Revelation 12 Sign: September 23,2017

[watcher2013]

I'm sure that the 144,000 who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah during that time will have a part in preaching the gospel, as well as the two witness who will be prophesying during the first 3 1/2 years of the seven year period. Not to mention all of those who will have heard of the gathering of the church and all of the end-time events that they were told about prior to it happening. I'm sure that there will be a number of people, who after seeing these things coming to pass, will be interested in how they can avoid judgment in the lake of fire. Also, regarding the preaching of the gospel, we have the following that will take place:

"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

also the 144k when jesus comes do they include the those sealed during ezekiels chapter 9

1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. note note note

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. note

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: note

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

 

[Ahwatukee]

so angel will preach on the streets,houses and churches?
the angel here is proclaiming the hour of his judgement.

No, actually is says that the angel will be flying in midair proclaiming the eternal gospel. There won't be any churches on the earth at that time, as the church will have already been gathered. The buildings will be there.

the 144k are from tribes of israel...
they were sealed from one purpose ...to protect them from the angels destruction.

Their being sealed is not only for the purpose of being protected from those demonic beings. They obviously have a purpose during that time.

they were not mentioned preaching the gospel...thats addition my friend to the story

You are correct in that, they are not mentioned as preaching the gospel, which is why I said that "they will have some part in it." they are also referred to as "servants." so off the record, I am sure that they will have some part in preaching the gospel after the church has been removed, as well as the two witnesses.

The point is really moot, because scripture states that there will be a great number of white robe saints which no man can count from every tribe, nation, people and language during that time who will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not worship the beast his image nor receive his mark. So obviously they become believers in Christ during that time, regardless of how it happens or who preaches to them.

 

[loveme1]

The significance is growing as this date approaches.. I don't see the Rapture but an incarnation of a descendent coming to pass.. will there be strange weather and darkness? Or will all the hype be deflated come Sunday? Abide in the Shelter of the Most High through Faith in His Son and fear not.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The significance is growing as this date approaches.. I don't see the Rapture but an incarnation of a descendent coming to pass.. will there be strange weather and darkness? Or will all the hype be deflated come Sunday? Abide in the Shelter of the Most High through Faith in His Son and fear not.

Although the gathering of the church could happen on Sept. 23rd just as with any day, other than that nothing regarding Rev.12 will take place and won't until 3 1/2 years after the seven year agreement with Israel has been made.

 

[loveme1]

Although the gathering of the church could happen on Sept. 23rd just as with any day, other than that nothing regarding Rev.12 will take place and won't until 3 1/2 years after the seven year agreement with Israel has been made.

People in this world live by the stars and signs and numerology.. they that worship not the Creator.

Many are saying the Rapture of the Church happens etc.. which I don't consider because still much that will come to pass before He returns.

Yes times will change and the comfort blanket pulled but those who Trust in the Most High have no reason to fear. Because I tell you all as a Truth if GOD be for you then nothing can triumph unless it is suppose to.

Nothing is impossible for GOD and may many come to Truly believe in Him and His power.

The significance is placed but the reason not revealed.. not all can receive this yet and will come to see in time.

 

[heartofdavid]

The significance is growing as this date approaches.. I don't see the Rapture but an incarnation of a descendent coming to pass.. will there be strange weather and darkness? Or will all the hype be deflated come Sunday? Abide in the Shelter of the Most High through Faith in His Son and fear not.

Yes,the parable of the 10 virgins is vivid.

Those ready go with Jesus,but roughly half the church stays to face the AC

 

[heartofdavid]

Although the gathering of the church could happen on Sept. 23rd just as with any day, other than that nothing regarding Rev.12 will take place and won't until 3 1/2 years after the seven year agreement with Israel has been made.

Yep,the 4blood moons were a dud,but ministries made some nice profit off of it.

 

[heartofdavid]

No, actually is says that the angel will be flying in midair proclaiming the eternal gospel. There won't be any churches on the earth at that time, as the church will have already been gathered. The buildings will be there.



Their being sealed is not only for the purpose of being protected from those demonic beings. They obviously have a purpose during that time.



You are correct in that, they are not mentioned as preaching the gospel, which is why I said that "they will have some part in it." they are also referred to as "servants." so off the record, I am sure that they will have some part in preaching the gospel after the church has been removed, as well as the two witnesses.

