Romans 6 reveals majestic glory that I once heavily overlooked. We are blessed.

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Feb 24, 2015
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There must be something wrong if following Christ creates the impression of self pride.
I would suggest someone does not understand what Christ represents or they are
distorting others perspective.

I would suggest looking at what we individually achieve and then just share that, and
avoid judging others harshly. Unless one is actually the Lord, only through our hearts
can we truly perceive where we are travelling. It is always easy to project something
on to others when the truth of where we are is very obvious to ourselves.
 
W

willybob

Guest
Greetings freeinchrist: I agree and it is just as I stated (obedience from a PURE HEART HAVING NO GUILE)..........Be blessed, keep digging, and lay build your works on a solid foundation lest they be swept away with the flood of lies that has come upon the whole earth..........................Love is obedience from the heart and doing unto others as we would have others do unto us. The first works of love is repentance and cleansing the heart of guile that we lay not any snares for our neighbors....Love is not Puppy dogs, Kitty cats, cupcakes, rainbows, flowers, hugs, and Roman Catholic hearts like the world equates to..
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Greetings freeinchrist: I agree and it is just as I stated (obedience from a PURE HEART HAVING NO GUILE)..........Be blessed, keep digging, and lay build your works on a solid foundation lest they be swept away with the flood of lies that has come upon the whole earth..........................Love is obedience from the heart and doing unto others as we would have others do unto us. The first works of love is repentance and cleansing the heart of guile that we lay not any snares for our neighbors....Love is not Puppy dogs, Kitty cats, cupcakes, rainbows, flowers, hugs, and Roman Catholic hearts like the world equates to..
God is love. If you want to love, you need Him.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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There must be something wrong if following Christ creates the impression of self pride.
I would suggest someone does not understand what Christ represents or they are
distorting others perspective.
naa its just how you percieve the bible.. you have your walk and i have mine.. the bible has nothing to do with a condenating self rightouse ambition..
I would suggest looking at what we individually achieve and then just share that, and
avoid judging others harshly. Unless one is actually the Lord, only through our hearts
can we truly perceive where we are travelling. It is always easy to project something
on to others when the truth of where we are is very obvious to ourselves.
I would suggest looking at your self individualy repent of your self rightouse doctrine and then we can move on :)
 
Feb 24, 2015
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naa its just how you percieve the bible.. you have your walk and i have mine.. the bible has nothing to do with a condenating self rightouse ambition..
I would suggest looking at your self individualy repent of your self rightouse doctrine and then we can move on :)
I am talking about being righteous conscience, understanding what God has done
in our lives and then working with it.

Your language is based on the belief God does not build us into a new creation
to His glory. Do you not know love that works within us?
His love changes and transforms us, but to recognise this in your world is to
say I am self righteous. Sounds like you do not know what I have experienced.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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I am talking about being righteous conscience, understanding what God has done
in our lives and then working with it.

Your language is based on the belief God does not build us into a new creation
to His glory. Do you not know love that works within us?
His love changes and transforms us, but to recognise this in your world is to
say I am self righteous. Sounds like you do not know what I have experienced.
reall happy for you brother sincerly i am.. i wouldn dream of saying your not saved i dont know you.. it would be cruel to call you of the devil lieraly meaning your lost for ever a zombiee..

Nope i wouldnt asume that,,, what i would asume is you have a chance and must hope for salvation not give your self that honor.. not saying that you dont just saying self priders behave with this mentality that they cant sin even when there point blank shown there error they refuse to say i was wrong sorry..

Becuase why ? because there downfall is if they confess there faults it chucks there elite status out of the window.. end of god bless
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
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i didn't read "the other two threads" so i don't know whether it was ever brought up. but 6 pages into this one, it hasn't been -- so i'm just going to put this here, because i believe it is extremely relevant to Romans 6 and the conclusion SpiritLed comes to:

For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
(Romans 7:14-25)

see, Romans 6 is not an isolated saying. it is part of a long dialogue & logical argument Paul makes. Romans is not like, say, proverbs, or a collection of parables. it is a step-by-step, systematic theological treatment of the gospel of Christ, probably the most complete in the whole of scripture. all of this book goes together - the proclamation of freedom from condemnation in Christ in Romans 8 is inseparable from the foundation built in Romans 1-7, and the reconciliation of the spiritual reality Paul enjoins us to recognize in chapter 6 is found following that chapter.

