Revelation

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

When you make up a story in a joking way that is not true that tells people that I am doing something nefarious (When such is not true), you are trying to make me look bad. You hide it within a joke so as to think it makes everything okay. It doesn't.

You also claim that I have a problem with you questioning what I believe in God's Word. Well, it is one thing to express an opinion of disagreement, and it is another thing to debate and discuss Scripture in a respectful way back and forth (Which you are clearly not doing here). We are on a Bible discussion forum, my friend. Not a joke forum. If you want to insult others in a joking way, do so elswhere.

gotime · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I spent about two months making a Chronology of Revelation and the Olivet Discourse thru prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture and by looking at what other Bible believing Christians have said. Thru the process of creating my chronology, I was constantly re-arranging it based on the light of what Scripture said. While I believe it is how things will more than likely play out, I am not claiming to be the guy who has all Truth on the matter. For I am very open to what other believers have to say on my chronology and I would welcome their suggestions if I feel they have lots of Scripture to share concernig it (So as to be convincing). Now, I do need to say it is a very very large chronology and I have created commentaries (With Scripture in many cases) to explain where I am coming from. Howver, if you are interested, you can check that out here:

ECT Chronology of Revelation & the Olivet Discourse, etc. - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More

Anyways, may the Lord come quickly.
God bless you all.
And please be well.

Sorry dude lost me in the beginning with the whole pre trib rapture. But good to see you are studying these things out for yourself.

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

gotime said:

Well, thank you for at least being kind with your words. It is appreciated.

May God bless you.

gotime · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I was not trying to say I think you are completely wrong, some good stuff in there by the way.

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

gotime said:

Thank you.

It was a lot of work in comparing Scripture with Scripture, researching what others believed concerning the End Times, and prayer. My goal was to come forth with something that would please God and glorify Him.

Ella85 · Mar 17, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Well to me the key to the book is to understand the two points below.....

1. It s the REVELATION of JESUS Christ...the word REVELATION means to take the cover off, reveal, uncover...like taking the lid off of a box and revealing what is inside......JESUS came as a lowly man, suffered and died as the Son of MAN, but REVELATION now reveals HIM for who He really is and basically shows and sets forth JESUS in the following manner....I AM GOD on THRONE, I AM coming back and this is how it is all going to go down!

2. The words found in verse 3 of chapter one gives the keys to understanding the book....

a. Readeth-->ana-ginosko = to know again
b. Hear = Hear with the implication of understanding
c. Keep = Hold fast, serve, watch

And to be honest....yes the book is deep and it takes a good knowledge of numerous other books to be able to grasp Revelation...at the the end of the day the book is meant to be understood.............

i agree!

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

No, I was just thinking how I have studied through it three times, taught through it three times over the last 25 years and each study took about a year and a half and I still glean new truth every time I go thru it.......ana-ginosko TO KNOW AGAIN......and I also thought about all of the men who have studied it for years and years and still cannot figure out the whole book as compared to your claim to whip it out in 2 months........!

Viligant_Warrior · Mar 17, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Well ... perhaps the difference is by what power a study is done? God's, or your own?

Ahem ... just a thought.

Grandpa · Mar 17, 2015

gotime said:

I was wanting to see how you relate the symbolism in Revelation back to the sanctuary.

Its a thread on Revelation so it should be highly relevant.

Jason0047 · Mar 17, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Where did I say I was done in studying Revelation? Where did I say that a person should not go over and over it again? I had created a chronology of Revelation and the Olivet Discourse and pulled many other verses thru out the Bible in doing so. Did you do that before? How can you judge that which you have never done before? Besides, it is not how many times you read something. Some atheists have read the Bible many times (thinking they studied it), and yet they don't understand it. If you will take note, I was welcoming people's suggestions on the chronology. Do you realize I was looking over the chronology again recently? What does that tell you? Does it sound like I am done with the study?

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you today.
And please be well.

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Jason, you have no clue what I have or have not done concerning the book of Revelation and you seem to assume a lot (bolded above) and the key words speak volumes....and it is how many times you read and STUDY something......!

