Salvation was NOT the free gift that Jesus gave to all of mankind!

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Eccl12and13

Guest
#41
Sir, I did those things before I was save.


So before you knew of God and His word...what do you believe it was that lead you in a wrong direction?

And before you knew God and His word...what do you believe it was that lead you in a right direction?

In other words....when the choice came before you to either break God's laws or keep God's laws, even before you may have known that it was a sin, do you believe it was an evil spirit or an Holy spirit that guided you....or something else?

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Eccl12and13

Guest
#42


When you know the truth, the truth takes over and you don't try to stop doing bad things, you just do.

So tell me.....Are you COMPLETELY free from ALL temptations from Satan? You NEVER have to contend with the choice of keeping or not keeping God's laws?

Doing that which is good is not automatic. The flesh does not want to keep the laws of God.

Do you not know that even Jesus did not always WANT to do that which He knew was Good?

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#43
So before you knew of God and His word...what do you believe it was that lead you in a wrong direction?

And before you knew God and His word...what do you believe it was that lead you in a right direction?

In other words....when the choice came before you to either break God's laws or keep God's laws, even before you may have known that it was a sin, do you believe it was an evil spirit or an Holy spirit that guided you....or something else?

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I started hear God talk to me. That was the big difference. Change though was very slow.
 
S

spirit1st

Guest
#44
The Bible says it FREE and it is FREE ! We just accept What He Already did and Him as LORD !Which He is already Is ! We do not but reveal our Faith !It By Faith ! Believing what He did and Who He is !

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#45
I started hear God talk to me. That was the big difference. Change though was very slow.
So even before you knew God, His spirit was guiding you. That happens to each and every person all over the world. Whether they know God or not He has already told us that His spirit will be upon ALL flesh;

Acts 2
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Now consider this.....I have no idea how many angelic beings God created, but I do know that only a third of them choose to rebel and follow Satan. That leaves 2/3rd's that are Holy. And I'm sure that's more than enough to cover every man, woman and child that will ever exist.

God's spirit guides us to do what it right...but then you have Satan's spirits that is warring with God's spirits trying to push us in the wrong direction.

It is up to us to decide which spirit we are going to be led by; God's Holy Spirits or Satan's evil spirits!



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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#46
So tell me.....Are you COMPLETELY free from ALL temptations from Satan? You NEVER have to contend with the choice of keeping or not keeping God's laws?

Doing that which is good is not automatic. The flesh does not want to keep the laws of God.

Do you not know that even Jesus did not always WANT to do that which He knew was Good?

.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

There was a time in my life when I had problems with certain temptations, after I was born again. Contemplated committing suicide because of it. Not until I knew who I was in Christ Jesus, that I was freed from those things that held me in bondage. That was when I started walking in the Spirit.
This is what set Paul free and me too. At the same time, we can, if we so choose to, walk in the flesh. When we do, we become like everyone else.Weak. But, when we walk in the Spirit, the weak can say, 'I am strong'. We are commanded to walk by faith in the power of the Spirit for our benefit. When we stop, and we can if we choose to, we will be subject to the same temptations as everyone else is. Thanks.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#47

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

There was a time in my life when I had problems with certain temptations, after I was born again. Contemplated committing suicide because of it. Not until I knew who I was in Christ Jesus, that I was freed from those things that held me in bondage. That was when I started walking in the Spirit.
This is what set Paul free and me too. At the same time, we can, if we so choose to, walk in the flesh. When we do, we become like everyone else.Weak. But, when we walk in the Spirit, the weak can say, 'I am strong'. We are commanded to walk by faith in the power of the Spirit for our benefit. When we stop, and we can if we choose to, we will be subject to the same temptations as everyone else is. Thanks.
No...Thank You! You are correct! If we do choose to stop walking in the Spirit we WILL be subjected to the temptations of Satan and his demons...for he will not pass on ANY opportunity to devour and destroy!

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G

GreenNnice

Guest
#48
”...faith, and, that (faith) not of yourselves, it (faith) is a FREE GIFT of God...”
()()()()()()()()()()()()()()


” . For Adam's sin led to condemnation, but God's free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins...”

