Salvation as I Understand It

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,294
6,589
113
#1
SALVATION ISA GIFT OF GRACE!

Salvation: Salvation is a multi step process in my opinion, based on how I understand Scripture. Before I can fully explain my thoughts, it is necessary to establish a“base line” of Biblical beliefs from Scripture.

Step One in God’s Salvation Plan: “Called” We who are saved are called by God unto salvation. He calls us to become His children.
1) God is a Spirit. John 4:24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2) John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day

I believe that God calls us through the Holy Spirit. In that the Holy Spirit moves upon our heart, upon our spirit to make us aware of our sinful life. A life apart from God equates to a sin filled life in my opinion. To be apart from God is to be living in sin.

3) Romans 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 .) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Once we become aware of His calling, of the Holy Spirit moving upon/within us, we face a decision. This is“conviction.” Being convicted by the Holy Spirit of our sinful life apart from God, we must decide if we are going to “confess” our sins, and ask Him to forgive us of our sins, and accept into our lives as our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ. Or, we can turn and walk away, and deny Him. Sadly, there are those that do just this in my opinion, for I have known some who walked away from His calling, never to be visited by the Holy Spirit again.

Conviction leading to Confession (which can also be stated as Repentance) is when we are down on our knees and with a sincere and contrite heart confess our sinful life apart from God, and ask Him into our lives, to receive salvation through Grace. His Grace is a gift, and not of any work of ours, and that gift was purchased with the precious blood that His only begotten Son shed on Calvary’s cross. Our salvation was bought with His blood. When God bestows His gift of Grace upon us, and the blood of Christ is applied to our hearts, cleansing us of all sin, we become a “new born” believer.

1[SUP]st[/SUP]John 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5 “…Unto him that loved us, and washed us
from our sins in his own blood.”

Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”

Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”


In my opinion, this “new birth”is a “spiritual” rebirth, not a physical one. Just as Jesus spoke of to Nicodemus.

John 3:4)
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 .) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 .) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 .) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

In my opinion, this sequence of events to salvation fits perfectly together based on the “foundation/cornerstone” of salvation, and that being: “God is a Spirit” as stated above. Salvation is a “spiritual”experience/event. While it can and most often does have a dramatic effect upon our physical beings, it is first and foremost a spiritual event that forever changes us from sinner to Sons of God.

God the Spirit Being, through the Holy Spirit, moves upon our spirit to call us to Him unto salvation. That salvation being the “eternal life” of our spirit.


THUS: We have “Calling,” “Conviction,”“Confession,” and “Cleansing.” At this point, we have become an Heir to the Promise.


John3:16)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


It is important to state that at the time of our being “cleansed” of our sin, what is happening is we (our hearts/spirit) is being “baptized" in the precious blood of Jesus Christ. I refer to this as“blood baptism.” Others call it the baptism of Jesus Christ. Either way, this is the baptism unto salvation in my opinion. For unless we have been baptized into Him, we can not receive eternal life.


One final Scripture to tie this all together: Matthew 23:25)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 .) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

We have become a “newly born” spiritual child who has received the gift of Grace, and have become Heirs to the Promise. We, basically, are a cup that has been cleansed, but we are an “empty” cup at this point. We need to be “filled.”


What are we “filled” with, and how does that happen? This is where we begin our life walk with/in Christ. This is the beginning of our journey towards“sanctification.” Let us look to Scripture once again.


Hebrews10:1)
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.2 .) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins……..9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.10 .) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all……….12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 .) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14.) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.15 .) Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 .) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17.) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 .) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 .) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 .) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say,his flesh; 21 .) And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 .) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 .) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised,)

In my opinion, the path to “perfection” is a life journey of striving to live Christ like, study of the Word of God, and walking in obedience to His Commandments. There is much included in these. Many of the things Scripture tell us that we should do. Obeying the Two Greatest Commandments given to us by Jesus, good works,and much more.


