remember what Jesus said, 'I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance' (Mt 9:13). Many professing Christians today cloth themselves with their own righteousness and ability to keep themselves from certain sins, but the Lord did not come to call them.

That is where you are wrong as I don't hold nobodies sins against them.
However what I do not do is sit back and lie to others and say sin can no longer have a consequence on your eternal life. Because by doing so leads to all ways that false teaching comes from; Telling others they can continue to live however they want and still be saved, continue in sins without repentance or confession, future sins are automatically forgiven before committed and repented/confessed of, a believer can no longer become impure do to sins. These are all false teachings that is nowhere mentioned in the bible unless one twists, uses partial scriptures, or half meanings/context of the definition of the words.

1st and 2nd Timothy; You have Apostle Paul warning Apostle Timothy on how sins can make him impure, unclean, and unrighteous again. This can not be possible if future sins are automatically forgiven and covered, making Paul's warning to Timothy useless.....This is not the only time Paul warns believers about sin..

 

[p_rehbein]

so you single me out? I'm just following the conversation.

Didn't single you out in particular, responded to your comment........."this thread begs the question.....this thread was never intended to be what it was hijacked and turned into.........this thread was hijacked by others here long before you came into the conversation..............

Like, seriously, this is the very first time there has ever been an argument on OSAS or whatever folks are all a thither over....goodness......

I wish the Mods would just "lock" it, and end all this............it has evolved into nothing worthwhile concerning the OP.

Anyway............no worries towards you............

 

[kennethcadwell]

Didn't single you out in particular, responded to your comment........."this thread begs the question.....this thread was never intended to be what it was hijacked and turned into.........this thread was hijacked by others here long before you came into the conversation..............

Like, seriously, this is the very first time there has ever been an argument on OSAS or whatever folks are all a thither over....goodness......

I wish the Mods would just "lock" it, and end all this............it has evolved into nothing worthwhile concerning the OP.

Anyway............no worries towards you............

I wanted to say sorry for getting off track on your original question, on which I answered back on the first two pages.
It's just when people question me on what I say by scripture, I then have to turn around and show them again by scripture what it says. Some people just don't like to hear the actually meaning that it is a continual verb meaning a continuation of belief, and along with echo which means mental possession. It messes up what they have been taught, but it makes the scriptures work together and not contradict by those definitions.

 

[p_rehbein]

I wanted to say sorry for getting off track on your original question, on which I answered back on the first two pages.
It's just when people question me on what I say by scripture, I then have to turn around and show them again by scripture what it says. Some people just don't like to hear the actually meaning that it is a continual verb meaning a continuation of belief, and along with echo which means mental possession. It messes up what they have been taught, but it makes the scriptures work together and not contradict by those definitions.

's-ok, I understand how threads get hijacked...............but there is a simple solution.........I try to use it, but sometimes I get caught up in the moment too...........

Simple solution is to author a new thread and argue there............not just you...........every member here should follow this idea..........me included..........

243 comments here prior to this one, and I would wager not 50 address the OP............goodness............

 

[kennethcadwell]

's-ok, I understand how threads get hijacked...............but there is a simple solution.........I try to use it, but sometimes I get caught up in the moment too...........

Simple solution is to author a new thread and argue there............not just you...........every member here should follow this idea..........me included..........

243 comments here prior to this one, and I would wager not 50 address the OP............goodness............

Yeah that would be a good solution.
People unfortunately still will not listen to go there to hash things out, I mean how many times does the NT mention obedience yet our brothers and sisters still debate not needed?

 

[newbirth]

So now you are getting into the question of whether humans are a dichotomy or a trichotomy.

no I simply post the scripture with a comment...you are the one getting into that...

 

[newbirth]

btw.....I do not fail to realize that eternal life is in Christ at all. You're saying something about me that is not true.

then what do you mean by this...

Originally Posted by Sirk

Given that we are made up of spirit soul and body....this thread begs the question. Which is the eternal part of you?