MY Chronology
WHILE I BELIEVE
IF I FEEL<----this is your biggest detriment as time and again you have rejected key words, key Greek words, phrases and truth so as to keep (YOUR) theology bro!

Originally Posted by Jason0047

I spent about two months making a Chronology of Revelation and the Olivet Discourse thru prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture and by looking at what other Bible believing Christians have said. Thru the process of creating my chronology, I was constantly re-arranging it based on the light of what Scripture said. While I believe it is how things will more than likely play out, I am not claiming to be the guy who has all Truth on the matter. For I am very open to what other believers have to say on my chronology and I would welcome their suggestions if I feel they have lots of Scripture to share concernig it (So as to be convincing).

popeye · Mar 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I spent about two months making a Chronology of Revelation and the Olivet Discourse thru prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture and by looking at what other Bible believing Christians have said. Thru the process of creating my chronology, I was constantly re-arranging it based on the light of what Scripture said. While I believe it is how things will more than likely play out, I am not claiming to be the guy who has all Truth on the matter. For I am very open to what other believers have to say on my chronology and I would welcome their suggestions if I feel they have lots of Scripture to share concernig it (So as to be convincing). Now, I do need to say it is a very very large chronology and I have created commentaries (With Scripture in many cases) to explain where I am coming from. Howver, if you are interested, you can check that out here:

ECT Chronology of Revelation & the Olivet Discourse, etc. - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More

Anyways, may the Lord come quickly.
God bless you all.
And please be well.

Nice!
Note also that the angels,at the time of Jesus "rapture" said he would come in like manner. Postribs can never make this claim. there are zero similarities in their doctrine and the angel's prophecy

Elected · Mar 17, 2015

The book of Revelation has application for us today. It has had the same application for every century. But the book of Revelation began because the first century was crying out: 'John what hope do we have being Christians if you, Peter and all the Apostles are being killed?' John writes a letter a prophetic letter to seven churches. Let us define his prophetic letter in context with 1 Corinthians 14:3: "But the person who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding, encouragement, and comfort". For what reason do we have prophecy?

upbuilding

encouragement and

comfort

The book of Revelation is more about Radical Discipleship than about the Second Coming! If we are not uplifted, encouraged and comforted, we are reading the book of Revelation wrong! The Second Coming is not a theory to be discussed but a truth to be lived. Walk in holiness!

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

popeye said:

Really.....

Disciples see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Acts 1:11
Religious lost see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 26:64
Every Eye shall see him come with the clouds including the Jews....Revelation 1:7
All the tribes of the earth shall see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 24:30

Immediately AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION of those days Matthew 24:29-31

Matthew 24:31 ANGELS gather the ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other at the sounding of the GREAT trump (AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS

MARK 13:24-27 AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION, SUN being darkened and Stars of heaven falling they shall SEE the SON of MAN coming in the clouds with power and great glory and THE ANGELS gather the ELECT from the four winds, from the UTTERMOST part of the earth and the heaven

LUKE 21:25-27 AFTER signs in the sun, moon and stars and the powers f the heavens being shaken THEY shall see the SON of MAN coming in a cloud with power and great GLORY and disciples told to look up for their REDEMPTION draweth NIGH.....

Jesus...
a) WAS<---past tense
b. IS<----present tense
c. IS TO COME<--future tense

THERE is but ONE (1) coming (parousia/body presence of Christ) and our gathering together unto HIM and according to MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, REVELATION, THESSALONIANS, DANIEL...HE COMES AFTER the great tribulation of THOSE days....there is no invisible, imminent return of Christ where the saints disappear en masse and everybody wonders where we went.......

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3 PAUL writes clearly that the COMING (PAROUSIA/BODY PRESENCE) of CHRIST and OUR GATHERING together UNTO HIM SHALL NOT come until two things have taken PLACE

1. THE APO-HYSTAMIE of humanity I.E. The complete apostatization of humanity.......
2. THE MAN of SIN be revealed the SON of PERDITION<---the BEAST A.K.A. Anti-Christ (SO CALLED)

The parable of the WHEAT and TARES also jive this as GOD begins to MOVE against the TARES first before the ANGELS as the REAPERS gather the WHEAT (SAVED) into HIS barn........