The point is really moot, because scripture states that there will be a great number of white robe saints which no man can count from every tribe, nation, people and language during that time who will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not worship the beast his image nor receive his mark. So obviously they become believers in Christ during that time, regardless of how it happens or who preaches to them.

It seems to me that such evil is emerging and evolving in government that there is "evil unity" becoming worldwide.it is building.

That and the alignment of nations.

The human toll under previous administrations is most likely in the millions.

The world is becoming a very sick place. The democrats own the media,including google,facebook,you tube,and others.

They are forerunners of the false prophet. They are being groomed for their role with Satan.

It is happening right before our eyes.

 

[Jackson123]

I do not believe rapture will happen in sept 23, not this year. False warning is happen again and again, since 2000 years ago.

It is devil strategy to make Christian not prepare any more when the real time come.

If we prepare and not happen, next time we sale all we have and give to the certain pastor, and not happen again, after 3or 4 time, people do not believe anymore

this devil strategy not change for 2000 years

2 thesalonians 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

rapture will not happen before great tribulation

 

[Jackson123]

It happen in may country about 10 years ago, a man call himself a prophet, and he tell to his members, Jesus will come in certain date, about 50 families sold they houses, car, give money to this prophet, and they gather in the church.
Finally police rapture this prophet to the prison.

easy money, if people believe they will move to the cloud, they do not need house anymore give all to the prophet.

 

[followjesus]

No rapture. Bible says no man knows the day or the hour. But Revelation LT and every island disappeared and all the mountains were leveled. Ezekiel 13:13 I will make a stormy wind break out in my wrath,. I will make a violent wind break out in my wrath, There will also be in my anger a flooding rain, and hailstones to consume it in wrath.

Jesus said Even He did not Know, But only God the Father knew the time of the end. repeatedly Jesus , peter and paul all eplain it will come as a thief in the night when no one expects it.

there is no way for anyone to measure or predict it, Just a way to be prepared and keep the lamp burning until the day arrives..........truly, our days are numbered either way i could walk outside tomorrow and it could be my Last day on earth, infact tomorrow will be many many peoples last day around the world over 150,000 people will live thier last day tomorrow........im not sure according to Lazarus the beggars story, if people can repent once they are judged and begging for a drip of water on thier tounge........... the time is today.

 

[heartofdavid]

I do not believe rapture will happen in sept 23, not this year. False warning is happen again and again, since 2000 years ago.

It is devil strategy to make Christian not prepare any more when the real time come.

If we prepare and not happen, next time we sale all we have and give to the certain pastor, and not happen again, after 3or 4 time, people do not believe anymore

this devil strategy not change for 2000 years

2 thesalonians 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

rapture will not happen before great tribulation

That is conjecture.

It only says "revealed".

The AC is revealed,then the rapture.

....and that is definitely BEFORE the GT.

....you can not make a case,that the AC is revealed at the END of the GT. But post trib adherents need that to be the case. It isn't.

I repeat ,there are no verses indicating a post trib RAPTURE.

NONE

ZERO

ZILCH

NADA

 

[heartofdavid]

Jesus said Even He did not Know, But only God the Father knew the time of the end. repeatedly Jesus , peter and paul all eplain it will come as a thief in the night when no one expects it.

there is no way for anyone to measure or predict it, Just a way to be prepared and keep the lamp burning until the day arrives..........truly, our days are numbered either way i could walk outside tomorrow and it could be my Last day on earth, infact tomorrow will be many many peoples last day around the world over 150,000 people will live thier last day tomorrow........im not sure according to Lazarus the beggars story, if people can repent once they are judged and begging for a drip of water on thier tounge........... the time is today.

The key is " overcame"

" they overcame by the blood of the lamb,and the word of their testimony"

But wait,keep reading. " and they loved not their lives unto death" THEY DIE. THEY ALL DIE.

They,(the foolish left behind ones) at the rapture,face the AC,refuse the mark,and die.

 

[Jackson123]

That is conjecture.

It only says "revealed".

The AC is revealed,then the rapture.

....and that is definitely BEFORE the GT.

....you can not make a case,that the AC is revealed at the END of the GT. But post trib adherents need that to be the case. It isn't.