Romans 6 - the first time in this entire letter that Paul makes an imperative statement, the very first command in the whole book that he makes to believers:
consider yourselves dead to sin & alive to God in Christ Jesus. why? because you've been crucified with Him, having immersed yourself in Him. you died with Him. so how can it be that i still sin? it is no longer you that sin, because you have died in Him, and are no longer a slave to sin. instead, it is the flesh; it is sin that dwells in your flesh. what, then? put those things away - mortify ((i.e. render powerless & put to shame)) the flesh, exercising self control and giving no more occasion to the sin that dwells in your flesh to carry out its desires. desires which are no longer yours, if the truth dwells in you - but the desires of sin itself, which lives in your flesh, son of Adam 1.0

this is the command Paul gives us in Romans 6 -- you are no longer a son of Adam 1.0, you are a son of Adam 2.0
so accept reality.
think of yourself this way.
live this way - consider yourself dead as far as sin is concerned.

is that "
sinless perfectionism" ?
not in the flesh, but in the spirit.
and it's certainly not an excuse to sin all the more, since "
it's not you doing it" ((as maybe i'll be accused of for saying this)) - it's a reason to starve the flesh, so that the Spirit is instead fed.

is this "
gnosticism" ?
i say no -- but you can see how the truth of the matter can be carried further, lacking sense, to make such assertions like "
the flesh doesn't matter then" or "the more sinful we allow the flesh to be the more grace we receive"
there is a duality in us, flesh and spirit. but how can we appease the flesh and the Spirit at the same time? they walk in different directions, oppose to each other. so it's written to us to walk after the Spirit, not the flesh: and this means putting the deeds of the flesh to rest, underground, buried, entombed -- to match reality to reality, because the reality is that you have died in Christ, and no longer live to sin. if we believe this, then how could it be true that you, the you whose life is hidden in Christ, sin? wouldn't that make you alive toward sin, and "
uncrucified" ?? so John says also, no one who is in Him can make a practice of sinning. it simply cannot be. and here in this section of Romans, Paul is telling you, do not waste your time with that dead thing! repent! walk in the light, because it is your life! put away darkness, because you are dead to it now!

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

you don't like this? you don't agree with what i'm writing?

ok, that's fine - that's well. but then what does Paul mean when he says "
no longer i, but sin that dwells in me" ?

if i'm wrong, teach me. i don't want to be wrong, and i'm only speaking from my own understanding - you judge who gave me such understanding, because it isn't mine, but it was given to me: i was a man with no understanding at all, but i was changed.

 
Feb 5, 2017
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Out of curiosity what denomination church do you belong too?

Pentecostal by any chance?

How do you know you are awake and others are asleep?

Does God ever chastens you?
I was raised by non believing parents who raised my twin brother and I with great manners and morals according to todays standards. I went to a small High School in a country town of eastern Iowa. Graduated with 38 other kids in 2010, moved down to Tulsa, Oklahoma where I attended Tulsa Welding School for a year. Finished at TWS, moved back to eastern Iowa where I have been employed at a fab shop for the last 6 years. I'm 25 years old and I came to faith in Christ in a way that is probably not very common and I'm going to do my best to explain it, that you may know the manner of a person I am, and how I first came to know the Lord.