 

[Sirk]

Sorry you feel that way, as I am only trying to show you the truth in His word and not water it down to an easy believism gospel that is based on unbiblical facts. Like I said before the bible spends more than half of the NT on how to walk, and how not to walk. To say one can live however they want, or continue in willful sins and still be saved is unbiblical, and I unfortunately have seen my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ still hanging on to that philosophy that was heavily rebuked in the late 80's by many bible based pastor's, preachers, ministers.....

I've never said any of those things. I think you are about as dense as a black hole.

 

[tribesman]

Well I guess you did not read all my posts, as I stated before how I was in the church when I was younger but then walked away when I was a teenager to do my own thing which put me in a lost non-salvation state. Just like the prodigal son who walked away, and was not saved at that point. He was not back in the saved state tell he came back to the Father, just like me when I finally came back in repentance at 28 years of age. Then and only then was I headed to eternal life again, and just like the bible says as long as you continue to walk properly in the Spirit will you have eternal life.
Anybody that tells you a believer can continue in a life of willful sins without repentance/confession and still be saved, or that one who falls away can never come back in repentance is teaching falsely on both accounts. Nowhere in the bible does it say either one, unless the person themselves refuse to do those things......

The Lord our God will never take the gift and place it to where you can not have it, but to accept it falls on you. If you refuse it, turn your back on it, and/or walk away from it. You will not receive that gift because of your disobedience and unbelief....

Depressing to read your unbiblical nonsense. The prodigal son was "dead" as to his relation with his father while he was in sin, but his sonship did not end. Once he was restored unto a living relationship with his father he did not have to get a new sonship again. You obviously keep on hard to the folly that you can go in and out of salvation as you please, according to your own ability. Therefore you look to nothing else than your own self and its efforts for assurance of your erring concept of salvation. Hope you come out of this bondage to fear one day and experience the real freedom in Christ.

 

[Sirk]

then what do you mean by this...

1 Thessalonians states that there are 3 aspects us. Spirit, body and soul. Some argue that soul and spirit are the same (dichotomy) while others argue that there are 3 distinct things that make up a man (trichotomy). Corinthians talks about the natural man and the spiritual man and the carnal man. It is pretty obvious to me that the natural man is in an unsaved state but that the carnal and spiritual man are both saved......except that when man walks according to the spirit his whole being is covered (spirit soul and body) but when he walks according to the carnal man (soul, spirit and body or body soul and spirit) even though his spirit remains covered, his soul is not under the covering of his spirit. I hope I explained that right.

Here is an illustration....see if you understand: the line represents the covering of Jesus blood. Notice how the carnal driven mans soul is not covered. my illustration isn't working right. I'll try agin in the next post

 

[Sirk]

the line represents the covering of Jesus blood.

-------------
Spirit
soul
body



soul
---------
spirit
body

 

[newbirth]

the line represents the covering of Jesus blood.

-------------
Spirit
soul
body



soul
---------
spirit
body

I think I understand what you ate saying...but that is creating a middle ground...there is no middle ground in Christ....it is either you are in Christ or not ...in sin or not ...in light or in darkness...carnal and natural represents the same ...they are contrary to the Spirit and must be brought under subjection of the Spirit...

 

[Sirk]

I think I understand what you ate saying...but that is creating a middle ground...there is no middle ground in Christ....it is either you are in Christ or not ...in sin or not ...in light or in darkness...carnal and natural represents the same ...they are contrary to the Spirit and must be brought under subjection of the Spirit...

I understand but as human beings it is impossible for us to walk completely according to the spirit at all times. We will fail and walk according to our sinful nature. It doesn't mean that when we do we get kicked out of Jesus' grace. It just means that our earthy lives become subjective to the consequences of our sin. There is always a consequence for sin....even for a saved person.

 

[newbirth]

I understand but as human beings it is impossible for us to walk completely according to the spirit at all times. We will fail and walk according to our sinful nature. It doesn't mean that when we do we get kicked out of Jesus' grace. It just means that our earthy lives become subjective to the consequences of our sin. There is always a consequence for sin....even for a saved person.

sin does not have power over you ...God has given you power over sin....
no the walk is not impossible...if we obey God and follow the Spirit all things are possible....if we follow the flesh we will fail....no one gets kicked out from Christ...men are drawn away by their own lust and enticed.....if we take our eyes away from Christ we go in the direction where the eyes are focus...here Peter gives full assurance that it can be done ...