I repeat ,there are no verses indicating a post trib RAPTURE.

NONE

ZERO

ZILCH

NADA

but at least after AC being reveal, not before. That verse mention as He sit in the temple of God and worship as God, is explain there. So I believe rapture happen after all this happen.

And that is great tribulation.

 

[watcher2013]

No, actually is says that the angel will be flying in midair proclaiming the eternal gospel. There won't be any churches on the earth at that time, as the church will have already been gathered. The buildings will be there.



Their being sealed is not only for the purpose of being protected from those demonic beings. They obviously have a purpose during that time.



You are correct in that, they are not mentioned as preaching the gospel, which is why I said that "they will have some part in it." they are also referred to as "servants." so off the record, I am sure that they will have some part in preaching the gospel after the church has been removed, as well as the two witnesses.

The point is really moot, because scripture states that there will be a great number of white robe saints which no man can count from every tribe, nation, people and language during that time who will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not worship the beast his image nor receive his mark. So obviously they become believers in Christ during that time, regardless of how it happens or who preaches to them.

see that is a problem a pretrib has....when all the believers are caught up...
no one will preach to the gentiles....


and who are those in white robes from other nations...

a simple explanation is the believers are still there and will be caught up with the two witnesses. not b4 tge 7 yr tribulation

 

[Ahwatukee]

The key is " overcame"

" they overcame by the blood of the lamb,and the word of their testimony"

But wait,keep reading. " and they loved not their lives unto death" THEY DIE. THEY ALL DIE.

They,(the foolish left behind ones) at the rapture,face the AC,refuse the mark,and die.

Hey heartofdavid,

Just FYI, the words "and they loved not their lives unto death" doesn't necessarily mean that they all die. It means that they do not love there lives so much as to shrink away from death, i.e. they are willing to die for their testimony for Jesus and the word of God.

Remember, some Gentiles have to survive until Christ returns to the earth in order for there to be other people from other nations, otherwise the remnant of Israel would be the only people on the earth during the thousand years. We know that there will be Gentiles who survive because there will be a separation of the sheep and the goats when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age:

"All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

 

[Mem]

2Thessalonian

The Man of Lawlessness1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter presuming to be from us and alleging that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed.
Tribulation doesn't wait for this man's revealing as...

4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

until he is reveal, that is....


5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he will be revealed at the proper time.

we know what is restraining him, but do we know exactly what is being held back? Is it his identity, or work?

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.

since a pronoun is used in place of a noun that has already been mention, who does the pronoun 'he', here, refer back to, as their are two mentioned, both the mystery already at work and the one who now restrains it?

8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.

This gives me the impression the lawless one is done here, upon His majesty's arrival.


9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.

This passage includes the wording "would have saved" which indicates past perfect progressive tense (?)

11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

This seems to be saying that these will be abolished as well....

 

[Ahwatukee]

see that is a problem a pretrib has....when all the believers are caught up...
no one will preach to the gentiles....


and who are those in white robes from other nations...

a simple explanation is the believers are still there and will be caught up with the two witnesses. not b4 tge 7 yr tribulation

No, that is a not a problem. You make it a problem by not believing what I told you and what scripture reveals.

Those in white robes which no man can count, which are the great tribulation saints, are never referred to as the church. In fact, the word "Ekklesia" translated as "church" is never used again after the end of chapter 3.

I've already shown you from scripture that there will be the two witnesses who will probable by seen and heard by the whole earth via television. There will also flying and proclaiming the gospel during that time. And I am sure that there will be many who knew about Jesus but were living life in the flesh when he comes and will realize what has happened and what they need to do. They will most likely also spread the word of Christ.

Also, nowhere does the scripture state that anyone else is caught up with the two witnesses, just them two. Every believer in Christ has has been credited with righteousness and has been reconciled to God. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer because Jesus took it for us. That said, scripture states that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath and that Jesus rescues us from it. Therefore, the church could not be here when the two witnesses are killed, because it would put the church through the seals and trumpet judgments, which are part of God's wrath.

Instead of desperately trying to disprove that the gathering of the church takes place prior to God's wrath, it would benefit you to be open to what is being taught, instead of being immediately against it.

The wrath of God is initiated by the 1st seal being opened and therefore the church will be removed prior to the 1st seal being opened.

