You Guys do know that the teachings of the New Testament are based on the Old Testament right?
Sure, the law and the prophets pointed to Christ, he fulfilled them, i.e. completed the things concernig him. So as he said "search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life and they that wich testifies of me" - paraphrase
So it would make since his teaching be based on these things, because they also proved he was the Messiah, they were a witness of them, as also the Miracles, the Father, and the HS.
But does not mean he did not change anything in their interpretation, and in the actual Law itself.
Jesus did not teach new things but rather explain the faith of the Old Testament.
True to some extent, yet the NT covers many things that were not found within the Law itself.
Like lusting, The law said thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife, yet Jesus condemned even the thoughts that that lead to adultery, "but I say unto you that whosoever looks upon another woman to lust after he has already commited adultery in his heart". This was now binding on all - Jn 12:48.
That is just one example of many, the OT said he would come and change the law:
Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold;
mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth;
I have put my spirit upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up,
nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break,
and the smoking flax shall he not quench:
he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged,
till he have set judgment in the earth:
and the isles shall wait for his law
This is why constantly you will here Jesus say: "It is written, or have you not read, or You misunderstand the scriptures. etc etc. The disciples did the same thing that is why much of the new testament is just old Testament quotes.
Of course with a new covenant must come New Laws. IF none, then what would have changed? We could not be saved under the Law of Moses, it had a purpose, it was a tutor to bring us to Christ. It taught man about sin, and showed God's laws concering it.
The NT is spritual, as even our inner thoughts are counted against us, or for us. The law of Moses was Phyiscal, it's laws, it's ordinances, it's festivals, all were a shadow of the true image, found only in the NT.
That is why Jesus said God is a spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth, for the Father seeks such to worship him.
Jesus and the Disciples constantly drew the attention of the people back to the Old Testament for their understanding of God and His ways.
Yes because, it testified that he is the Chirst. Now it is for our learnig - Rom 15:4. As you said it gives us understanding of God, yet it is not binding upon anyone, we are now under the NT.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Great passages.
This is talking about the Old Testament, there was no new Testament when this was written.
Agreed. Yet this does not exclude the NT scriptures,as the writers also knew what they were writing was scripture.
II Cor 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men
Col 1:28 - Shows also what Paul spoke concerning Christ was able to make us perfect. Scripture is the word of God, they preached the word of God, along with the old testament proving the fact Christ was the Messiah.
The Gospels are showing Jesus who taught from the Old Testament. why, because that was the scripture then and it was true and it was about Jesus.
Agreed.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Didnt know you posted this one, no need for my paraphrase - lol.
The only things that no longer apply from the Old Testament are those things which pointed to Jesus. and other than that had no other value.
Yet if we look into the things like the ten commands, all are covered in the NT. There is nothing binding upon us from the OT.
Their are principles that have not changed, such as the fact sin separtes us from God - Isa 59:1,2.
God hates divorce - Mal
So their are things like that, yet the eating of meats is clearly discussed in the NT, and it gives no boundaries. The law concernig divorce did not point to anything, it was a law given by God through Moses, Yet Jesus clearly did away with that, and gave the NT law concerning divorce - Matt 5:32, 19:9. We cannot follow both, yet the one we are under is clear. The Heb writer makes it clear the law was ready ot "vanish away" to make room for the New.
The NT covers are laws concerning morals, death, murder, adultery, in fact as Paul said the OT is for our learning, Yet one could find everything he needed to do if he only had a NT Bible.
There would be alot of knowledge lacking concerning GOd, how he dealt with sin and his people, yet since their is nothing binding, one could follow the NT fine with only reading the NT.
Col 2:14-f. Covers just about everything concerning things binding. Also Paul in writing the Col church, condemns living as though still under the law by "touch not, taste not" etc. He also calls this "will worship".
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh
Also Paul makes it a sign of Apostasy to try and bind Laws that are not commanded in the NT:
I Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving
This is why I say if one wants to abstain from certain meats because they were forbade in the OT, that is their choice, and if they feel it is a sin, they should not do it.
But when some try to bind this on others as a law we all must follow, then they are going "beyond what is written", and are in direct opposition to Paul, as he makes it clear, this is not a command we are under.
I respect anyone who says they choose not to eat pork, and would never tell them they should, yet, i will say they should never bind what the bible is not binding on anyone else, because doing so is a sin.
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by the way, anything that the New testament says is obsolete because of Jesus you will also find that it is mentioned in the Old testament.
Disagree, there are many things in NT not found in the OT. Many things. We have a totally New Covanant we are under, the church did not exist in the Old Testament in a physical sense, we have many rules for the church, we have rules for our lives, our thoughts, we have rules on how Gentiles should act to Jews, and Jews to Gentiles, that the OT did not cover concerning law of doctrine.
So If you can not back up your point of view with both the Old and the New then you have made a mistake.
Diagree again, show from the Old Testatment that the church should partake of the Lord's supper. Give on the first day of the week.
Show from the Old Testament, we are not to stone anyone today under the NT.
One witness is not enough, you must balance it with both witnesses. Show me where in the old testament that God says Pork is ok to eat or will be ok to eat or its only not ok until the messiah comes.
This logic is flawed. Under the NT, every individual book is a witness. Second, we do not have to back up the NT with the OT, the NT tells us the OT laws are nailed to the cross.
The OT told us this was going to happen. Second, the NT and the OT DO NOT condradict each other. We would have one writer saying not to eat certain meats, and another saying it is okay to eat all meat with thanksgiving. This would not be said, unless their was a change in Law. And their was.
You can not do it, thus you have one witness but even that witness is used falsely. the very scripture of the Old is given by the same Spirit as the new. Thus they are in agreement. so you need to question your position if you can only maintain it by ignoring the larger portion of the bible in favor of a obviously misapplication of the new.
Again, every book is a witness, every book is "god breathed" by the HS. THe HS tells us that the law was nailed to the cross, the HS tells us that the old was to vanish away, The HS tells us their would be a new covenant made, and the OT tells us that there MUST be change in Law, or Jesus cannot be the High Priest.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish awayHeb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood
It is hard to misapply "what God has cleansed call thou not common", "Every creature of God is good and NOTHING TO BE REFUSED" - "Every" means "all", Nothing means "no exclusions", this cannot be misapplied according to the words the HS decided to use. Obliviously, they are in conflict, but not if their was a change, in which the HS showed their was.
Test all things, Most people do not understand the Gospel because they do not get the Old Testament. If they did they would have understanding of the words of Jesus.
With some of the the things you just said, i feel you are part of the "most people", your speaking of. You cannot bind what the Bible has not, it is a sin to do so. You cannot make a law that is a sin for people to try and be under a valid law system for us. Everything has been done away, Christ is ruler now, and his words are binding, God made this clear at his transfiguration:
Matt 17L1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him
If we try to bind on people what he did not, then we are still hearing Moses and the Prophets, and NOT Him, God has made it clear whose word rules under this age of the Christ.
Because ALL authority has been given to Him in Heaven and earth - Matt 28:18, what he has bound is binding, what he has loosed is lose - Col 2:14-f. This includes all laws and ordinances before the NT.
