Revelation

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Jul 22, 2014
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Jason, you have no clue what I have or have not done concerning the book of Revelation and you seem to assume a lot (bolded above) and the key words speak volumes....and it is how many times you read and STUDY something......!

MY Chronology
WHILE I BELIEVE
IF I FEEL
<----this is your biggest detriment as time and again you have rejected key words, key Greek words, phrases and truth so as to keep (YOUR) theology bro!

Originally Posted by Jason0047
I spent about two months making a Chronology of Revelation and the Olivet Discourse thru prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture and by looking at what other Bible believing Christians have said. Thru the process of creating my chronology, I was constantly re-arranging it based on the light of what Scripture said. While I believe it is how things will more than likely play out, I am not claiming to be the guy who has all Truth on the matter. For I am very open to what other believers have to say on my chronology and I would welcome their suggestions if I feel they have lots of Scripture to share concernig it (So as to be convincing).
Dear sir. Please stop being a bully by insulting me in what I say. Do you honestly believe you are being loving, humble, good, Christ like in the way that you communicate with me? When I hear you speak it is like you are beating your chest and shouting at me (or speaking in a hateful tone). It's as if you are acting like I am your arch nemesis or something. It's as if whatever you say is like gold and everyone else is dirt if they disagree with you. You have to attack what I share and put me down. Why is that? Why not discuss the Scriptures in loving and respectful way instead of making it sound like you are superior or better than me for a change. Why not love others for a change instead of coming off so hateful all the time.
 
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Dear sir. Please stop being a bully by insulting me in what I say. Do you honestly believe you are being loving, humble, good, Christ like in the way that you communicate with me? When I hear you speak it is like you are beating your chest and shouting at me (or speaking in a hateful tone). It's as if you are acting like I am your arch nemesis or something. It's as if whatever you say is like gold and everyone else is dirt if they disagree with you. You have to attack what I share and put me down. Why is that? Why not discuss the Scriptures in loving and respectful way instead of making it sound like you are superior or better than me for a change. Why not love others for a change instead of coming off so hateful all the time.
Well that is your view.....you know what they say about opinions......and I have not bullied you....how old are you Jason...if you are going to post things that are contrary I will respond....if you can't stand the heat or the debate then I suggest that you don't be so easily offended......and your use of EVERYONE is misleading and a farce at best as there are numerous people who like what I say.....soooooo what type of cheese would you like with that wine...oh I mean whine....? ;)

And to accuse me of being hateful just because you don't like the way I respond is accusatory....who accuses the brethren night and day? Is that who is leading you?
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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ding ding have a doughnut and love one another.
Only if you have a cream filled one HAH......The problem is simple....people automatically assume attitude and or anger when you cannot see facial expression, tone and or body language........What I said is the truth and he and I go around a lot based upon his (salvation lite) doctrine which he has actually named and preaches.....for the record for all to read...I do not hate anyone, I know I say very pointed things just as everyone does in here when addressing particular posts and or threads.... I might use ignorant which is not bad word and means to not know, rarely I use moronic and or stupid and if it is really bad I will say stOOpid (yes I know it is spelled wrong) I have had heat directed at me and did not cry about it, whine about it...I have had people disagree with me some easy and some in a most vehement way without crying about it.....this is a forum where subjects can be heated at times...not being easily offended is a sign of spiritual maturity......and sometimes even Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Elijah responded in ways that used sarcasm and heat.....it takes all kinds and God uses all kinds....so let us all not be so easily offended and if we cannot stand a little heat in a chat room how in the world can we expect to stand really being persecuted for the cause of Christ.....
 
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cmarieh

Guest
I know that I wasn't involved in this and I don't want to come across being judgmental and if I do I apologize. As a person who has been bullied all throughout her life I find it completely necessary to apologize even if you may not understand where you went wrong. Now, I am not taking sides on this disagreement, but my parents always taught me that it takes the bigger person to take responsibility and say I am sorry. Now, I realize neither one of you want to intentionally hurt each other in any way, right? You both are strong men and I admire each of you because neither one of you are afraid of speaking your opinion and the truth and I know that you love God, but it is of upmost importance that you do consider feelings when you post something. One thing that I do before I post anything is I pray, so that what I post comes out of love and not out of frustration. I believe spiritual maturity is learning how to take constructive criticism, but it is also learning how to apologize to somebody if they got hurt by something that was said even if we may not understand why. I mean, we don't know each other personally, right? We don't know whether one of us had a rough day and so we may take something a little more personally than others. I love hearing what you guys post, so please keep them coming. Please don't get upset with me.
 