2 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

[Sirk]

sin does not have power over you ...God has given you power over sin....
no the walk is not impossible...if we obey God and follow the Spirit all things are possible....if we follow the flesh we will fail....no one gets kicked out from Christ...men are drawn away by their own lust and enticed.....if we take our eyes away from Christ we go in the direction where the eyes are focus...here Peter gives full assurance that it can be done ...

2 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4[/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

I understand...I am no longer a slave to sin but a slave to righteousness. I have been bought with a price. However, God is still teaching me and I have no where near arrived....and by the grace of God, 5 years from now I will be better and more like Jesus than I am today...but I will be no more saved by the grace of Jesus then, than I am today.

 

[tribesman]

...I will be no more saved by the grace of Jesus then, than I am today.

This is something that "newbirth" is totally blind for. You're on deaf ears there. But thx for sharing!

 

[BradC]

That is where you are wrong as I don't hold nobodies sins against them.
However what I do not do is sit back and lie to others and say sin can no longer have a consequence on your eternal life. Because by doing so leads to all ways that false teaching comes from; Telling others they can continue to live however they want and still be saved, continue in sins without repentance or confession, future sins are automatically forgiven before committed and repented/confessed of, a believer can no longer become impure do to sins. These are all false teachings that is nowhere mentioned in the bible unless one twists, uses partial scriptures, or half meanings/context of the definition of the words.

1st and 2nd Timothy; You have Apostle Paul warning Apostle Timothy on how sins can make him impure, unclean, and unrighteous again. This can not be possible if future sins are automatically forgiven and covered, making Paul's warning to Timothy useless.....This is not the only time Paul warns believers about sin..

Grace does not teach or tell anyone that it's okay to live in sin nor will grace condemn the guilty. Jesus Christ through the cross dealt with every one of man's sins on the cross and left no sin 'unjudged'. Christ did not come to judge anyone but to give his life as a ransom for sin. Did you hear that? When we believed and trusted in that ransom that was paid for our sins, our sins were wiped clean, even the ones that would befall us after we first trusted in Christ. Our trust in the cross of Christ when we believed did not only look backwards but our trust in Christ also looked forward. The cross is not only retroactive but is proactive. How could a believer be justified and made complete in Christ if only a part of his sin and sins were judged and not all?

Yes we need to be confessed up to date to partake of the Lord's supper and to have fellowship but the good news is that ALL sin was judged and that is past, present and future for all of us, otherwise it is not good news. Either the finished work is a complete and final work for sin or it is not. Understanding this and trusting in the finished work does not imply that sin is condoned in any way or manner. In fact it encourages us to put off these things that involve all works of the flesh, even the sin that easily besets us. Yes, when we are convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit we are to agree with him quickly so that we do not break fellowship and have to live in those terrible effects of the flesh and be subject to the chastening hand of the Lord. No believer wants to be chastened especially by the hand of God.

This is not a false teaching in any way but many do not understand what our relationship is with the Father through what the Son has done for us. The sin nature that we were born with was not eradicated when we believed in Christ and that is why we have a great need for mercy and grace and why we are thankful that the cross crucified that sin nature so that we can be free from its dominion. But we have to act upon the truth of what has been done on our behalf and no matter how much we fail we need to look to God by faith and continue in the light of the finished work trusting in the Lord with all our heart and not leaning on any understanding contrary to that. If it seems that people are living in unconfessed, unrepented willful sin, God looks upon the heart and deals with the heart because that is where the issues of life are (1 Sam 16:7, Prov 4:23).

