Revelation 12 Sign: September 23,2017

Stunnedbygrace · Sep 16, 2017

Or google? Because in your previous post, I read the same thing you said you read somewhere by googling. You went to the internet too to find it.

Ahwatukee · Sep 16, 2017

oldhermit said:

By oldhermit
I. The Divisions of the Book of Revelation

A. The first series of visions in chapters 1-11

1. Chapters 1-3 centered around God's judgment of his people – the Church.
2. Chapter 4 portrays the majesty of Jesus on the throne of heaven. This is the position of judgment.
3. Chapters 5-11 center around the Jewish persecution of the saints and God's judgment of Israel represented in the destruction of the temple, the city, and the end of the Jewish state.

B. The second set of visions in chapters 12-18

1. Chapters 12-13 will represent a new series of symbols. Chapter 12 is the unfolding of the “Mystery of God.” This chapter is a microcosm of the entire redemptive plan of God from the nation of Israel to the victory of the saints. This chapter is really nothing that has not already been seen in Revelation. It is really nothing more than a condensed version of the entire book of Revelation. It is merely an overview of the same things set forth is new symbols.
2. Chapter 14 is the celebration of the saints over the destruction of their persecutor – Israel – “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great.”
3. In chapters 15-16 the judgment of God is poured out on the nation of Rome who has emerged as the chief persecuting power.
4. Chapters 17-18 portrays the sins of the nation of Israel in its alliance with Rome.

C. The third set of visions in chapters 19-22.
1. Chapter 19 envisions the victory of the Lamb over his enemies.
2. Chapter 20 depicts the victorious Church and the destruction of all her enemies.
3. Chapters 21-22 is a picture of the Glory of the Church.

II. The Microcosm of the “Mystery of God.”

A. The woman with child, 1-2 – Israel as an appointed nation.

1. “A great sign appeared in heaven : a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,” This is the nation of Israel who has always been portrayed as the bride of Jehovah clothed in splendor. “Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine,” declares the Lord GOD. Then I bathed you with water, washed off your blood from you and anointed you with oil. I also clothed you with embroidered cloth and put sandals of porpoise skin on your feet; and I wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. I also put a ring in your nostril, earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, silk and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour, honey and oil; so you were exceedingly beautiful and advanced to royalty. Then your fame went forth among the nations on account of your beauty, for it was perfect because of My splendor which I bestowed on you,” declares the Lord GOD.” Ezekiel 16:8-14.
2. “And on her head a crown of twelve stars ;” The nations of Judah and Israel were comprised of the 12 tribes represented here by 12 stars.
3. Israel's struggle to bring forth Messiah,“And she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.”

B. The attempt by Satan to destroy the child, 3-4

1. “Then another sign appeared in heaven : and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.” We are told in verse nine that the dragon is Satan but the seven heads and seven diadems are representative of the nation of Rome. So, it is through Rome that Satan exercised his power against the woman. This beast is the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel's vision in Daniel 7:7-8. “After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. “While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.” Daniel does not mention the seven heads but focuses rather on the ten horns which were ten kings.

a. Seven heads – “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while,” 17:9-10.Thus the seven heads are the seven hills of Rome which had become the symbol of the imperial city. The woman is Jerusalem.
b. The ten horns – “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority AS kings with the beast for one hour. “These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast,” 17:12-13. (100 men serves as emperor of Rome from Augustus in 67BC to Maurice in 602AD so, why are only ten horns mentioned? Is it because the fulfillment of these events would be in the days of the tenth horn?)

* These ten horns are Roman tributary kings for none of them have received a kingdom and they derive their authority from the beast.
* The time of their power is limited as they receive authority “for one hour.” In other words, for a short period of time.
* These kings serve Rome for they “give their power and authority to the beast,”

2. “And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.” Their power has been taken away. This suggests the power of the Roman empire over the nations.
3. “And the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” Satanattempted to kill Jesus at his birth. This was a prophesied event. “Thus says the Lord, "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; She refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more.” Jeremiah 32:15. Matthew records in Matthew 2:16-18 that Jeremiah's words were fulfilled in the attempt to kill Jesus after his birth. “Then when Herod (one of the horns – a tributary king of Rome) saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi. Then what had been spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and she refused to be comforted, because they were no more.” In Daniel 7:24 we are also told that these ten horns are ten kings of the sea beast. “As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.”

