Response to Critique of Calvinism

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#221
#221
tribesman said:
Why MUST? I'd say they go hand in hand. It's the new man which experiences justification however.
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Why must? because God said so.. We are justified by faith.. The new man experinces justification because it is the justification which made him a new man.

LOL. Sure they do! Have I denied that? They can resist for all they like...that ability they have. But they cannot receive before God works in them "to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil.2.13).
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Yes, but they can resist to do the will of God.. which is that all men should come to repentance.

They are not going to be eternally separated because of sin, Christ paid the price for all sin. they will be eternally condemned because they rejected Christ.
 
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tdrew777

Guest
#222
#222
Going to bed. Good night all. I feel predestined for good nights sleep. SPECIAL THANKS to those who disagree with me. You are my brothers and I appreciate the debate. The debate is not just academic; there is spiritual profit. It helps me (us?) to clarify scripture. The things you have spoken will be in my mind when I return to scripture to see if they are so. If the Bereans doubted Paul's theology, the least I can do is to doubt my own.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#223
#223
tribesman said:
Would be splitting of hairs here...I am less sure of the "offer" thing...call it force then or whatever you like, its about rescuing one's heritage. So if the kids are in the fires and they don't know the first thing about it and are not willing or able to get out of the deadly danger and dad sees it and have the power to save them out of that danger - then he'll do that. That's all we need to know IMO.

We're repeating ourselves...lol.
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lol.. You make it sound so simple when it is not..

Dad gave his own life to save both sons.. One son said yes, i acccept that gift, the other said no dad, i do not want it.. You died for nothing..
 
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Abiding

Guest
#224
#224
In somes attempt to bolster Gods honor in His Sovereignty do so at the expense
of His many other attributes which includes His endless love and lovelyness, His
as David continued to say His tender mercies and lovingkindness.

But most of all in the light of His Love, is His wisdom.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

To do what He is doing with man doing what he is doing is much more glorifying to Gods
magnitude....if it simply thought out on a philosophical basis. Which i really dont give much respect to tho.
Just said that because alot of doctrine doesnt start in the word but as an answer to philosophy, which
Paul warned against.
 
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tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#225
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
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#225
eternally-gratefull said:
lol.. You make it sound so simple when it is not..
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It IS simple. Why cannot things be simple for once sake? "The simplicity that is in Christ" (2Cor.11.3).

Dad gave his own life to save both sons.. One son said yes, i acccept that gift, the other said no dad, i do not want it.. You died for nothing..
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Well...assuming dad really had the power to save both sons then he would do that. He would absolutely not had died for any one of them in vain, since his death was all that could save them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#226
#226
tribesman said:


It IS simple. Why cannot things be simple for once sake? "The simplicity that is in Christ" (2Cor.11.3).
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lol. It is simple.

God said your a sinner, Your lost, You have no hope. We can not have a relationship based on that sin.. so I must condemn you. But I loved you so much I died for you.. So I can free you from your condemnation. Here is my gift.

Do you say yes or do you say no.

simple.

Well...assuming dad really had the power to save both sons then he would do that. He would absolutely not had died for any one of them in vain, since his death was all that could save them.
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Are you saying God does not have the power? Your right, he did not die in vein. He will be seen as a loving father who died for his son,, who hated him so much, he mocked his fathers death, and rejected it.. The father is glorified, the son is rightly condemned.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#227
#227
Dying for the whole world even tho they reject it is not in vain. thats simply human input and not biblical.
As He does in His wrath to show His wrath. so He does in His Love. Its just another philosophical issue, not
biblical.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#228
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#228
eternally-gratefull said:
lol. It is simple.

God said your a sinner, Your lost, You have no hope. We can not have a relationship based on that sin.. so I must condemn you. But I loved you so much I died for you.. So I can free you from your condemnation. Here is my gift.

Do you say yes or do you say no.

simple.
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What kind of stuff is that? If you loved me so much that you died for me and that's the only way for me to be free then why do you burden me with making it all up to me to save myself?

Makes no sense at all.

Are you saying God does not have the power? Your right, he did not die in vein. He will be seen as a loving father who died for his son,, who hated him so much, he mocked his fathers death, and rejected it.. The father is glorified, the son is rightly condemned.
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*sighs* I am saying He has power and He has delivered His people, not a single soul of His sheep will be lost. Nothing of the work was frustrated or failed. I think you know it...you're just stuck into the free will thingy.