When I was probably 15 or so, being raised by an atheist father after my parents divorced at the age of 13, knowing not a single believer, had it made up in my mind that "religion" was nothing more than a tool that the weak minded people on this world used as a crutch to help them get through this life. I had it laid up in my heart this saying: "If there is a God, I'll find out when I die." My take on religion or God didn't go any farther than that which I was content with, being consumed up in my 71 Mustang that I definitely idolized, drag racing, and Rock and Roll music, along with all the other stuff guys were into which I now know is the deathly sin called fornication. Our generation here in America is so deeply immoral that I was mocked and made fun of by most guys because I didn't lose (vcard if you will), until I was 18. Men literally make it a race in this age to see who can be the first among their friends to commit fornication with a woman. And just think, people used to be outraged in the streets because of a fully dressed man swingin his hips on tv. People rebuked it greatly, condemning the "devils music".. If those people saw what the NORM is in todays ungodly world and they were to perhaps watch a Beyonce music video, or watch a beer commercial with women in bikinis, do you know what they would be saying right now? Those people that were walking with Christ would be appalled and know that the time is near. Anyways, now that I've established the person I used to be, Let me take you back 4 years ago at the ripe age of 21. Being a welder I made decent money, bought a home, lived with a roommate that was a bartender. I got very developed in a Mon.- Friday . that most people I know happily remain abiding in; working during the week drinking beer until I was at least buzzed, to weekends normally drinking entire fifths of whiskey, waking up the following morning without any recollection of what I had did for the last half of the night sometimes experiencing blackouts. Terribly bad, and definitely scary. This lifestyle is more common amongst people than it should be. My generation has been decieved to the point where they don't believe in God at all, at the most people are spiritual and use the devil's vices of Astrology and horoscopes, with meditation and crystals.

During what I would call my transition of beliefs, I was researching things like 9/11 and Bohemian Grove. As a total conspiracy buff, I spent a majority of my time trying to figure out what was going on in this world as a whole. It was upon discovering the fact that the Freemasonry elite group thatv runs the world (those who literally OWN the federal reserve, they own money, also control the governments, academia, and all mainstream media organizations around the world.) At the end of my research I concluded the astonishing fact that these evil people have literally funded both sides of every major war, and literally bow down to Lucifer, believing he is god. My conclusion is extremely real, and I understand this as a complet and total truth. And if the devil is that real, so is Jesus.

So I finally prayed to Him having found faith, and he transformed me. Chastised me in a lot of ways, ending with an OWI of which I am still dealing with, but not being able to drive to anywhere but work Nd home, I have spent the past 9 months in God's Word and prayer to Him. I live for Him every second of the day in the ways I am given to do so. I asked Him to take me over completely, I told Him that I don't want to do anything but the things He wants done, I whole-heartedly surrendered to His will. His grace and mercy is what got me to survive and reach this point of surrender in my life, and I will never turn away from Him. I have never gone to church, but we as the body of Christ are the church, so I take the Him to work and everywhere I go, His words have been written on my heart. John 14:21-23 is what it's all about. God and Jesus have made their abod in my heart. I don't have righteousness of my own, but I have them, and they are righteous and do not have a desire to sin. Therefore why will I?

With love for you and yours,
Cameron
 
W

willybob

Guest
Freeinchrist, The apostle John said how do we know that we love God, we keep His commandments, of which Jesus said are not grievous...Do you find keeping His commandments grievous? If so, then you also will find loving Him grievous. No obedience to the truth from heart purity means no love in that person.....Dig deep and diligently and build your house on the Rock, lest you be swept away in the flood of lies...The whole world lieth in wickedness saith the apostle John..
 
Feb 5, 2017
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Father,

Let us live our lives according to Your perfect will,
And walk in the Spirit, giving us assurance when we are pleasing you.
I pray you take away the false sense of peace the enemy tries to give us,
assuring us that we may continue in our sins.
Give us continually that fire and passion for you,
which makes us want more of you, and less of us.
And Father I thank you for giving us a way for us to receive your Spirit,
even though I wasn't worthy to recieve it when I asked.

Amen
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Thank God that John told us exactly what those commandments are in the New Covenant and they are definitely not grievous. They are glorious!

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Right believing in the finished work of Christ will release His life in us which will result in right living. As we behold the glory ( goodness) of the Lord as in a mirror - the Holy Spirit transforms us to reflect outwardly what has already happened in the new creation in Christ. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

As we know the love of God for us - this too will release His love in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to know His love and grace towards them.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,791
6,357
113
I was raised by non believing parents who raised my twin brother and I with great manners and morals according to todays standards. I went to a small High School in a country town of eastern Iowa. Graduated with 38 other kids in 2010, moved down to Tulsa, Oklahoma where I attended Tulsa Welding School for a year. Finished at TWS, moved back to eastern Iowa where I have been employed at a fab shop for the last 6 years. I'm 25 years old and I came to faith in Christ in a way that is probably not very common and I'm going to do my best to explain it, that you may know the manner of a person I am, and how I first came to know the Lord.

