Salvation was NOT the free gift that Jesus gave to all of mankind!

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Eccl12and13

Guest
#21
#21
Trax said:
I'm saved and obeying the law or doing any act or good work, will not alter my salvation .....
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You did not answer the questions;

Are there actions or thoughts that you did BEFORE you were saved that you no longer engage in now?

Do you do your best NOT to do those things that you once did before getting saved?

Has your lifestyle changed since hearing God's words? Do you go to the same places, hang with the same people, engage in the same activities?

And are you not in a constant battle trying NOT to do those things you stopped doing?


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T

Trax

Guest
#22
#22
Eccl12and13 said:
I see...so you obey God's laws for those that are unsaved? Got it! And you claim you do this so as not to, "... put a stumbling block before them..."

And where are you told not to, "... put a stumbling block before them."?

Where did you receive such instructions?

And do you love God with all your heart and your neighbor likewise because of the unsaved as well? Or do you keep these laws because God commands it regardless?


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Here is one verse. There are more. I only post one, because it is something you should know.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth,
lest I make my brother to offend.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#23
#23
Eccl12and13 said:
You did not answer the questions;

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I told you something you needed to hear. Answering your questions would have just clouded up
the important stuff. So I just posted the important info.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#24
#24
Trax said:
Here is one verse. There are more. I only post one, because it is something you should know.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth,
lest I make my brother to offend.
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So....you do it because you are commanded!

Got it!

And do you love God with all your heart and your neighbor likewise because of the unsaved as well? Or do you keep these laws because God commands it regardless?



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Eccl12and13

Guest
#25
#25
Consider this......Jesus is going to return to this earth to rule for 1000 years. At that time will there be any doubt as to whether or not Jesus is real? Will there be any doubt as to whether or not He is God? Of course not. The whole world will know AND have faith that Jesus is in fact God!

Now what happens AFTER the 1000 years are over? Faith in Jesus is no longer a question, for man would have been taught by God Himself for 1000 years.

So what is it that will determine whether or not a person receives salvation after Satan is loosed to deceive the nations?

What standard will Jesus use to judge those He has taught for 1000 years?


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B

BananaPie

Guest
#26
#26
Eccl12and13 said:
James 2
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So...what is the difference between you that believe in Jesus and the demons that know and believe in Jesus?

Will they be saved based upon their belief?
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No, demons are not humans. An agnostic may also "believe that there is one God," yet that agnostic rejects salvation in Jesus. Moslems also "believe that there is one god," yet all Moslems don't believe Jesus can save their souls from damnation.

Inasmuch as salvation is freely AVAILABLE to all humans, only those humans responding favorably towards God are redeemed.

Therefore, the difference between demons who believe that there is one God and the redeemed who believe that there is one God is Jesus.

BTW, I have been agreeing with you. Do you not agree with me?
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#27
#27
BananaPie said:
....only those humans responding favorably towards God are redeemed.

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Please explain the above!

Do you mean, "...only those humans responding favorably towards God are "rewarded with eternal life".?

Because according to the scriptures....ALL have been redeemed;

Gal.3
[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:



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resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#28
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#28
Jesus died for our sins, but he expects us to repent of our sin.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#29
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#29
Eccl12and13 said:
Readers....it is clear that the free gift that Jesus gave to ALL of mankind was NOT salvation....it was the shedding of His BLOOD that removed the sins of the world.
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That's what salvation is. It is being rescued from the kingdom of darkness, in which a person is trapped in their sins, and receiving forgiveness and being translated into the kingdom of God.

Our Salvation is not based upon our performance but on His Love and Mercy.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Those two verses contradict your theology at every turn. Does your bible still have them in there?



Like I asked in the beginning of this post.....IF it was salvation that was given as the free gift......and IF salvation cannot be taken away, that would mean that ALL will be saved!
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Salvation is the priceless gift that we are given by the Sacrifice of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. It is available to all men but it is not received by all men. The forgiveness of sins is available to all men but is not received by all men. The taking down of all the strongholds against Him are available to all men but is not received by all men. Rest from our works are available to all men but are not received by all men.

Once Salvation is given by God and received by us it is not taken away. God doesn't take away His Gifts.

