Salvation was NOT the free gift that Jesus gave to all of mankind!

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S

spirit1st

Guest
#61
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.



Gal_5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1Pe_1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:


1Jn_4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#62

And did the following happen on the day of Pentecost as was spoken in Joel;

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

Like I said....BOTH Acts and Joel speak of the exact same FUTURE event. The above event did NOT happen at the day of Pentecost. It speaks about the coming of the Lord.

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A

Abiding

Guest
#63
Actually not only can God go as the wind, but ALL of His angelic beings can as well. That is what spirit beings are capable of doing.

And once we are spirit beings we too will be able to do as God.


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Not True...God doesnt have location. And we will never be "as" God.
This sounds like something i read in Genesis 3
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#65
What nonsense.... "God does not have location."! This is what happens when people do not search and study the word of God.

God is a spirit being....just as angels. They take up space, they have substance. God is not some formless, ghost like spirit just floating around. He has a throne where He sits and rules. He has hands, feet, a torso and limbs....just like us, thus, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...", "...In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him..."

But this can only be understood by reading, studying and praying for wisdom and understanding.


But we digress...this thread is about the gift of the shedding of the Blood of Christ that made it possible for all of mankind to receive salvation



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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#66
And we will never be "as" God.

WOW! In ALL of your studies you have not figured out by now just why God did all of this in the first place?

God created man because He wanted more like Him.....JUST like Him. He cannot procreate so He CREATED!

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."


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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#67
Actually not only can God go as the wind, but ALL of His angelic beings can as well. That is what spirit beings are capable of doing.

And once we are spirit beings we too will be able to do as God.


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sounds familiar...

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#68
What nonsense.... "God does not have location."! This is what happens when people do not search and study the word of God.

God is a spirit being....just as angels. They take up space, they have substance. God is not some formless, ghost like spirit just floating around. He has a throne where He sits and rules. He has hands, feet, a torso and limbs....just like us, thus, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...", "...In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him..."

But this can only be understood by reading, studying and praying for wisdom and understanding.


But we digress...this thread is about the gift of the shedding of the Blood of Christ that made it possible for all of mankind to receive salvation



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Nope your the one without understanding. The bible is clear on this He does not have location.
For us relationally He will take a form. But He doesnt have a form yet He is more substantial as
Spirit then we are with a material form. But that wasnt my point either. I disagreed with you saying we will be "as" Him. We will be "as" the risen Lord...yet not just like Him we will never be divine. Try to not be so rude. Sure we have these truths given in the bible for example: He sits on the throne, and such. Try to keep in mind
it isnt literal. Its the best we can have now to explain things relationally being far inferior
dimensionality and in every other way.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#69
WOW! In ALL of your studies you have not figured out by now just why God did all of this in the first place?

God created man because He wanted more like Him.....JUST like Him. He cannot procreate so He CREATED!

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."


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No! again you dont understand. Notice the words "risen Lord" Who became a man and rose flesh and bone
and we are going to have a body "like" His . That is nothing like being"as" God(as u said)...by the way....do u ever listen and try to see others point?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#70
No...Thank You! You are correct! If we do choose to stop walking in the Spirit we WILL be subjected to the temptations of Satan and his demons...for he will not pass on ANY opportunity to devour and destroy!
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I apologize for not responding to this earlier but in all honesty, I was at a loss for words, or rather how to reply without appearing to gloat. You totally caught me off guard with this. I don't want to make more of it than it is but at the same time would like to commend you for admitting correction. That shows true humility and that you are interested in the truth.
I also had to swallow my pride and apologize to 'themachine' about a week and a half ago and admit that I was wrong for using/interpreting a scripture incorrectly that he pointed out. Didn't care to, but it was the right thing to do.
It is a rare thing for me to see someone not only allow correction but admit it to the person they were disputing a subject with. I just hope more people will see your shining example and do the same... My self included. Thanks again.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#71
Do you not know that even Jesus did not always WANT to do that which He knew was Good?
OMGosh...i don't even want to know what this means.
ugh
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#72
No! again you dont understand. Notice the words "risen Lord" Who became a man and rose flesh and bone
and we are going to have a body "like" His . That is nothing like being"as" God(as u said)...by the way....do u ever listen and try to see others point?
Bible 101:

1 Cor.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


Just as we have been born humans....to those that overcome, they will be born as God....a spirit beings!