When I was probably 15 or so, being raised by an atheist father after my parents divorced at the age of 13, knowing not a single believer, had it made up in my mind that "religion" was nothing more than a tool that the weak minded people on this world used as a crutch to help them get through this life. I had it laid up in my heart this saying: "If there is a God, I'll find out when I die." My take on religion or God didn't go any farther than that which I was content with, being consumed up in my 71 Mustang that I definitely idolized, drag racing, and Rock and Roll music, along with all the other stuff guys were into which I now know is the deathly sin called fornication. Our generation here in America is so deeply immoral that I was mocked and made fun of by most guys because I didn't lose (vcard if you will), until I was 18. Men literally make it a race in this age to see who can be the first among their friends to commit fornication with a woman. And just think, people used to be outraged in the streets because of a fully dressed man swingin his hips on tv. People rebuked it greatly, condemning the "devils music".. If those people saw what the NORM is in todays ungodly world and they were to perhaps watch a Beyonce music video, or watch a beer commercial with women in bikinis, do you know what they would be saying right now? Those people that were walking with Christ would be appalled and know that the time is near. Anyways, now that I've established the person I used to be, Let me take you back 4 years ago at the ripe age of 21. Being a welder I made decent money, bought a home, lived with a roommate that was a bartender. I got very developed in a Mon.- Friday . that most people I know happily remain abiding in; working during the week drinking beer until I was at least buzzed, to weekends normally drinking entire fifths of whiskey, waking up the following morning without any recollection of what I had did for the last half of the night sometimes experiencing blackouts. Terribly bad, and definitely scary. This lifestyle is more common amongst people than it should be. My generation has been decieved to the point where they don't believe in God at all, at the most people are spiritual and use the devil's vices of Astrology and horoscopes, with meditation and crystals.

During what I would call my transition of beliefs, I was researching things like 9/11 and Bohemian Grove. As a total conspiracy buff, I spent a majority of my time trying to figure out what was going on in this world as a whole. It was upon discovering the fact that the Freemasonry elite group thatv runs the world (those who literally OWN the federal reserve, they own money, also control the governments, academia, and all mainstream media organizations around the world.) At the end of my research I concluded the astonishing fact that these evil people have literally funded both sides of every major war, and literally bow down to Lucifer, believing he is god. My conclusion is extremely real, and I understand this as a complet and total truth. And if the devil is that real, so is Jesus.

So I finally prayed to Him having found faith, and he transformed me. Chastised me in a lot of ways, ending with an OWI of which I am still dealing with, but not being able to drive to anywhere but work Nd home, I have spent the past 9 months in God's Word and prayer to Him. I live for Him every second of the day in the ways I am given to do so. I asked Him to take me over completely, I told Him that I don't want to do anything but the things He wants done, I whole-heartedly surrendered to His will. His grace and mercy is what got me to survive and reach this point of surrender in my life, and I will never turn away from Him. I have never gone to church, but we as the body of Christ are the church, so I take the Him to work and everywhere I go, His words have been written on my heart. John 14:21-23 is what it's all about. God and Jesus have made their abod in my heart. I don't have righteousness of my own, but I have them, and they are righteous and do not have a desire to sin. Therefore why will I?

With love for you and yours,
Cameron

I am 80% with you, we are not as far apart as it may seem. but, the sinless perfectionism garbage needs to go-it is not Biblical, and will turn the people that you should be waking up about the truths of the satanic system away from these truths.

we are saved by grace, that should be the focus.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Amen...