The rewarding of the SAINTS, PROPHETS and those who FEAR GOD takes PLACE at the 7th TRUMP, the LAST TRUMP when the DAY of CHRIST commences with the DAY of the LORD and the DAY of GOD

The siege and fall of JERICHO which represents ISRAEL'S first VICTORY after coming out of the wilderness of SIN when charted MATCHES the order of the SEALS and TRUMPETS precisely as found in REVELATION...INCLUDING the hidden thunders found within the 7 trumpets and the verbiage of 1st Thessalonians and 1st Corinthians testimony of the resurrection/change...

The trumpets sound as the TRUMP, SHOUT, ASCENSION and VICTORY........

I suggest you guys chunk the imminent return theology and re-evaluate based upon facts.....I used to believe the imminent return until I started seeing scriptures that contradicts it like the above.........

popeye · Mar 17, 2015

If you go back and read my post,you will see that you yourself made my point exactly.

Pay particular attention to "like manner"
Postribs have it all wrong as you have demonstrated.

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

popeye said:

No actually the scriptures prove the fallacy of your misguided argument...there is only one coming and to DENY the connection between all of the verses the say the same thing is not only foolish, but to be frank ignorant! Pay attention to the bolded and the word COME and or COMING...!

Really.....

Disciples see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Acts 1:11
Religious lost see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 26:64
Every Eye shall see him come with the clouds including the Jews....Revelation 1:7
All the tribes of the earth shall see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 24:30

Immediately AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION of those days Matthew 24:29-31

Matthew 24:31 ANGELS gather the ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other at the sounding of the GREAT trump (AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS

MARK 13:24-27 AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION, SUN being darkened and Stars of heaven falling they shall SEE the SON of MAN coming in the clouds with power and great glory and THE ANGELS gather the ELECT from the four winds, from the UTTERMOST part of the earth and the heaven

LUKE 21:25-27 AFTER signs in the sun, moon and stars and the powers f the heavens being shaken THEY shall see the SON of MAN coming in a cloud with power and great GLORY and disciples told to look up for their REDEMPTION draweth NIGH.....

Jesus...
a) WAS<---past tense
b. IS<----present tense
c. IS TO COME<--future tense

THERE is but ONE (1) coming (parousia/body presence of Christ) and our gathering together unto HIM and according to MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, REVELATION, THESSALONIANS, DANIEL...HE COMES AFTER the great tribulation of THOSE days....there is no invisible, imminent return of Christ where the saints disappear en masse and everybody wonders where we went.......

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3 PAUL writes clearly that the COMING (PAROUSIA/BODY PRESENCE) of CHRIST and OUR GATHERING together UNTO HIM SHALL NOT come until two things have taken PLACE

1. THE APO-HYSTAMIE of humanity I.E. The complete apostatization of humanity.......
2. THE MAN of SIN be revealed the SON of PERDITION<---the BEAST A.K.A. Anti-Christ (SO CALLED)

The parable of the WHEAT and TARES also jive this as GOD begins to MOVE against the TARES first before the ANGELS as the REAPERS gather the WHEAT (SAVED) into HIS barn........

The rewarding of the SAINTS, PROPHETS and those who FEAR GOD takes PLACE at the 7th TRUMP, the LAST TRUMP when the DAY of CHRIST commences with the DAY of the LORD and the DAY of GOD

The siege and fall of JERICHO which represents ISRAEL'S first VICTORY after coming out of the wilderness of SIN when charted MATCHES the order of the SEALS and TRUMPETS precisely as found in REVELATION...INCLUDING the hidden thunders found within the 7 trumpets and the verbiage of 1st Thessalonians and 1st Corinthians testimony of the resurrection/change...

The trumpets sound as the TRUMP, SHOUT, ASCENSION and VICTORY........