Sanctification and Salvation are two different occurrences in the life of a believer. In my opinion,they may or may not happen at the same time. I have already described how salvation comes to be. But those steps I described do not “sanctify”us, rather they prepare us for sanctification.

When God writes His laws in our minds and hearts, we begin to be “filled” by Him. Surely obedience to His Commandments are necessary, and this is where “water baptism” comes in. Water baptism, in my opinion, is an act of obedience to the Commandment from Jesus Christ that we be water baptized just as He was. There are two good reasons for this other than being obedient to Him, or are the “fruit” of our obedience to Him. First, our water baptism serves as a witness to the Church that we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and that we are now one of the Body of Christ. Second, our water baptism serves as a witnessto the world that we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and that we are now a disciple of Jesus Christ. A new man! Born again! I believe water baptism is a very important act of obedience in a new believer’s life walk with Jesus Christ.
However, water baptism is not the baptism unto salvation in my opinion. It is one of the works of obedience that we must accomplish on our journey of sanctification unto perfection.

Baptism unto Salvation:

Galatians 3:27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Titus 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Peter 3:21)
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of JesusChrist:

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

(final thought; look above and reread this scripture: "and our bodies washed with pure water."

God bless.

 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#2
Great post! It was very edifying.

Just before reading your post, I was reading this scripture:

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
 
Mar 11, 2011
887
5
0
#3
1,2,3 = you, me and EVERYBODY! :cool:

Why make it complicated? when one stops Prejudising and accepts that EVERYONE"s IMPORATANT, and of course recognizes their own relationship to the Godhead, then one can be saved.

There is still a loooooooooooooooooooong day of teaching this simple message to come :( After ALL the things He has done :( Sure HAPPY that He doesn't give up :cool:
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#4
Salvation is a multi step process in my opinion
Catholicism much?

By the way, your post needs more serpent seed for WeStand to approve it entirely.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,248
6,540
113
#5
So, you really do think and meditate on the Word. Your post is beautiful. Thank you. I was not allowed to give you more rep points now, but as soon as it opens up again, I will certainly do it.

Do you think the predestination you have quoted from Romans is when we come to Yahweh? This is my understanding. If it were before incarnation, all we do here would not make much sense at all, but again, this is my understanding, thanks..again, great post.


SALVATION ISA GIFT OF GRACE!

Salvation: Salvation is a multi step process in my opinion, based on how I understand Scripture. Before I can fully explain my thoughts, it is necessary to establish a“base line” of Biblical beliefs from Scripture.

Step One in God’s Salvation Plan: “Called” We who are saved are called by God unto salvation. He calls us to become His children.
1) God is a Spirit. John 4:24) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2) John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day

I believe that God calls us through the Holy Spirit. In that the Holy Spirit moves upon our heart, upon our spirit to make us aware of our sinful life. A life apart from God equates to a sin filled life in my opinion. To be apart from God is to be living in sin.

3) Romans 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 .) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Once we become aware of His calling, of the Holy Spirit moving upon/within us, we face a decision. This is“conviction.” Being convicted by the Holy Spirit of our sinful life apart from God, we must decide if we are going to “confess” our sins, and ask Him to forgive us of our sins, and accept into our lives as our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ. Or, we can turn and walk away, and deny Him. Sadly, there are those that do just this in my opinion, for I have known some who walked away from His calling, never to be visited by the Holy Spirit again.

Conviction leading to Confession (which can also be stated as Repentance) is when we are down on our knees and with a sincere and contrite heart confess our sinful life apart from God, and ask Him into our lives, to receive salvation through Grace. His Grace is a gift, and not of any work of ours, and that gift was purchased with the precious blood that His only begotten Son shed on Calvary’s cross. Our salvation was bought with His blood. When God bestows His gift of Grace upon us, and the blood of Christ is applied to our hearts, cleansing us of all sin, we become a “new born” believer.

1[SUP]st[/SUP]John 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5 “…Unto him that loved us, and washed us
from our sins in his own blood.”

Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”

Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”


In my opinion, this “new birth”is a “spiritual” rebirth, not a physical one. Just as Jesus spoke of to Nicodemus.