 

[Jackson123]

This article bellow tell what happen in Indonesia when pastor Mangapin Sibuea predict the rapture.
I try to translate as follow

nov ,10 , 2003
we remember Pastor Mangapin, a leader of Pondok Nabi sect, He prophesied that rapture will happen at November 10 2003 about 9 am to 3 pm
about 283 people gathered at siliwangi street no 75, baleendah, bandung, to welcome Jesus, and waiting for rapture. They
Given up all their possession to welcome the rapture. But as time goes by the rapture not happen even the police rapture them to the police truck, protect them from the mob, some people mad accused them of being heresy, and police arrested pastor Mangapin.



10 Nopember 2003
Kita pasti masih ingat dengan pendeta Mangapin Sibuea yang memimpin sekte Pondok Nabi. Mangapin meramalkan bahwa pengangkatan akan terjadi pada tanggal 10 Nopember 2003 sekitar pukul 09.00 s.d. 15.00 WIB. Dengan mengambil lokasi di gedung yang teletak di Jl. Siliwangi No. 75 Baleendah, Bandung, sekitar 283 orang berkumpul untuk menantikan Juruselamat dalam pengangkatan. Mereka telah menyerahkan segalanya, termasuk harta benda, untuk menyambut datangnya hari kiamat bagi seluruh dunia dan pengangkatan bagi mereka. Namun hingga waktu yang ditentukan habis, pengangkatan tidak terjadi, yang terjadi malahan mereka “diangkat” ke dalam truk polisi dan diamankan agar tidak menjadi sasaran amukan masyarakat sekitar yang menuding mereka sebagai aliran sesat. pendeta Mangapin sendiri akhirnya ditangkap polisi untuk memper-tanggung-jawabkan perbuatannya tersebut.

 

[garee]

Pay attention folks! This is what the false teaching of preterism will do to you. There is so much wrong with this interpretation with the allegorization and historicization of scripture that I wouldn't know where to even start.



It's tragic that this is even being taught.

A good place to start would be to follow the different prescriptions for rightly dividing .He has not left us a orphans without a spiritual understanding hid from natural man..looking to the historical true parables make it clear.

We can see the use of historically true parables in the two different rendering of the same event in ten commandments.

First and foremost remembering without parables Christ spoke not. Understanding parables as a source of faith the unseen is the gospel key signified in Revelation 20. The whole book is signified according to the opening statement.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signified..(semaino) where we get the word semantics; the study of the words dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to . Without parables used to signify the unseen spiritual l understanding Christ spoke not. The book of Revelation is not exempt from that prescription. 2 Corintians 4:18 it must be kept in mind at all times.

4591 semaino {say-mah'-ee-no}
from sema (a mark, of uncertain derivation); TDNT - 7:262,1015; v
AV - signify 6; 6
1) to give a sign, to signify, indicate 2) to make known

Signs point to the unseen substance they never become it.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Can’t literally see an angel, that literally has no hands. That a Hollywood thingamajig .

It is the gospel it is the key the that the gates of hell could never prevail against . It works as if it was a literal key and if a literal chain could bind a lying spirit who has no form, signified as a serpent in the parables through the scriptures.

The understanding of those parables comes is by comparing the spiritual understanding hid in the parables to the unseen spiritual understanding and not the literal understanding to the literal as the letter of the law, to the letter as that seen .

But rather the law of faith as prescribed in 2 Corinthians 4. It must be applied at all times or the spiritual meaning will be lost and up for grabs.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Study and learn how to compare the spiritual understanding to the same spirutl understanding.(faith to faith), the unseen hid to the unseen hid, the gospel

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.Rom 1:16

Not comparing walking by sight to by walking by sight as the generation of Adam, natural man. 1 Corinthians 2 helps iron it all out.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing "spiritual things with spiritual".But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:13

Don’ t be afraid to error and avoid the spiritul understanding hid .He reveals it to a kingdom of Priest (all believers)

He has given us parables like the one below to help encourage us not to give up looking for the spiritual understanding that we are privileged to seek after...

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

He is our hiding place as a God who does hide himself in parables.


The idea if the literal makes sense avoid searching out the spiritual understanding is not a biblical prescriptive for coming to the truth of the Spirit.