 

[newbirth]

Grace does not teach or tell anyone that it's okay to live in sin nor will grace condemn the guilty. Jesus Christ through the cross dealt with every one of man's sins on the cross and left no sin 'unjudged'. Christ did not come to judge anyone but to give his life as a ransom for sin. Did you hear that? When we believed and trusted in that ransom that was paid for our sins, our sins were wiped clean, even the ones that would befall us after we first trusted in Christ. Our trust in the cross of Christ when we believed did not only look backwards but our trust in Christ also looked forward. The cross is not only retroactive but is proactive. How could a believer be justified and made complete in Christ if only a part of his sin and sins were judged and not all?

first you say Christ left no sin unjudged....then you say Christ did not come to judge...if someone is kidnapped and a ransom is paid for their release...does that ransom cover a future kidnapping????If you owe the last two payments on your mortgage and I paid off those debts...does that mean you no longer have to pay your mortgage???

Yes we need to be confessed up to date to partake of the Lord's supper and to have fellowship but the good news is that ALL sin was judged and that is past, present and future for all of us, otherwise it is not good news. Either the finished work is a complete and final work for sin or it is not. Understanding this and trusting in the finished work does not imply that sin is condoned in any way or manner. In fact it encourages us to put off these things that involve all works of the flesh, even the sin that easily besets us. Yes, when we are convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit we are to agree with him quickly so that we do not break fellowship and have to live in those terrible effects of the flesh and be subject to the chastening hand of the Lord. No believer wants to be chastened especially by the hand of God.

what is the purpose of confessing???so that your sins will be forgiven.....if you say all sins even those in the future are forgiven then why do I need to confess???? to get them forgiven again?? what sin are you talking about??...you said all sins in the future are forgiven...how can you have all sins in the future forgiven and say you have sin...are they not all forgiven???

This is not a false teaching in any way but many do not understand what our relationship is with the Father through what the Son has done for us. The sin nature that we were born with was not eradicated when we believed in Christ and that is why we have a great need for mercy and grace and why we are thankful that the cross crucified that sin nature so that we can be free from its dominion. But we have to act upon the truth of what has been done on our behalf and no matter how much we fail we need to look to God by faith and continue in the light of the finished work trusting in the Lord with all our heart and not leaning on any understanding contrary to that. If it seems that people are living in unconfessed, unrepented willful sin, God looks upon the heart and deals with the heart because that is where the issues of life are (1 Sam 16:7, Prov 4:23)

no the sin nature was not eradicated...because you did not eradicate it...
Romans 8:13

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


Romans 8:12-14Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;

[SUP]14 [/SUP]for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;



Colossians 3:4-6Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]when the Christ -- our life -- may be manifested, then also we with him shall be manifested in glory.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry --

[SUP]6 [/SUP]because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience,

 

[kennethcadwell]

Depressing to read your unbiblical nonsense. The prodigal son was "dead" as to his relation with his father while he was in sin, but his sonship did not end. Once he was restored unto a living relationship with his father he did not have to get a new sonship again. You obviously keep on hard to the folly that you can go in and out of salvation as you please, according to your own ability. Therefore you look to nothing else than your own self and its efforts for assurance of your erring concept of salvation. Hope you come out of this bondage to fear one day and experience the real freedom in Christ.

The purpose of the parable is that if you walk in sin you are not saved to eternal life, and then once he came back to the Father was he saved headed to eternal life....as it clearly says was dead (spiritual death) when he was away from the Father, but then when he came back to the Father he was alive (eternal life, spiritual salvation).
Nowhere does the bible say a person can live in willful sins and still have eternal life, for it clearly says you can not serve both sin and the Lord. If you are walking in willful sins, you are still serving that sin as Paul say;

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[tribesman]

The purpose of the parable is that if you walk in sin you are not saved to eternal life, and then once he came back to the Father was he saved headed to eternal life....as it clearly says was dead (spiritual death) when he was away from the Father, but then when he came back to the Father he was alive (eternal life, spiritual salvation).
Nowhere does the bible say a person can live in willful sins and still have eternal life, for it clearly says you can not serve both sin and the Lord. If you are walking in willful sins, you are still serving that sin as Paul say;

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You don't get the point with that parable at all, resting to your own ideas rather than receive the record of the scripture in question. The relation was broken, indeed, but the sonship never ended, so there was no new sonship regained at the will of the prodigal son, there was a renewal unto life of his relation with his father. Your concept of sin is utterly shallow and not holding water proof to biblical record. If you think you have no sin, then you are just deceived.