John 3:4)
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 .) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 .) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 .) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

In my opinion, this sequence of events to salvation fits perfectly together based on the “foundation/cornerstone” of salvation, and that being: “God is a Spirit” as stated above. Salvation is a “spiritual”experience/event. While it can and most often does have a dramatic effect upon our physical beings, it is first and foremost a spiritual event that forever changes us from sinner to Sons of God.

God the Spirit Being, through the Holy Spirit, moves upon our spirit to call us to Him unto salvation. That salvation being the “eternal life” of our spirit.


THUS: We have “Calling,” “Conviction,”“Confession,” and “Cleansing.” At this point, we have become an Heir to the Promise.


John3:16)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


It is important to state that at the time of our being “cleansed” of our sin, what is happening is we (our hearts/spirit) is being “baptized" in the precious blood of Jesus Christ. I refer to this as“blood baptism.” Others call it the baptism of Jesus Christ. Either way, this is the baptism unto salvation in my opinion. For unless we have been baptized into Him, we can not receive eternal life.


One final Scripture to tie this all together: Matthew 23:25)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 .) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

We have become a “newly born” spiritual child who has received the gift of Grace, and have become Heirs to the Promise. We, basically, are a cup that has been cleansed, but we are an “empty” cup at this point. We need to be “filled.”


What are we “filled” with, and how does that happen? This is where we begin our life walk with/in Christ. This is the beginning of our journey towards“sanctification.” Let us look to Scripture once again.


Hebrews10:1)
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.2 .) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins……..9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.10 .) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all……….12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 .) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14.) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.15 .) Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 .) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17.) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 .) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 .) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 .) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say,his flesh; 21 .) And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 .) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 .) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised,)

In my opinion, the path to “perfection” is a life journey of striving to live Christ like, study of the Word of God, and walking in obedience to His Commandments. There is much included in these. Many of the things Scripture tell us that we should do. Obeying the Two Greatest Commandments given to us by Jesus, good works,and much more.


Sanctification and Salvation are two different occurrences in the life of a believer. In my opinion,they may or may not happen at the same time. I have already described how salvation comes to be. But those steps I described do not “sanctify”us, rather they prepare us for sanctification.

When God writes His laws in our minds and hearts, we begin to be “filled” by Him. Surely obedience to His Commandments are necessary, and this is where “water baptism” comes in. Water baptism, in my opinion, is an act of obedience to the Commandment from Jesus Christ that we be water baptized just as He was. There are two good reasons for this other than being obedient to Him, or are the “fruit” of our obedience to Him. First, our water baptism serves as a witness to the Church that we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and that we are now one of the Body of Christ. Second, our water baptism serves as a witnessto the world that we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and that we are now a disciple of Jesus Christ. A new man! Born again! I believe water baptism is a very important act of obedience in a new believer’s life walk with Jesus Christ.
However, water baptism is not the baptism unto salvation in my opinion. It is one of the works of obedience that we must accomplish on our journey of sanctification unto perfection.

Baptism unto Salvation:

Galatians 3:27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Titus 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Peter 3:21)
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of JesusChrist:

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

(final thought; look above and reread this scripture: "and our bodies washed with pure water."

God bless.

 
Mar 11, 2011
887
5
0
#6
Catholicism much?

By the way, your post needs more serpent seed for WeStand to approve it entirely.
round, round we go, lol you wouldn't be a person that holds a grudge there, would ya Jimmy? LOL ;)

Your always so cheery :)
 
Oct 16, 2013
492
3
0
#7
Salvation is a process called Theosis.U have it in thread Theosis-The purpose of human life.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#8
Is the OP saying we must be water baptized to be saved, or did I mis-read it?

Process yes, but totally justified at stage 1. The latter stage of sanctification means growing more into what Christ created us to be. And glorification - well that is after we die. So I think you have too many stages and processes!