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skylove7

Guest
One day we will never cry again...One day all sorrow will end......I may come broken to heavens door.....But when in the arms of the Saviour.... I shall be broken no more!
 
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popeye

Guest
Apply your own logic and explain how Jesus left in the above manner...

Which HORSE..NONE
WHAT judgement..NONE
accompanied what saints...NONE
vesture in blood..NONE
what sword...NONE
Name on thigh...NONE
Conqueror...NONE <----doesn't seize control over all kingdoms until the 7th TRUMP go read it

Sounds like your like manner argument is moot!

But with clouds and great glory is not.......!
Ok,start all over.You are totaly unaware that your position (i assume postrib) is in opposition to what was prophesied by the angels. It is not my fault you have painted yourself into a corner.You did this by not exploring all the pretrib rapture verses.

This is why I say it is my "job" to make you oppose the word or agree with it. I build off SCRIPTURE,not doctrine.

Watch closely (not trying to be smart-alek or ugly);
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Postribs say jesus comes to RAPTURE his bride postrib. However,that error is magnified by the "like manner" prophecy. Or you simply must relent that the angels were mistaked,deludded,drunk,or some other reaching nonsense.

Sorry but postrib rapture is doa.
 
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popeye

Guest
I know that I wasn't involved in this and I don't want to come across being judgmental and if I do I apologize. As a person who has been bullied all throughout her life I find it completely necessary to apologize even if you may not understand where you went wrong. Now, I am not taking sides on this disagreement, but my parents always taught me that it takes the bigger person to take responsibility and say I am sorry. Now, I realize neither one of you want to intentionally hurt each other in any way, right? You both are strong men and I admire each of you because neither one of you are afraid of speaking your opinion and the truth and I know that you love God, but it is of upmost importance that you do consider feelings when you post something. One thing that I do before I post anything is I pray, so that what I post comes out of love and not out of frustration. I believe spiritual maturity is learning how to take constructive criticism, but it is also learning how to apologize to somebody if they got hurt by something that was said even if we may not understand why. I mean, we don't know each other personally, right? We don't know whether one of us had a rough day and so we may take something a little more personally than others. I love hearing what you guys post, so please keep them coming. Please don't get upset with me.
Good word.
We all need to respect our fellow man,especially the brethren. Thanks fr reminding us that a little love and respect mixed in with our passionate views wont hurt and may help build the kingdom.
Nobody needs baggage off our rude pride.( I am guilty as anyone) help us Lord Jesus.
 

Ella85

Senior Member
May 9, 2014
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There will forever be debates.
I know that it is hard for a believer to read what another believer writes when it is false.
Although it is frustrating at times I do encourage one another to back off, and walk away if you do not agree then it is time to move on.
If you feel bullied, it would be in your best interest not to reply to anyone who is bullying you. If you feel you are being bullied send the person a private message and ask them what is the problem in private.
No one likes to see people (arguing) on this forum. If you show interest in a debate there should be guide lines followed.
If you do not stick to the guide lines then you should not be on the forum.
State your theology and if the other decides to become too argumentative then simply do not involve yourself in further conversation.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Well that is your view.....you know what they say about opinions......and I have not bullied you....how old are you Jason...if you are going to post things that are contrary I will respond....if you can't stand the heat or the debate then I suggest that you don't be so easily offended......and your use of EVERYONE is misleading and a farce at best as there are numerous people who like what I say.....soooooo what type of cheese would you like with that wine...oh I mean whine....?

And to accuse me of being hateful just because you don't like the way I respond is accusatory....who accuses the brethren night and day? Is that who is leading you?
It is written....