That is why the scripture says the following;

John 3
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


And now let's confirm this with more scriptures;

Phil.3
[21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Now consider what Christ gave us at the mount of transfiguration...He was giving us an example of how we would be. Let's read;

Matt.17
[2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Now let's read how Daniel described those that were risen;

Dan.12
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Those that become spirit beings will shine as a star. Let's confirm;

Rev.22
[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
[5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

And what about Moses after being in the presence of the Lord for over 40 days? He started to take on His nature...for Moses too started to shine as the firmament, causing him to have to wear a vail.

Exod.34
[29] And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
[30] And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
[35] And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

Just from being in the presence of the Lord Moses started to become as Him.

This is the nature of spirit beings. This is what will become of those that overcome!

We will have the same nature as God, thus we will be part of the God family.



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T

Trax

Guest
#73
So....you do it because you are commanded!

Got it!

And do you love God with all your heart and your neighbor likewise because of the unsaved as well? Or do you keep these laws because God commands it regardless?



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Ecc, with that attitude, you'll never ever arrive at the truth. You make God's word say what you
want to hear. You even make "my" words say what you want to hear. Sorry, but it don't
work like that. I clearly pointed out the truth to you. You excersied your right to reject it.
I've done my job by posting you truth.
 
B

BishopSEH

Guest
#74
Greeting Eccl,

You have a pretty interesting view of Salvation. Interesting but also incorrect. Welcome to the human race, we all mess things up even something this simple.

The Gift of Salvation is just that a gift. You can't earn it so in must be given. It doesn't cost you anything to receive the gift so it is free. Unless you take accepting it as a task with is just silly to me.

Here is the thing, lets pretend its your birthday, so happy birthday. I bring you a gift. You don't have to accept it if you don't want to so its your choice. Same with salvation.

In order to open it and find out what the gift is you must accept it cause I am not telling. At this point you can chose to reject the gift as you can with salvation.

Now about people that will not be in heaven even though its a free gift. They chose not to accept the gift or rejected it once they found out what it is. That doesn't make the gift any less free to them.

So why would anyone not want to accept Jesus' gift? That's easy. Getting saved is easy. Being a Follower of Christ is very hard and very costly. Nothing in this world (which excludes hell) is harder than Following Christ.

Think about all you have to give up. Lust, hate, false or superficial judgement, sex outside of Marriage, certain words in your vocabulary, false statement, coveting what others have, divorce for any and every reason, adultery, back talking mom and dad, putting yourself first and doing anything without including God just to name a few.

Salvation is free to all who accept it. Using that same free gift, is hard, sometimes dangerous and even can be fatal. All can choose to accept it but none will be forced to accept it.

I can post Scripture for everything I said but I don't need to. You clearly know your Bible so you can find all of them yourself without my help. Jesus was born once, died once, raised once, ascended once all so you can chose to either be with Him or to be without Him. In fact when you think about it, not accepting Jesus' free gift costs more than all you will suffer for the Name if you choose to accept it.

This is a simple case of do you believe Triune Godhead and all the writers the Holy Spirit inspired or not?

In Christ,

Bishop SEH
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#75
Readers.......there are some that claim salvation is a free gift and that it was this free gift of salvation that Jesus gave to ALL of mankind. This doctrine is completely false. Let's examine this claim to find if it lines up with scripture. But in order to do that we must also take into consideration other doctrines that too are false.

First...let's consider this false doctrine; Your salvation cannot be taken away. Well......if Jesus came to give the free gift of salvation to ALL of mankind, AND salvation cannot be taken away, that would mean that ALL of mankind will be saved!

But does this line up with scripture? Will ALL of mankind be spared dying the second death, which is the lake of fire? Absolutely not! Everyone is NOT going to be saved. Now let's read what the true free gift was that Jesus gave.

Rom.5
[16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Paul tells us that it was the free gift of Jesus Christ that came upon ALL men unto justification.

So YES! Christ did give ALL of mankind a free gift.....but was that free gift salvation? No! Let's back up a bit to find just what it was that justified ALL men, in other words, cleared men of their sins.

