Rest

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 20, 2016

One of the prophets was giving them heck for all kinds of things, like worshipping idols, adultery, etc.
And they were like, whuuut?? HOW have we committed adultery, how have we dishonored God?
They were very zealous about following the law, so they thought the prophet was nuts.

Even here, some are flabbergasted when you say you have had a problem with murder.
And they insist that anger and resentments in our hearts are not murder, despite what our Lord said.

Grandpa · Jul 20, 2016

p_rehbein said:

If you read Matthew 5 and try to do everything that the Lord Jesus says to do it should be pretty clear, pretty quick, that working at the law is a heavy burden.

If you are still not convinced I wonder what do you think the Apostles were talking about in Acts 15??? A yoke which neither they, nor their fathers, could carry?

That second sentence that you bolded is my opinion. All of those who rely on their own understanding of the law and call their work at it obedience. They are burdened but don't know it. They have attempted to relieve their own burden with their philosophy. Thinking they are no worse at working at the law then their neighbor. So they must be doing fine. I think these people just haven't tried to be perfect yet. They don't really hear what the law says, in my opinion.

pottersclay · Jul 20, 2016

And now the rest of the story.....Jesus.........

(sorry grandpa had to do it.)...

Grandpa · Jul 20, 2016

miknik5 said:

Is that the rest you think the Lord is talking about?

I may not understand your question entirely. It seems like you couldn't understand being "released" from your labour and heavy burden.

Grandpa · Jul 20, 2016

p_rehbein said:

Once again... Matthew 5.

If you can do all that Matthew 5 says then great for you. It is my understanding that no one can be perfect like God, except God.

But if you can't do it, then you are like the rest of us and you do need help.

So who do you call? Who do you come to? Only the Lord Jesus Christ. Only He can do the work of making you sinless, righteous and perfect before God.

He gives you rest from trying so hard to be perfect before Him. The Lord is not fooled, He knows what you are and what you are not.

I've never studied hyper grace theology. But what I believe about the Lord Jesus Christ could be considered extremely hyper graced theology. So I wouldn't lump what I am saying into what someone else may believe. I am just trying to share my perspective of the simplicity of what I see as the gospel. I didn't have this perspective before I came to Christ. Only after coming to Christ did I start to understand what the scriptures meant.

It was like I was reading an instruction manual that I didn't 100% understand and I was trying to do all that it said and I was getting frustrated. I couldn't believe that I, of all people, couldn't do it. But then I found out that was the whole point. No one can do it. People just pretend they can. That is part of the vail, I suppose.

Grandpa · Jul 20, 2016

disciplemike said:

Haha.

Have you worked out what the Law says about being perfect like your Father in Heaven is perfect?

Do you still think it means try your best?

pottersclay · Jul 21, 2016

Just a thing I gathered over the yrs. Everyone at one time or another has said how could Israel do that with God?
I had a conversation with a j.w. not to long ago, I sensed a pride issue when he referenced Israel to be condemned by God. I had conversations with born agains, Catholics, and so on...all seem to have a pride issue in some way over the Jews.
I don't think for 1 moment God wasted 6000 yrs. In fact a pride issue can happen to anyone of us as a whole or individual.
The Jews have been the prime example of the dos and don't of God. I've seen many here who think Jesus came to change things up but that would be contrary to scripture as we have a never changing God. Learn to rest in the finished work of Jesus....humble yourselves before the Lord and your fellow man. Remembering it was grace that saved you. I used to say in the bible studies I thought a few years ago....God has a sign on his door it reads....help wanted but not needed.
It is a blessing not a duty to serve the living God. The finished work of Jesus is just, holy and truth...it has power, love and kindness, it will save or it will crush. Rest for it is perfect .

pottersclay · Jul 21, 2016

What is the rest in the finished works of Jesus Christ? Well the (I got to) has been taken out of the equation and the (I want to) has been ushered in because of the change of heart. The (look what I've done for the Lord) attitude is replaced with (look what the Lord has done).
It's all about him and not you or I. You cannot be saved any more than the next person. It is grace that saved us, not anything that we did or said. God excepting you right where you are. Dirty face and hands and all. It is the fathers good pleasure to give you The kingdom it's not nothing earned. Your sins are washed away not covered up behold the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world.
Because they are taken away there is no condemnation. So when the adversary says different he is lying.
Please stop working for God's approval you are already marked and sealed and start living the life God has ordained for you.