C. The birth of Messiah, 5-6

1. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, (Not the Church which is always represented in the feminine) who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; This can only be Jesus. He is theone who was to rule with the nations with the rod of iron.

a. Psalms 2:9, “You shall break them with a rod of iron. You shall shatter them like earthenware.”
b. Revelation 2:27, “And he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father.”
c. Revelation 19:15, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.”

2. “And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” This is the resurrection and ascension of Jesus which was seen by Daniel 7:13-14, “I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away; and His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed.” Persecution was the method by which Satan attempted to destroy this kingdom.
3. “Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.” The Christians fled to the mountains of Pela as the Lord had warned them to do during the persecution of Jewish Christians in the time of Israel's judgment, Matthew 24:16 and Luke 21:21.

D. The defeat of Satan, 7-12

1. “And there was war in heaven”
This is notnecessarily speaking of the unseen celestial world nor is this war necessarily one that was waged in the unseen world. As a symbol, heaven is used in Revelation to represent governments and authorities.
2. Two opposing forces of good and evil – Michael and his angels vs the dragon and his angels.

a. Michael and Satan are historic enemies. Jude 9 tells us of the dispute between Michael and Satan over the body of Moses.
b. Michael is the defender of the saints while Satan is the power behind the enemies of Christianity. This war was the fulfillment of Daniel 12:1, "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.” Notice, Michale is the guardian of the people of God. He was to arise in the time of great distress to rescue the saints out of that distress.

3. The war
“Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war.” Angels represent confederate forces. The angels who where with Michael were the saints. The angels who were with the Dragon were the powers of Rome.
4. The power of the dragon is defeated. This is not talking about Satan's expulsion from heaven. This is talking about his defeat in his war against the saints. He could not overcome them.
“And there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.” The power of this government has collapsed. Hence the expression “thrown down to the earth.” This is the same imagery we saw in 9:1 with the star in heaven that had fallen to the earth representing a removal of authority or a fall of power. Not only is Satan a defeated power but his angels (the powers of Rome) are a defeated power. This does not necessarily suggest a destruction of the nation of Rome or its armies. This in not what the scene is about. This is revealing the fact that Satan and the persecuting powers of Rome have been defeated by the saints. The saints could not be overcome by the powers of persecution. Rather, they had over come the persecutors even in their deaths. "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death(Victorious martyrs). "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth (Israel) and the sea (Rome), because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time,”11-12. The antecedent of 'they' is Michael and his angels. They were able to overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimony. Testimony – preaching of the gospel is their angelic function. They are the messengers of the gospel. Their physical fate was their confrontation with death. The length of time allotted to the Devil is the 1260 days, the 42 months, the 3 and one half years.

E. The remnant is preserved from the judgment of Israel, 13-17.
The war against the nation of Israel is represented in two fronts; the war against unbelieving Israel and the war against the faithful remnant. “And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, (The destruction of Satan's power, Hebrews 2:14) he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. (Delivered from the destruction of Jerusalem). And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. (Flood of persecution by Rome). But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Christians)

Pay attention folks! This is what the false teaching of preterism will do to you. There is so much wrong with this interpretation with the allegorization and historicization of scripture that I wouldn't know where to even start.

It's tragic that this is even being taught.

Stunnedbygrace · Sep 16, 2017

MessageOfTheCross said:

Can you give the scripture that says we must bark please?

rofl

heartofdavid · Sep 16, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

It is written that the second coming is immediately after the GT.

What does he do with that,since he believes the Gt,the ac,and Babylon already happened?