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Hebrews 10:10

"But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life." Romans 6:22
 
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#9
Step One in God’s Salvation Plan: “Called” We who are saved are called by God unto salvation. He calls us to become His children.
1) God is a Spirit. John 4:24)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Meaning: In other words, verbal worshiping is not true worshiping, but, worshiping quietly in the spirit is.

"Be still and know" in other words.

 
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#10
So, you really do think and meditate on the Word. Your post is beautiful. Thank you. I was not allowed to give you more rep points now, but as soon as it opens up again, I will certainly do it.

Do you think the predestination you have quoted from Romans is when we come to Yahweh? This is my understanding. If it were before incarnation, all we do here would not make much sense at all, but again, this is my understanding, thanks..again, great post.

Gee, I am so happy I don't have my mind so busy with verses and chapters that I can't hear God.
"Be still and know God". T
this is a commandant, but few understand it. That is sad.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#11
Interesting that Jesus said we must be drawn to Him. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would draw men unto Him. The Holy Spirit would bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.
Paul simplifies the process to believing with the heart and confessing with the mouth.

Water baptism is one step in the sanctification process which begins after we are saved by grace through faith.

God does all the work for us all we must do is receive by believing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
Salvation is a one step Process on our part.

It is a multi step on Gods part.

Gods part.

Gave us the law which condemned us.
Came to earth and fulfilled the law, then through the cross. Has given us the ability to be saved by paying our debt.
As Roger said, Cnvicts us and shows us our need for him.
at moment of salvation, Adopts us as his child. And makes us who was dead, alive in him.
After we are saved, gives us the spirit as a guarantee, And teaches us about him. Finally resurrects us to eternal life


Our part. Believe in the name of the only begotten son of God, Trust God in all he says about us (sin) our situation (dead) and his saving work(the cross) or in other words, repent. And have faith in God
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,248
6,540
113
#13
It is so good of you to share your opinion. You know nothing of others' hearts, yet you speak for them, in public yet!
Gee, I am so happy I don't have my mind so busy with verses and chapters that I can't hear God.
"Be still and know God". T
this is a commandant, but few understand it. That is sad.
 
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#14
It is so good of you to share your opinion. You know nothing of others' hearts, yet you speak for them, in public yet!
Those are not my opinions, They come through me. I take no credit for what is given freely.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#15
Yahchanan 4:24, "24 Yahweh is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth."

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

Yahchanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Instructions that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
 
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#16
Those are not my opinions, They come through me. I take no credit for what is given freely.

I would like to add that I have been walking the path for over 40 years, I know scripture from the Holy Spirit, I do not have to study verse and chapter. I have started out as a very angry person and God took the demon out of me that resides in many.
The truth has set me free, my anger is gone and so much more. Thank God. I have had many healings.
I know you think these are opinions, but, let me tell you they are from experience, pain and much hungering and thirsting to overcome my old nature. Miracles come from the willingness to be honest with one self and not from not hate the truth. I never pray because God knows our needs. I am thankful for what has been given me.
When I was younger I did read the bible, but, now I receive the word from the Holy Spirit.
I hope this helps someone with a desire to love the truth and not resent it as so many do.
Enough said.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#17
Heres my view on the process of salvation. The gospel is preached in some shape form or fashion. A person hears it and faith is stirred and they accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Then they are saved. Sanctification is a different story but still based on faith in the work of the cross and nothing else. What else is there?
 
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#18
Yahchanan 4:24, "24 Yahweh is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth."

Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."

Yahchanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Instructions that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
Thank you, I understand.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#19
Chatter, if you are not reading the Bible you are not being fed. The Holy Spirit speaks through the Word of God. You are missing the most important part of our Christian walk and you will be easily led astray, as I believe your posts show!

Daily Bible reading is essential to any Christian. And the Holy Spirit makes it alive and real every single time you read it. I've read the Bible every year for 33 years, and still learning from it and growing!
 
Oct 12, 2013
481
0
0
#20
Thank you for your opinion, I thought I expressed myself, perhaps you don't understand that THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS TO US PERSONALLY. YOU ARE WELLCOME TO YOUR OPINION.