FreeNChrist · Jul 21, 2016

pottersclay said:

What is the rest in the finished works of Jesus Christ? Well the (I got to) has been taken out of the equation and the (I want to) has been ushered in because of the change of heart. The (look what I've done for the Lord) attitude is replaced with (look what the Lord has done).
It's all about him and not you or I. You cannot be saved any more than the next person. It is grace that saved us, not anything that we did or said. God excepting you right where you are. Dirty face and hands and all. It is the fathers good pleasure to give you The kingdom it's not nothing earned. Your sins are washed away not covered up behold the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world.
Because they are taken away there is no condemnation. So when the adversary says different he is lying.
Please stop working for God's approval you are already marked and sealed and start living the life God has ordained for you.

Good post. Biblical "rest" is rest from our laboring to make ourselves acceptable to a perfect God. It's rest that is realized only in the One who has Himself made us acceptable to God, Jesus Christ.

thepsalmist · Jul 21, 2016

disciplemike said:

If being condemned by one trespass against the law does not seem like a heavy burden to you then you must be extraordinary~

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 21, 2016

thepsalmist said:

I know I'm like a broken record but...realizing that the righteousness we have must exceed that of those who strenuously followed every small detail of the law, and realizing that this includes the inside, even our thoughts, as Jesus said, is terrifying if you truly understand it. It doesn't make you try harder or more zealously. It makes you tremble and say...but Lord, it's impossible for men!

p_rehbein · Jul 21, 2016

pottersclay said:

What is the rest in the finished works of Jesus Christ? Well the (I got to) has been taken out of the equation and the (I want to) has been ushered in because of the change of heart. The (look what I've done for the Lord) attitude is replaced with (look what the Lord has done).
It's all about him and not you or I. You cannot be saved any more than the next person. It is grace that saved us, not anything that we did or said. God excepting you right where you are. Dirty face and hands and all. It is the fathers good pleasure to give you The kingdom it's not nothing earned. Your sins are washed away not covered up behold the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world.
Because they are taken away there is no condemnation. So when the adversary says different he is lying.
Please stop working for God's approval you are already marked and sealed and start living the life God has ordained for you.

Had my pointer hovering over the "Like" option, then I got to this wee part, and uh, well, er, I need to ask you for a wee bit of clarification......is this referring to "predestination salvation?" As in the Calvinistic Theology?

notuptome · Jul 21, 2016

Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Our burden that we cannot bear is our sin debt. Jesus takes that from us and gives us eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

p_rehbein · Jul 21, 2016

Grandpa said:

I have agreed with everything you have said except for two areas that so many people KEEP bringing up to me in complete error or complete misunderstanding of what I am saying. And, I do not know why people keep doing that, unless it is because to recognize what I am saying would cause them to reevaluate what they are saying.

I agree that "part" of His rest is the "rest" from the struggles of keeping the Levitical Laws. However, I believe that there is "far more" included in our entering His "rest." It is NOT JUST LIMITED to a relief from the chains of the Levitical Laws.

As well, ONCE AGAIN, I DO NOT believe/teach/or EVEN SUGGEST that the Levitical Laws have anything to do with salvation/sanctification/justification. And, quite frankly, I am just a wee bit tired of some people (not you so much), but some people here throwing that up in my face, because they have no Spiritual understanding of the Law of Faith that I believe in, that Jesus Chrst established, and the Apostle Paul explained so very well. They can not comprehend this Law of Faith, and I sincerely believe that it is because they are so very "blinded" by seeing the word "Law" in the front of "of Faith," that they are completely unable to comprehend what the Law of Faith is and how very important it is for the Church today. That's on them............and I am so very tired of their blinded bias and false accusations towards me.

I too only began to gain insight into the Gospel of Christ when I received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and I lean on Him completely. He has never failed me, nor misled me. I do not ever put my faith, belief in or seek rest from man. Any man. And that includes the various Denominations and their Theologies.

I sincerely believe so very many Christians have yet to be sanctified with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (as exampled by those Paul spoke of in Acts). Now, they ARE saved, and are believers, but they have not yet been Sancfified with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and this truly limits their spiritual understanding of Scripture, for they are still living in the "carnal Christian" state that the Apostle Paul spoke of many times.