May we have God's true sense of peace found in resting in Christ's love for us and following where He leads us. May we give the light and love of God to others through our words and actions.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I am 80% with you, we are not as far apart as it may seem. but, the sinless perfectionism garbage needs to go-it is not Biblical, and will turn the people that you should be waking up about the truths of the satanic system away from these truths.

we are saved by grace, that should be the focus.
Do your remember the first year after you gave your life to Jesus and were born again?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,791
6,357
113
Do your remember the first year after you gave your life to Jesus and were born again?
yes I do aug 99- aug 2000. I never thought I was sinless. the main thing I found was how different the Bible was than the legalistic garbage that I was taught as a young person, that God loves us and wants us to turn to him,
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Freeinchrist, The apostle John said how do we know that we love God, we keep His commandments, of which Jesus said are not grievous...Do you find keeping His commandments grievous? If so, then you also will find loving Him grievous. No obedience to the truth from heart purity means no love in that person.....Dig deep and diligently and build your house on the Rock, lest you be swept away in the flood of lies...The whole world lieth in wickedness saith the apostle John..
What I find is that His love for me begets love from me.
 
Feb 5, 2017
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I am 80% with you, we are not as far apart as it may seem. but, the sinless perfectionism garbage needs to go-it is not Biblical, and will turn the people that you should be waking up about the truths of the satanic system away from these truths.

we are saved by grace, that should be the focus.
As perfectly stated by Grace70x777
"Right believing in the finished work of Christ will release His life in us which will result in right living. As we behold the glory ( goodness) of the Lord as in a mirror - the Holy Spirit transforms us to reflect outwardly what has already happened in the new creation in Christ. 2 Cor. 3:17-18"

He has released His life within me which reflects outward in the new creation I have become which is a man that no longer works iniquity but obeys the 2 commandments of Jesus in which hang all the law of the prophets.

I'm not preaching "sinless perfectionism of a sinner".. not at all, that would be impossible. I'm preaching the good news of a new creature that has been born again to a life of which is driven by the Holy Spirit. And we know Christ IS that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17).

I'm preaching the great mystery of the prophets, I'm preaching the hope of glory which is Christ in me. Stop with that sinless perfectionism nonsense, I'm preaching Christ in me.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,791
6,357
113
As perfectly stated by Grace70x777
"Right believing in the finished work of Christ will release His life in us which will result in right living. As we behold the glory ( goodness) of the Lord as in a mirror - the Holy Spirit transforms us to reflect outwardly what has already happened in the new creation in Christ. 2 Cor. 3:17-18"

He has released His life within me which reflects outward in the new creation I have become which is a man that no longer works iniquity but obeys the 2 commandments of Jesus in which hang all the law of the prophets.

I'm not preaching "sinless perfectionism of a sinner".. not at all, that would be impossible. I'm preaching the good news of a new creature that has been born again to a life of which is driven by the Holy Spirit. And we know Christ IS that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17).

I'm preaching the great mystery of the prophets, I'm preaching the hope of glory which is Christ in me. Stop with that sinless perfectionism nonsense, I'm preaching Christ in me.
all right then. we will see how it goes. God bless.
 
Feb 5, 2017
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all right then. we will see how it goes. God bless.
God bless you as well, gb9.

"3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth IS glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." -2 Corinthians 3:3-17

THE HOPE OF GLORY

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God whips given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God:
26 even the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but NOW IS MANIFEST to His saints:
27 to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; so that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 where to I also labor, striving according to His working, which works in me mightily."-Collosians 1:25-29
 
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willybob

Guest
gb9---You need to get passed the sinless perfection deception myth. Are we to be sinful perfectionists? ..The sinless perfection sacred cow was contrived by crafty men, who lie in wait with a snare to trip up men and to keep others in sin liken to themselves. ....If restraining from fornication, lying, stealing, covetness, backbiting, profane language, adultery, bearing false witness to destroy anothers character, drunkenness, vile dispositions, and all the other uncleanness that Paul said "if ye do these things ye will not inherit the kingdom" is being sinless, well amen so be it.................... Go back and read my post #86 it explains what John called sins unto death and sins not unto death.....

Jesus said once they drink straightway of the "old wine" (traditions of men) they say the old is better, thus are old wineskins hardened by the traditions of men, that burst when the new wine of grace and holiness is poured in..
 
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