The hum dinger is trying to make Israel Babylon.

heartofdavid · Sep 16, 2017

Some people keep a hammer handy for those puzzle pieces that are the "wrong" shape.

dcontroversal · Sep 16, 2017

MessageOfTheCross said:

Nice misapplication of scripture......go learn why.....

garee · Sep 16, 2017

The same ideology applied to Josef who represented the generation of Christ, the spiritual seed (not seen) It applies to any from the that generation hid from the eyes of men . Jacob is used in the same way (the nations bow down to him.) A representation of Christ not seen. Josef was not the Christ and neither was his father Jacob.

Parables provide the spiritual meaning .It was not meant that they would literally bow down to Josef . The brothers were not mixing faith in what they did hear. They took it literally by walking by sight (kill the perceived completion, out of sight out of mind) . Just as in the same way the Jews did with Christ.

Interesting portion of scripture used as a historically true parable. Without parables Christ the word of God spoke not hiding the spiritual understanding that we must compare to other spiritual understanding (the faith principle) unlocking the mysteries of the gospel

Remember the prescription for rightly dividing the word of God so that we can walk by the unseen spiritual understanding hid in parables .This would include the parable above you offered.

Jacob rebuked Josef. It was not God who did . And even then Jacob who was representing the spiritual seed, Christ... observed the saying guarding it with all his heart soul and mind...not knowing the outcome .

Gen 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

(Most likely reflecting on his own experience chapter )

Josef who was named by God to be used in parables. His name means Jehovah will add. He is still adding. He was used as type of the Son of man, to represent a suffering savor. He was thrown into a pit to represent the bottomless pit or the heart of the earth in respect to the suffering. He was given the coat of many colors to represent the righteousness of Christ and many other parables that represent the gospel in using the name Josef ..Josef was used in many parables in that way looking ahead to the coming of Christ..

The Jews were used in that way as shadows and types pointing to the substance, the Son of man ,until the time of reformation .

The time of the reformation completed the genealogy of the spiritual seed, Christ, called the generation or beginning of Christ it is found in Mathew 1.

Mat 1:1 The book of the "generation of Jesus Christ", the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Luke gives the account in respect to the seeds of the flesh of men leading back to Adam, the generation of Adam (natural unconverted man).

Josef was used to represent the Son of man in respect to his corrupted flesh as that which could age in a process of decay leading to death and the return to the lifeless, spiritless dust it was formed from.

Just as his brothers hated Josef without cause so did the Jews hate the Son of man. Just as they became jealous because their father loved Josef more than them so it was with the Jews, they hated Christ without cause. Christ called those fathers who did hate him without cause a brood of vipers.

Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours. And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him. Gen 37:3

In a companion verse comparing the spiritual meaning not seen to the same, Jacob who represented the spiritual seed( Christ) was used to represent the sweet savor of spirit life the righteousness of Christ. . God giving him the gospel represented by dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

Jacob like Josef was informed. Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: I would offer We compare that to the Genesis 37 rendering. I think it could be why Jacob observed the saying of Joseph.

And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son ( representing Christ not seen) is as the smell of a field which the LORD hath blessed:Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine: Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee. Gen 27:27

Using the raiment to represent Christ, us clothed with his righteousness the coat of many colors to represent all the kingdoms of the world. The dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine to represent the gospel as the doctrines of God that do fall as the dew of heaven :

And again using Josef as a type or shadow that pointed to Christ to represent all of the Old testament saints as those who did have the Holy Spirit in them, pointing to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow .(the first resurrection. ) In many ways the gospel went out hid in parables .

They received the end of their faith in the same way we do, by Christ's faith working in them to both will and perform His good pleasure.. Looking for the spiritual understanding, observing the things hid in parables.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time (the time of reformation) the Spirit of Christ which was "in them" did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9

heartofdavid · Sep 16, 2017

MessageOfTheCross said:

As someone already pointed out,this is a great example of why the edit option needs to be installed.

BTW, does anyone know the purpose of the"5 minute rule"?

garee · Sep 16, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Perhaps you could share why you think he called them an evil generation. I would think it those who do seek after a sign and wonders gospel, as a lying wonder or source of faith , natural unconverted man ?