Anyway, I guess all of this is a waste of time, as minds are not going to be changed, hearts will remain steadfast in their beliefs, and some people here will never cease with the false accusations. It's ok, wee elephant is quite happy to be the "Resident Legalist" if that implies that I follow the guidance of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your comments. I do respect you and your opinion, even if we have some disagreements from time to time.

FreeNChrist · Jul 21, 2016

p_rehbein said:

I have agreed with everything you have said except for two areas that so many people KEEP bringing up to me in complete error or complete misunderstanding of what I am saying. And, I do not know why people keep doing that, unless it is because to recognize what I am saying would cause them to reevaluate what they are saying.

I agree that "part" of His rest is the "rest" from the struggles of keeping the Levitical Laws. However, I believe that there is "far more" included in our entering His "rest." It is NOT JUST LIMITED to a relief from the chains of the Levitical Laws.

As well, ONCE AGAIN, I DO NOT believe/teach/or EVEN SUGGEST that the Levitical Laws have anything to do with salvation/sanctification/justification. And, quite frankly, I am just a wee bit tired of some people (not you so much), but some people here throwing that up in my face, because they have no Spiritual understanding of the Law of Faith that I believe in, that Jesus Chrst established, and the Apostle Paul explained so very well. They can not comprehend this Law of Faith, and I sincerely believe that it is because they are so very "blinded" by seeing the word "Law" in the front of "of Faith," that they are completely unable to comprehend what the Law of Faith is and how very important it is for the Church today. That's on them............and I am so very tired of their blinded bias and false accusations towards me.

I too only began to gain insight into the Gospel of Christ when I received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and I lean on Him completely. He has never failed me, nor misled me. I do not ever put my faith, belief in or seek rest from man. Any man. And that includes the various Denominations and their Theologies.

I sincerely believe so very many Christians have yet to be sanctified with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (as exampled by those Paul spoke of in Acts). Now, they ARE saved, and are believers, but they have not yet been Sancfified with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and this truly limits their spiritual understanding of Scripture, for they are still living in the "carnal Christian" state that the Apostle Paul spoke of many times.

Anyway, I guess all of this is a waste of time, as minds are not going to be changed, hearts will remain steadfast in their beliefs, and some people here will never cease with the false accusations. It's ok, wee elephant is quite happy to be the "Resident Legalist" if that implies that I follow the guidance of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your comments. I do respect you and your opinion, even if we have some disagreements from time to time.

So, clear it up. What's this Law of faith??

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 21, 2016

p_rehbein said:

Hey, elephant man!
I have always been confused about what the gripe is over predestination. I truly cannot grasp what the argument is. For the life of me I can't understand it. If I keep in my remembrance that some of what God has said that seems so odd to me is simply because He always knows the end from the beginning, there seems to be no argument to me...

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 21, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

I thought he meant the law of the Spirit in him, as in when Paul said that we are not free from the law of the Spirit in us.
That is how I took him to mean anyway, but he is of age - he can explain himself.

p_rehbein · Jul 21, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Ok, just because it is you. But, either people here keep track of this, or they do not. I have posted this so many times it is not worth continuing to do so because too many people simply ignore the post, and accept what is taught in Scripture, because it does not fit their theological ideologies.

Romans 3:19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

(this speaks of the Levitical Laws of the First Covenant)

22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

(this is the introduction of the Law of Faith)

23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

(clear enough?)

28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

for additional clarification (if needed)

[h=4]The Law.................Faith

[/h]

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 21, 2016

I think that is most excellent!

FreeNChrist · Jul 21, 2016

p_rehbein said:

Ok, just because it is you. But, either people here keep track of this, or they do not. I have posted this so many times it is not worth continuing to do so because too many people simply ignore the post, and accept what is taught in Scripture, because it does not fit their theological ideologies.

Romans 3:19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

(this speaks of the Levitical Laws of the First Covenant)

22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

(this is the introduction of the Law of Faith)

23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

(clear enough?)

28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

for additional clarification (if needed)

The Law.................Faith

Okay. Now how does that fit with what you said in the other thread about how, "the message of the Law to us today is not that we must keep the laws in order to be saved, but rather that, because we are saved, we should keep these laws. The Law tells us how people who belong to God ought to live" ?

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