Rom.5
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The free gift that Jesus gave that cleared ALL of mankind of their sins was His BLOOD! That was the free gift that He gave.....NOT salvation. Let's confirm;

Rom.3
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

So....what was the grace that cleared ALL of mankind of their sins? The BLOOD of Jesus. Let's confirm again;

Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Again....what was the grace that allowed the remission of sin to all of mankind? The BLOOD of Jesus! Let's confirm this once more;

Heb.10
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Paul tells us that it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away the sins of man. He even tells us that God had no pleasure in killing innocent animals. But because God had a law that REQUIRED blood to remove sins He allowed it.

Notice what Paul writes, "Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;"

Now what law set the guidelines for animal sacrifice? Was it do not, kill, steal, covet or lie? No! It was the laws that were given to the Levitical Priest and their works/deeds of killing animals for the remission of sins.

But once Jesus came and shed His blood, that one sacrifice would be good for ALL of mankind. The shedding of Jesus blood ended the Levitical Priesthood. The shedding of Christ blood took away the law of animal sacrifice and established the law of faith.


Readers....it is clear that the free gift that Jesus gave to ALL of mankind was NOT salvation....it was the shedding of His BLOOD that removed the sins of the world.


Like I asked in the beginning of this post.....IF it was salvation that was given as the free gift......and IF salvation cannot be taken away, that would mean that ALL will be saved!

But as we know......ALL of mankind will NOT be saved! Some will die the second death, which is the lake of fire!


The shedding of Jesus BLOOD made it possible for ALL to be saved....if they receive God's words, have faith in God's words and OBEY God's words;


"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;".
Faith is what lays hold on the promises of God and as the text you quoted Romans 3:25 we are to have faith in His blood for the remission of our sin. This faith is not something we feel but believe.
 
K

Kefa52

Guest
#76
1 Timothy

Chapter 2

Instructions on Prayer

1 First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone,
2 for kings and all those who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3 This is good, and it pleases God our Savior
4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity,Christ Jesus, Himself human
6 who gave Himself—a ransom for all testimony at the proper time.
7 For this I was appointed a herald, an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), and a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

John 12-18

12 If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven?
13 No one has ascendedy into heaven except the One who descended from heaven
14 Just as Mosesd lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life.
16 “For God loved the world in this way He gave His One and Only Son so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemnm the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned because he has not believed in the name of God.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#77
Greeting Eccl,

You have a pretty interesting view of Salvation. Interesting but also incorrect.

Let's not make this hard....when in fact it is very simple. I believe most just read the title of the post without ever reading the post itself. So let's go back and READ....

If the free gift of salvation was what Jesus gave to ALL of mankind when He died, AND salvation cannot be taken away, that would mean that ALL of mankind will be saved!

But does this line up with scripture? Will ALL of mankind be spared dying the second death, which is the lake of fire? Absolutely not! Everyone is NOT going to be saved. Now let's read what the true free gift was that Jesus gave. Let's read what Jesus made "ACCESSIBLE" to all of mankind;


Rom.5
[16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Paul tells us that it was the free gift of Jesus Christ that came upon ALL men unto justification.

So YES! Christ did give ALL of mankind a free gift.....but was that free gift salvation? No! Let's back up a bit to find just what it was that justified ALL men, in other words, cleared ALL men of their sins.

Rom.5
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The free gift that Jesus gave that cleared ALL of mankind of their sins was His BLOOD! That was the free gift that He gave.....NOT salvation. Let's confirm;

Rom.3
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

So....what was the grace that cleared ALL of mankind of their sins? The BLOOD of Jesus.

Once Jesus came and shed His blood, that one sacrifice would be good for ALL of mankind. The shedding of Jesus blood ended the Levitical Priesthood. The shedding of Christ blood took away the law of animal sacrifice and established the law of faith.

Readers....it is clear that the free gift that Jesus gave to ALL of mankind was NOT salvation....it was the shedding of His BLOOD that removed the sins of the world. The remove of the curse of the law is what Jesus gave to ALL of mankind, making salvation ACCESSIBLE to ALL of mankind.

The shedding of Jesus BLOOD made it POSSIBLE for ALL to be saved....if they receive God's words, have faith in God's words and OBEY God's words;

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;".



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K

Kefa52

Guest
#78
I can't believe we are discussing John 3:16 like this. Isn't there a kindergarten song about this?
This dead horse is starting to smell.
 
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