 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Only if you have a cream filled one HAH......The problem is simple....people automatically assume attitude and or anger when you cannot see facial expression, tone and or body language........What I said is the truth and he and I go around a lot based upon his (salvation lite) doctrine which he has actually named and preaches.....for the record for all to read...I do not hate anyone, I know I say very pointed things just as everyone does in here when addressing particular posts and or threads.... I might use ignorant which is not bad word and means to not know, rarely I use moronic and or stupid and if it is really bad I will say stOOpid (yes I know it is spelled wrong) I have had heat directed at me and did not cry about it, whine about it...I have had people disagree with me some easy and some in a most vehement way without crying about it.....this is a forum where subjects can be heated at times...not being easily offended is a sign of spiritual maturity......and sometimes even Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Elijah responded in ways that used sarcasm and heat.....it takes all kinds and God uses all kinds....so let us all not be so easily offended and if we cannot stand a little heat in a chat room how in the world can we expect to stand really being persecuted for the cause of Christ.....
Spirited disagreement does not necessarily connote anger. We disagree in some area my friend but remains friends and can discuss subjects we agree on and disagree on.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Spirited disagreement does not necessarily connote anger. We disagree in some area my friend but remains friends and can discuss subjects we agree on and disagree on.
Well, there is a big difference in:

Disagreeing with someone (versus)
Putting somebody down by making smart remarks in what they do.

In fact, this is not the first time I have had problems with the way he writes to me. Alot of what he says is unacceptable and it is definitely not behavior that is characterized as being a Christian in any sense of the word. In Post #78 he did not disagree with me on anything in Scripture in regards to Revelation itself so as to discuss it in a respectful way. Instead, he attacked the idea of how I created a chronology for Revelation and the Olivet Discourse in such a short amount of time (Which he has never done personally himself). He tried to compare his long years of study on Revelation as a way of comparison to my chronology. Yet they are not the same types of studies, though. Anyways, the insult did not stop there. He started picking apart what I had posted and then made baseless accussations. This is what he said in his second insult to me,

"MY Chronology
WHILE I BELIEVE
IF I FEEL<----this is your biggest detriment as time and again you have rejected key words, key Greek words, phrases and truth so as to keep (YOUR) theology bro!"

He is taking snippets here of what I said out of context to make it sound like everything I am saying concerning my chronology is "all me." Did he look at the verses? No. He just attacked what I had written in me describing my chronology. Then he says I reject "key words." What proof does he have that I did that? Did he show me where? Then he said I reject key Greek words. Again, how does he know that I didn't check the Greek? He then adds a smart remark about how I should just keep my Theology and then says, bro (When he is not in any sense of the word a friend who is loving and caring). Then he tries to pass it off like he didn't bully me and he is being like John the Baptist or Paul who got heated with others. Well, you have to look at the context as to why they got heated. The times they had gotten angry was not over discussing doctrine with other believers. Usually it had to do with dealing with sin and in trying to get people to repent. In any event, he tops it all off by saying I am an "accuser of the brethren" day and night. I am sorry, I only judge if someone judges me; And many times I just ignore what they say. So what he said was a false accusation. I do not outright attack believers or insult them all the time. If you were to see look at all my posts here, I never have come right out with guns blazing against other believers. I strive to attack the doctrine and not the person. I mean, how would you feel if he started to do the same thing to you?

Colossians 4:6
"Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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Well, there is a big difference in:

Disagreeing with someone (versus)
Putting somebody down by making smart remarks in what they do.

In fact, this is not the first time I have had problems with the way he writes to me. Alot of what he says is unacceptable and it is definitely not behavior that is characterized as being a Christian in any sense of the word. In Post #78 he did not disagree with me on anything in Scripture in regards to Revelation itself so as to discuss it in a respectful way. Instead, he attacked the idea of how I created a chronology for Revelation and the Olivet Discourse in such a short amount of time (Which he has never done personally himself). He tried to compare his long years of study on Revelation as a way of comparison to my chronology. Yet they are not the same types of studies, though. Anyways, the insult did not stop there. He started picking apart what I had posted and then made baseless accussations. This is what he said in his second insult to me,

"MY Chronology
WHILE I BELIEVE
IF I FEEL<----this is your biggest detriment as time and again you have rejected key words, key Greek words, phrases and truth so as to keep (YOUR) theology bro!"