Romans 6:22-23
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.



 
B

BananaPie

Guest
#30
#30
Eccl12and13 said:
Do you mean, "...only those humans responding favorably towards God are "rewarded with eternal life".?

Because according to the scriptures....ALL have been redeemed;

Gal.3
[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.
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There is no difference between those redeemed and those who have responded favorably to God's FREE salvation (Ephesians 1:6-7). The redeemed are those who have repented from their perversion, believing that only Jesus has saved them from permanent death.

Hence, yes, the reward of the redeemed is permanent existance with God and Jesus (Colossians 1:13-14).
 
K

Kefa52

Guest
#31
#31
2 Petre 3:9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. Jl 2:12-13; Jnh 3:10; 4:2; Ac 17:31; Rm 2:4

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant I will make with themafter those days, says the Lord:I will put My laws on their heartsand write them on their minds

I'm done.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#32
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
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#32
Eccl12and13 said:

But did Jesus give salvation to ALL of mankind when He died, or did the shedding of His blood make salvation AVAILABLE to all of mankind when He died?

Because if Jesus gave salvation to all of mankind AND if salvation cannot be taken away....that would mean that ALL of mankind will be saved!
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It means no such thing, my friend. Salvation must be received thru Jesus, in order for God to give it. If you did not receive Jesus, you did not receive salvation, regardless of what laws you obey.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#33
#33
know1 said:
It means no such thing, my friend. Salvation must be received thru Jesus, in order for God to give it. If you did not receive Jesus, you did not receive salvation, regardless of what laws you obey.
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There was no mention of any laws whatsoever in my question. Here it is again;


Did Jesus give salvation to ALL of mankind when He died, or did the shedding of His blood make salvation AVAILABLE to all of mankind when He died?


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K

know1

Senior Member
#34
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#34
Eccl12and13 said:
You did not answer the questions;

Are there actions or thoughts that you did BEFORE you were saved that you no longer engage in now?

Do you do your best NOT to do those things that you once did before getting saved?

Has your lifestyle changed since hearing God's words? Do you go to the same places, hang with the same people, engage in the same activities?

And are you not in a constant battle trying NOT to do those things you stopped doing?
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If this is your state, sir, then you need Jesus in your heart, because if it is you trying to do these things rather than the Spirit of God, then you are missing the whole picture and salvation.
All of the above mentioned is worthless if you are not walking in or being lead by the Spirit of God.
Hence, the reason why 'you are trying' to do these things.
 
C

clarkthompson

Senior Member
#35
Jul 8, 2012
624
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#35
The doctrine of salvation not being taken away does not say we are in a salvation state now it says we all have the gift of salvation we can chose to accept it when God's leads us to it or we can not accept it in which case we would not accept salvation. We can only receive salvation thru Christ grace and love but we can reject Christ salvation thru our freewill and pride. Those who do not accept Christ are not accepted by the Father
 
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know1

Senior Member
#36
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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#36
Eccl12and13 said:

Because according to the scriptures....ALL have been redeemed;

Gal.3
[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

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The 'us' referred to here is to the Children of God, not the whole world. All have not been redeemed, only the Children of God.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#37
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#37
Eccl12and13 said:
There was no mention of any laws whatsoever in my question. Here it is again;


Did Jesus give salvation to ALL of mankind when He died, or did the shedding of His blood make salvation AVAILABLE to all of mankind when He died?
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The answer is, available. It is offered to all but only those who receive Jesus and the Spirit have eternal life.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#38
#38
know1 said:
The answer is, available. It is offered to all but only those who receive Jesus and the Spirit have eternal life.
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Thank you! That is all I am presenting in this post. The free gift that Jesus gave was NOT salvation. The free gift, the act of compassion (grace) that Jesus gave was the shedding of His BLOOD. And it was the shedding of His BLOOD that made salvation 'available' to all of mankind.

I pray others will read God's word for themselves to see this truth!


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Eccl12and13

Guest
#39
#39
know1 said:
If this is your state, sir, then you need Jesus in your heart, because if it is you trying to do these things rather than the Spirit of God, then you are missing the whole picture and salvation.
All of the above mentioned is worthless if you are not walking in or being lead by the Spirit of God.
Hence, the reason why 'you are trying' to do these things.
Click to expand...