I would offer an evil generation represents natural unconverted man. One who must walk by sight believing after they we receive a sign, called the generation of Adam .They would be those who killed the prophets walking by sight, as in out of sight out of mind,performing it after the three avenues of the father of lies. They were hoping their flesh would profit for something even though Christ said of his own; it profits for nothing.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

They do not walk by faith as a living hope. Not mixing faith (the unseen spiritual hid in parables in what they did hear and see. .

When they see it is according to the sign they require before they believe. That hope dies. For who hopes for that which they already have?

They are the ones in Hebrews 6 who have shared in the word of God but crucify him over and over every time they seek after a sign as a wonder (faith principle). they would be seeking after lying wonders of dead works that they offer towards God.. Even though God is no longer adding to His word Satan is free to try and deceive the elect .(the generation of Christ.)

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and "lying" wonders,.

What we perform is not considered a work of Christ faith but a work of our own..self -righteousness)
Christians have living hope that surpasses human hope that he will work in us to the end. As do all good things that work together as the Spirit of Christ that we have in us works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure( imputed righteousness)We are clothed with Christ righteousness as bright as the Sun and not be found naked as were Adam and Eve..

We having not received the promises of our new incorruptible bodies which will be neither male, or female Jew or gentile . As to the end of our faith, our new incorruptible bodies.

The apostate Jews, the generation of Adam required a sign before they could believe. Being spiritually blind they stumbled over the authority (cross) that could give them true faith and not a lying wonder that they performed, after the lust of the flesh, lust of the eye as a badge of pride.

The generation of Adam fleshly men they are the sign seekers

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:22

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Mark 8:11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Luke 11:16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.

I cant’t think of one verse that would inform or encourage us to seek after a sign as a source of faith. Observe yes. Seek after no.

He will come as a thief in the night just as in the time of Noah business will be as .usual

dcontroversal · Sep 16, 2017

garee said:

Perhaps you could share why you think he called them an evil generation. I would think it those who do seek after a sign and wonders gospel, as a lying wonder or source of faith , natural unconverted man ?

I would offer an evil generation represents natural unconverted man. One who must walk by sight believing after they we receive a sign, called the generation of Adam .They would be those who killed the prophets walking by sight, as in out of sight out of mind,performing it after the three avenues of the father of lies. They were hoping their flesh would profit for something even though Christ said of his own; it profits for nothing.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

They do not walk by faith as a living hope. Not mixing faith (the unseen spiritual hid in parables in what they did hear and see. .

When they see it is according to the sign they require before they believe. That hope dies. For who hopes for that which they already have?

They are the ones in Hebrews 6 who have shared in the word of God but crucify him over and over every time they seek after a sign as a wonder (faith principle). they would be seeking after lying wonders of dead works that they offer towards God.. Even though God is no longer adding to His word Satan is free to try and deceive the elect .(the generation of Christ.)

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and "lying" wonders,.

What we perform is not considered a work of Christ faith but a work of our own..self -righteousness)
Christians have living hope that surpasses human hope that he will work in us to the end. As do all good things that work together as the Spirit of Christ that we have in us works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure( imputed righteousness)We are clothed with Christ righteousness as bright as the Sun and not be found naked as were Adam and Eve..

We having not received the promises of our new incorruptible bodies which will be neither male, or female Jew or gentile . As to the end of our faith, our new incorruptible bodies.

The apostate Jews, the generation of Adam required a sign before they could believe. Being spiritually blind they stumbled over the authority (cross) that could give them true faith and not a lying wonder that they performed, after the lust of the flesh, lust of the eye as a badge of pride.

The generation of Adam fleshly men they are the sign seekers

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:22

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Mark 8:11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him.

Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Luke 11:16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.

I cant’t think of one verse that would inform or encourage us to seek after a sign as a source of faith. Observe yes. Seek after no.