He is taking snippets here of what I said out of context to make it sound like everything I am saying concerning my chronology is "all me." Did he look at the verses? No. He just attacked what I had written in me describing my chronology. Then he says I reject "key words." What proof does he have that I did that? Did he show me where? Then he said I reject key Greek words. Again, how does he know that I didn't check the Greek? He then adds a smart remark about how I should just keep my Theology and then says, bro (When he is not in any sense of the word a friend who is loving and caring). Then he tries to pass it off like he didn't bully me and he is being like John the Baptist or Paul who got heated with others. Well, you have to look at the context as to why they got heated. The times they had gotten angry was not over discussing doctrine with other believers. Usually it had to do with dealing with sin and in trying to get people to repent. In any event, he tops it all off by saying I am an "accuser of the brethren" day and night. I am sorry, I only judge if someone judges me; And many times I just ignore what they say. So what he said was a false accusation. I do not outright attack believers or insult them all the time. If you were to see look at all my posts here, I never have come right out with guns blazing against other believers. I strive to attack the doctrine and not the person. I mean, how would you feel if he started to do the same thing to you?

Colossians 4:6
"Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."
Could I make a suggestion? In all openness with no underlying thoughts here, may I simply suggest both of you read these passages?

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Not suggesting that either of you have done evil but the principle is go to your brother and be reconciled to him. Forgive and overlook the mistakes of others and if you think your brother has wronged you, return good to him...

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Now you guys are not enemies so how much easier would it be to practice this?

Blessings to both of you.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Spirited disagreement does not necessarily connote anger. We disagree in some area my friend but remains friends and can discuss subjects we agree on and disagree on.
AMEN and I agree........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Could I make a suggestion? In all openness with no underlying thoughts here, may I simply suggest both of you read these passages?

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

1Co 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Not suggesting that either of you have done evil but the principle is go to your brother and be reconciled to him. Forgive and overlook the mistakes of others and if you think your brother has wronged you, return good to him...

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Now you guys are not enemies so how much easier would it be to practice this?

Blessings to both of you.

Excellent verses for sure...........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Ok,start all over.You are totaly unaware that your position (i assume postrib) is in opposition to what was prophesied by the angels. It is not my fault you have painted yourself into a corner.You did this by not exploring all the pretrib rapture verses.

This is why I say it is my "job" to make you oppose the word or agree with it. I build off SCRIPTURE,not doctrine.

Watch closely (not trying to be smart-alek or ugly);
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Postribs say jesus comes to RAPTURE his bride postrib. However,that error is magnified by the "like manner" prophecy. Or you simply must relent that the angels were mistaked,deludded,drunk,or some other reaching nonsense.

Sorry but postrib rapture is doa.
Hey Popeye...the following scriptures describe Jesus coming in like manner....

Disciples see him come in the clouds
with power and great glory...Acts 1:11
Religious lost see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 26:64
Every Eye shall see him come with the clouds including the Jews....Revelation 1:7
All the tribes of the earth shall see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 24:30

Jesus is coming back with POWER and GREAT GLORY.......IN THE CLOUDS, just like he LEFT......

There is no invisible, imminent return of Jesus where we magically (poof) and everybody wonders where we went.....sorry, the return of JESUS is not the latest trailer for the left behind series.....Jesus teaches that his coming is VISIBLE and the above scriptures as well as what he states below proves his coming is visible....

Like lightning that shines out of the East to the WEST<------EVERYBODY that is not blind can see lightning
Like the (buzzards) on a dead carcass......everyone who has eyes can see the buzzards on the dead road kill

Was, IS and IS TO COME<---there is but ONE coming of JESUS, not two, three or more to come....1, and all things must jive with ONE (parousia)<-----Body presence of JESUS (translated coming in the KING JIM)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hey Popeye...the following scriptures describe Jesus coming in like manner....