Consider this.......

I'm in the store at checkout. My bill is 25.00. I give the cashier 30.00, and he gives me back 10.00. I pause for a moment...holding the 10.00 bill in full sight hoping they see their mistake, but they say have a nice day. I stop and tell them they gave me too much change. What spirit led me?

I'm at the mall shopping....an attractive woman catches my eye for a moment and I turn. Not paying any attention she turns too and walks my way. She asks who I'm shopping for and instead of saying my wife I tell her I'm there shopping for myself? What spirit led me?

I'm backing out of a parking spot in a dark street and hit a car leaving a substantial amount of damage. No alarm goes off....no one around. I wait a few moments hoping someone shows. Nothing! I go into my glove box...write all of my information on a sheet of paper and leave it on the windshield. What spirit led me?


Now...back to my original questions;


Are there actions or thoughts that you did BEFORE you were saved that you no longer engage in now?

Do you do your best NOT to do those things that you once did before getting saved?

Has your lifestyle changed since hearing God's words? Do you go to the same places, hang with the same people, engage in the same activities?

And are you not in a constant battle trying NOT to do those things you stopped doing?


What spirit do you think you are being led by when you try to do what you know is right?


Do you not know that Paul tells us of this exact same thing? Paul constantly, just as we all, was torn between keeping God's laws or breaking them. And guess what? Sometimes he did that which he knew was wrong. Let's read it....


Rom.7
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Paul tells us the things he does, he does not want to do them. For what he would do, what he wants to do, he does not. But the things that he hates, he does.

Now where do you think Paul is getting what things he should and should not be doing? From God's laws. Let's continue....let's confirm;

[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Paul tells us if he does something that he knows he should not do, it is because of God's laws that he knows what he is doing is wrong; he affirms that God's laws are good.

[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul tells us the good things he wants to do he does not. But the bad things he does not want to do, he does.

[20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

He tells us it's not him that does those things he does not want to do...it it sin. Consider this....what spirit is leading Paul to sin? An evil spirit, or an Holy spirit of God?

[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So what do we have here? Paul sometimes being led by evil spirit and sometimes being led by the spirit of God.


Whenever I decide to keep God's laws and commandments I AM being led by the Spirit of God!




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K

know1

Senior Member
#40
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#40
Eccl12and13 said:
Consider this.......

I'm in the store at checkout. My bill is 25.00. I give the cashier 30.00, and he gives me back 10.00. I pause for a moment...holding the 10.00 bill in full sight hoping they see their mistake, but they say have a nice day. I stop and tell them they gave me too much change. What spirit led me?

I'm at the mall shopping....an attractive woman catches my eye for a moment and I turn. Not paying any attention she turns too and walks my way. She asks who I'm shopping for and instead of saying my wife I tell her I'm there shopping for myself? What spirit led me?

I'm backing out of a parking spot in a dark street and hit a car leaving a substantial amount of damage. No alarm goes off....no one around. I wait a few moments hoping someone shows. Nothing! I go into my glove box...write all of my information on a sheet of paper and leave it on the windshield. What spirit led me?

So what do we have here? Paul sometimes being led by evil spirit and sometimes being led by the spirit of God.

Whenever I decide to keep God's laws and commandments I AM being led by the Spirit of God!
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Sir, I did those things before I was save.
The spirit that lead you in the first and third story was your conscience that is in your heart.
The second was your flesh that lead you, though the source could be an evil spirit. Lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes will cause you to go astray.
Our flesh has desires, as does our soul, heart, and spirit.
Paul was not lead by an evil spirit, but by his flesh.
At the end of chapter 7, Paul gives the answer to the problem. He did not stay in that situation. The reason why he was in that conflict was because he was trying to do good things. When you know the truth, the truth takes over and you don't try to stop doing bad things, you just do. Because it is the Spirit in you that causes you do good. If it is you trying, you will have that tug of war in you. When it is the Spirit doing those things, there is freedom, meaning there is no struggle to the things mentioned above.
But there are more and higher leadings of the Spirit of God than just doing good or kind deeds.
 
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