He will come as a thief in the night just as in the time of Noah business will be as .usual

a. The sign they were seeking was applicable unto JESUS and who he was or who he was from.
b. It is not applicable unto the signs we are told to look for concerning the end of the age and the Parousia of JESUS
c. The sun, moon and stars were made for four reasons...Signs is 1st on the list
d. We are told to look fro particular events and signs surrounding the end

and the biggie....

e. We are NOT in darkness that that day should over take us as a THIEF......

Why do most quote the verse about a thief, but refuse to read down 2 or 3 more verses and quote the rest of it....WHY will it not overtake us as a thief....BECAUSE WE CAN SEE THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES........!

1ofthem · Sep 16, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I agree...We are given signs to know when it is approaching and at hand. Yet, I don't think we are going to get it down to the exact day and hour, but we do know when it is close at hand and to be prepared for it. Jesus has prepared us for this and already told us the signs to look for.

watcher2013 · Sep 16, 2017

GaryA said:

Revelation 12:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [SUP]2[/SUP] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [SUP]3[/SUP] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [SUP]4[/SUP] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Where is the "great red dragon" ( Revelation 12:3 ) standing before the woman ( Revelation 12:4 ) ???

If the woman is in the stars, shouldn't the dragon be there also? And, standing before the woman?

Do the "twelve stars" that are [ supposed to be ] "upon her head" look like a crown upon her head?

the dragon relates to the angels war in heaven. if we can see angel then we can see the dragon

watcher2013 · Sep 16, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Hello garyA,

The woman is not "in the stars," but is wearing a crown of twelve stars. The symbolism of the sun, moon and stars are revealed in Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9-10:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”

When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothersactually come and bow down to the ground before you?”

Sun = Jacob

Moon = Wife/wives

Eleven Stars = Eleven of the sons of Jacob, with Joseph being the twelfth star.

Therefore, the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, is symbolic representing the nation Israel proper.

These signs were how God revealed this information to John. The mention of the sun, moon and stars are not meant to be cosmic signs, but is to symbolically identify who the woman, the male child and who the dragon is. These people who have made this into an astrological sign are just reading into the scripture what is not there.

why then the moon must be under her feet.

dcontroversal · Sep 16, 2017

1ofthem said:

He does say no man can know the day nor the hour................what about the month or the year?

HAHAHHA stir, stir, stir that pot laa laal llalala HAHAHAHHA

Locutus · Sep 16, 2017

dcontroversal said:

That's not what Paul wrote:

1 Thess 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;

You can't exchange you for us - Paul is assuring them that the fast approaching day would not overtake them.

It would be totally redundant for him to write this to them if the day was 1900 years beyond their lifetime.

1ofthem · Sep 16, 2017

LOL... Well, I'm not sure 'bout the month or the year either...Maybe that's just me though...Might mean I need to study harder...

LOL

DaveWatchman · Sep 16, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I agree with this Dc. The evil and adulterous generation were not God's people. They were not asking for a sign of the second coming. They were asking for Jesus to do a trick for them to prove who He was.

God's People have always been curious about when the second coming would occur. When the disciples asked for a sign of His coming and of the end of the world at the mount of Olives, He gave a whole long list of signs to be on the watch for.

So that we would not be in darkness...

dcontroversal · Sep 16, 2017

Locutus said:

Sure I can....a church letter written unto a church.....it is as applicable unto us as it was them.....and the Parousia of JESUS has not taken place yet.....so.....go bark someplace else....you statement belies that you do not understand the universal application of the word unto the generation that is alive and present during the time frame this will take place.....

watcher2013 · Sep 16, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

theres a problem with this...
romas 10
13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How, then, can people call on someone they have not believed? And how can they believe in someone they have not heard about? And how can they hear without someone preaching?

15 And how can people preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are those who bring the good news!”

who will preach?the two witnesses based on jerusalem?

Stunnedbygrace · Sep 16, 2017

heartofdavid said:

I was just joking with him. I mistype pretty often too.

But all will agree that EG wins the prize.

Revelation 12 Sign: September 23,2017

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