Good nite, bro.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#229
#229
tribesman said:
What kind of stuff is that? If you loved me so much that you died for me and that's the only way for me to be free then why do you burden me with making it all up to me save myself?

Makes no sense at all.
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lol.. Your funny tribe.. Nothing in there says you can save yourself. If we could save ourself, we would not have needed to trust God at all..

*sighs* I am saying He has power and He has delivered His people, not a single soul of His sheep will be lost. Nothing of the work was frustrated or failed. I think you know it...you're just stuck into the free will thingy.

Good nite, bro.
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No, Your stuck in the "faith is a work" thingy.. And not seeng how truly loving God is, so loving that no creature in all eternity will ever be able to question his love again.

He died for people when they were his enemy

He even died and offered hope to those who knew would reject him anyway.

Can't be a more loving God that this.

Now. If God did not die or offer ALL condemned people hope. but only some. then we have issues, we will be visiting this love or not love thing in the future at some point.. because people will see. God was not really a loving God after all. he just tricked us into thinking he was.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#230
#230
Simply amazing, so glad i was sheltered from this as a young Christian.
Actually i avoided it after i caught wind of it for over 40 yrs till now.
What i see is simply philosophy imposed on the bible forcing it
to give an answer. Of which find it a poor unbiblical answer indeed.

In a way i find it to be forceful on people. Watch how it corners people
sorta like the charismatics do threatening them if they dont receive
their sorcery and mysticism they are blaspheming the HolySpirit.

Are you saying God CANT choose? So the CROSS isnt enuf? Do you
think Christ died for God rejectors? In the mean time where is the gospel?
And what is so goodnews about their gospel. Its just a done deal snatchjob.
 
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Chr

Guest
#231
#231
The question is why did we chose Christ and believe in Him? Is it because we are better or smarter than those who don't.Or did God have mercy on us and was gracious to us sinners and changed our hearts and gave us faith both at the same in our Lord Jesus Christ?
 
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Chr

Guest
#232
#232
Chr said:
The question is why did we chose Christ and believe in Him? Is it because we are better or smarter than those who don't.Or did God have mercy on us and was gracious to us sinners and changed our hearts and gave us faith both at the same in our Lord Jesus Christ?
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Sorry I meant to put a question mark after the first question too
 
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Abiding

Guest
#233
#233
theres a list out there i just know it.
that question is on it because i hear
it constantly.
 
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Chr

Guest
#234
#234
Chr said:
The question is why did we chose Christ and believe in Him? Is it because we are better or smarter than those who don't?Or did God have mercy on us and was gracious to us sinners and changed our hearts and gave us faith both at the same in our Lord Jesus Christ?
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Thats the question?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#235
#235
Chr said:
The question is why did we chose Christ and believe in Him? Is it because we are better or smarter than those who don't.Or did God have mercy on us and was gracious to us sinners and changed our hearts and gave us faith both at the same in our Lord Jesus Christ?
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lol.. this better or smarter stuff is just laughable.

it is those who reject christ who think they are better ans smarter than us, we just bow to the mercy of our savior.
 
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Chr

Guest
#236
#236
eternally-gratefull said:
lol.. this better or smarter stuff is just laughable.

it is those who reject christ who think they are better ans smarter than us, we just bow to the mercy of our savior.
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Why did we bow are we less sinful or wiser in and of ourselves?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#237
#237
Chr said:
Why did we bow are we less sinful or wiser in and of ourselves?
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why? because we had enough humility to understand we can;t save ourselves. and trusted god to do ALL the work for us

it does not mean we are smarter. do you even know what the word humble means?
 
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Chr

Guest
#238
#238
eternally-gratefull said:
why? because we had enough humility to understand we can;t save ourselves. and trusted god to do ALL the work for us

it does not mean we are smarter. do you even know what the word humble means?[/

Where did that humility come from? Was it from God? or are we just naturally humble?
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Chr

Guest
#240
#240
Chr said:
eternally-gratefull said:
why? because we had enough humility to understand we can;t save ourselves. and trusted god to do ALL the work for us

it does not mean we are smarter. do you even know what the word humble means?[/

Where did that humility come from? Was it from God? or are we just naturally humble?
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If we before we got saved are proud by nature where did the humility come from?

Does God get all the glory for our salvation?
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