I suggest you guys chunk the imminent return theology and re-evaluate based upon facts.....I used to believe the imminent return until I started seeing scriptures that contradicts it like the above.......

popeye · Mar 17, 2015

"like manner"

Horses? no
Conquorer? No
Judgement? No
Accompanying saints? No
vesture dipped in blood? No
Sword in mouth? No
Name on his thigh? No

Does "like manner' apply to a lone savior,with zero judgement for his bride?
Fits perfectly.

One has to wonder how postrib ever got this far.

popeye · Mar 17, 2015

dcontroversal said:

No actually the scriptures prove the fallacy of your misguided argument...there is only one coming and to DENY the connection between all of the verses the say the same thing is not only foolish, but to be frank ignorant! Pay attention to the bolded and the word COME and or COMING...!

Really.....

Disciples see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Acts 1:11
Religious lost see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 26:64
Every Eye shall see him come with the clouds including the Jews....Revelation 1:7
All the tribes of the earth shall see him come in the clouds with power and great glory...Matthew 24:30

Immediately AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION of those days Matthew 24:29-31

Matthew 24:31 ANGELS gather the ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other at the sounding of the GREAT trump (AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS

MARK 13:24-27 AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION, SUN being darkened and Stars of heaven falling they shall SEE the SON of MAN coming in the clouds with power and great glory and THE ANGELS gather the ELECT from the four winds, from the UTTERMOST part of the earth and the heaven

LUKE 21:25-27 AFTER signs in the sun, moon and stars and the powers f the heavens being shaken THEY shall see the SON of MAN coming in a cloud with power and great GLORY and disciples told to look up for their REDEMPTION draweth NIGH.....

Jesus...
a) WAS<---past tense
b. IS<----present tense
c. IS TO COME<--future tense

THERE is but ONE (1) coming (parousia/body presence of Christ) and our gathering together unto HIM and according to MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, REVELATION, THESSALONIANS, DANIEL...HE COMES AFTER the great tribulation of THOSE days....there is no invisible, imminent return of Christ where the saints disappear en masse and everybody wonders where we went.......

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3 PAUL writes clearly that the COMING (PAROUSIA/BODY PRESENCE) of CHRIST and OUR GATHERING together UNTO HIM SHALL NOT come until two things have taken PLACE

1. THE APO-HYSTAMIE of humanity I.E. The complete apostatization of humanity.......
2. THE MAN of SIN be revealed the SON of PERDITION<---the BEAST A.K.A. Anti-Christ (SO CALLED)

The parable of the WHEAT and TARES also jive this as GOD begins to MOVE against the TARES first before the ANGELS as the REAPERS gather the WHEAT (SAVED) into HIS barn........

The rewarding of the SAINTS, PROPHETS and those who FEAR GOD takes PLACE at the 7th TRUMP, the LAST TRUMP when the DAY of CHRIST commences with the DAY of the LORD and the DAY of GOD

The siege and fall of JERICHO which represents ISRAEL'S first VICTORY after coming out of the wilderness of SIN when charted MATCHES the order of the SEALS and TRUMPETS precisely as found in REVELATION...INCLUDING the hidden thunders found within the 7 trumpets and the verbiage of 1st Thessalonians and 1st Corinthians testimony of the resurrection/change...

The trumpets sound as the TRUMP, SHOUT, ASCENSION and VICTORY........

I suggest you guys chunk the imminent return theology and re-evaluate based upon facts.....I used to believe the imminent return until I started seeing scriptures that contradicts it like the above.......

I got it the first time. You showed me how your doctrine is in total opposition to "like manner"

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

popeye said:

I really don't care what you believe...the above scriptures are evident...deny them if you want and keep believing in a magical invisible return of Jesus which contradicts the bible....no biggie to me......!

dcontroversal · Mar 17, 2015

popeye said:

Apply your own logic and explain how Jesus left in the above manner...

Which HORSE..NONE
WHAT judgement..NONE
accompanied what saints...NONE
vesture in blood..NONE
what sword...NONE
Name on thigh...NONE
Conqueror...NONE <----doesn't seize control over all kingdoms until the 7th TRUMP go read it

Sounds like your like manner argument is moot!

But with clouds and great glory is not.......!

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