Disciples see him come in the clouds
with power and great glory...Acts 1:11
Religious lost see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 26:64
Every Eye shall see him come with the clouds including the Jews....Revelation 1:7
All the tribes of the earth shall see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 24:30

Jesus is coming back with POWER and GREAT GLORY.......IN THE CLOUDS, just like he LEFT......

There is no invisible, imminent return of Jesus where we magically (poof) and everybody wonders where we went.....sorry, the return of JESUS is not the latest trailer for the left behind series.....Jesus teaches that his coming is VISIBLE and the above scriptures as well as what he states below proves his coming is visible....

Like lightning that shines out of the East to the WEST<------EVERYBODY that is not blind can see lightning
Like the (buzzards) on a dead carcass......everyone who has eyes can see the buzzards on the dead road kill

Was, IS and IS TO COME<---there is but ONE coming of JESUS, not two, three or more to come....1, and all things must jive with ONE (parousia)<-----Body presence of JESUS (translated coming in the KING JIM)
just to be devils advocate.

the rapture would not by a physical thing where everyone sees him somming, when he comes, he comes with his armies, not to gather up people ant take them to heaven and give the bema seat judgment.

the saints were already judged before he opens the first seal. long before he returns with his armies.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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just to be devils advocate.

the rapture would not by a physical thing where everyone sees him somming, when he comes, he comes with his armies, not to gather up people ant take them to heaven and give the bema seat judgment.

the saints were already judged before he opens the first seal. long before he returns with his armies.
For sure and I agree.....He resurrects/changes the saints.....rewards them in the air as Christ, while exercising Lordship over the kingdoms to the earth and as God pours out his wrath on the unbelieving world that has been gathered under the beast and his kingdom......

The 7th trump you have three things take place.....

1. The Day of the Lord commences with Jesus seizing control of all earthly Kingdoms
2. The Day of Christ commences with him resurrecting/changing and rewarding the saints, the prophets and those who fear God in the AIR
3. The Day of God commences with him pouring out his wrath on the unbelieving world gathered under the banner of the beast and his kingdom...

Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 all place the gathering of the elect/saints AFTER the great tribulation of those days....the saints/elect are gathered from the 4 winds of heaven, from the uttermost part of the earth and HEAVEN.....

At the sounding of the 7th trump time shall be no more.....

1. For the saints time no more as we get transformed into our eternal state
2. Time no more for the gentile kingdoms of the world as Jesus takes the reigns
3. Time no more for the lost as Jesus as God pours out his wrath
4. Time no more for Satan as he is bound and cast into the Lake of fire for 1000 years
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
For sure and I agree.....He resurrects/changes the saints.....rewards them in the air as Christ, while exercising Lordship over the kingdoms to the earth and as God pours out his wrath on the unbelieving world that has been gathered under the beast and his kingdom......

The 7th trump you have three things take place.....

1. The Day of the Lord commences with Jesus seizing control of all earthly Kingdoms
2. The Day of Christ commences with him resurrecting/changing and rewarding the saints, the prophets and those who fear God in the AIR
3. The Day of God commences with him pouring out his wrath on the unbelieving world gathered under the banner of the beast and his kingdom...

Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 all place the gathering of the elect/saints AFTER the great tribulation of those days....the saints/elect are gathered from the 4 winds of heaven, from the uttermost part of the earth and HEAVEN.....

At the sounding of the 7th trump time shall be no more.....

1. For the saints time no more as we get transformed into our eternal state
2. Time no more for the gentile kingdoms of the world as Jesus takes the reigns
3. Time no more for the lost as Jesus as God pours out his wrath
4. Time no more for Satan as he is bound and cast into the Lake of fire for 1000 years

I am talking abouot the scene in heaven, when the lamb opens the scroll

you have the elect, robbed in their crowns of righteousness, laying their crowns at his feet. praising the lamb who was slew for their own sins.

these are ressurected saints in heaven, already judged before the tribulation period actually begins.

the is the stickler for me.. they can;t be their unless the rapture and bema seat had already taken place. for them, the day of redemption paul spoke of has been a reality and fulfilled.