How does salvation ”lead” one to be right with God? It doesn't.

And, another choice for the free gift is 'grace,' again, how does grace lead us to right standing with God? It doesn't.

Both 'salvation' and 'grace' are therefore NOT The free gift but what is then, green?

Already said it. Faith ! The by grace[] and []saved[] BOTH are simply speaking of one explained concept, but then comes the capitalized words I lead you to, that change everything...

”By grace are ye saved, THROUGH FAITH--and, THAT not of yourself, it is a free gift of God....”

Faith.

Now, explaining Eph. 2:8 there leads in to what is the free gift that comes as a result of our putting to use God's FREE 'measure of faith' given all flesh. That NONE should perish, this 2 Peter 3:9 defines God's will of mankind.

The free gift of God is His Son, and, our FAITH in believing in Him LEADS us to righteousness, as we live a life of 'rest' and that will come through obedkence to Him in us.....

_____________
........................................<;:;:;:;> leading :)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#49

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

There was a time in my life when I had problems with certain temptations, after I was born again. Contemplated committing suicide because of it. Not until I knew who I was in Christ Jesus, that I was freed from those things that held me in bondage. That was when I started walking in the Spirit.
This is what set Paul free and me too. At the same time, we can, if we so choose to, walk in the flesh. When we do, we become like everyone else.Weak. But, when we walk in the Spirit, the weak can say, 'I am strong'. We are commanded to walk by faith in the power of the Spirit for our benefit. When we stop, and we can if we choose to, we will be subject to the same temptations as everyone else is. Thanks.
i wonder why people always prefer to cut away the full text?:)

Romans 8
Life in the Spirit
1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a 2For the law of the Spirit of life has set youb free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,c he condemned sin in the flesh, 4in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God&#8217;s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Heirs with Christ
12So then, brothers,d we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, &#8220;Abba! Father!&#8221; 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs&#8212;heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

Future Glory
18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, becausef the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,g for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

~

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

we either have the Spirit and belong to Him, or we don't.
do we?

John 3:7
Do not marvel that I said to you, &#8216;You must be born again.&#8217;

John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

John 3:8
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#50
So even before you knew God, His spirit was guiding you. That happens to each and every person all over the world. Whether they know God or not He has already told us that His spirit will be upon ALL flesh;

Acts 2
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
umm....Acts 2 happened at Pentecost.
it's not about today.

people receive the Holy Spirit today when they are drawn to the Son by the Father; hear the Law & The Gospel (the same Wonderful works of God the disciples spoke to the men from every nation ingathered at Jerusalem)....and the people receive the gift of faith, and are saved by Grace.....or do not and are not.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#51
i wonder why people always prefer to cut away the full text?:)
You mean like I did with the rest of your post?
That's simple.
I'm not as fast as you are. Therefore, I have to keep mine short.:D
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#52
i wonder why people always prefer to cut away the full text?:)
Okay, it's also because I believe people will pass over a post if it is too long. I try to keep it short for that reason as well.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#53
umm....Acts 2 happened at Pentecost.
it's not about today.
Acts 2
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2 happened at Pentecost, but spoke of a time in the future. As a matter of fact, the verse just above speaks about the exact same time, but spoken by the prophet Joel. Let's read it;

Joel.2
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 2 and Acts 2 BOTH speak of a future event...NOT the events that happened at the day of Pentecost.


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Eccl12and13

Guest
#54
John 3:8
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Please tell me...do you know ANYONE that fits the description and has the capabilities to perform what is described in the above verse you presented?

Because what Jesus just described are the capabilities of one that has been TRULY "Born Again"!

So again.....do you know ANYONE that can do what Jesus described?


.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#55
I'm saved and obeying the law or doing any act or good work, will not alter my salvation nor make me
a better person. I can not improve on me so I don't attempt to. What I do, in my acts, obediance,
and good works, are done for the Lord. I'm working for Him, not myself. My salvation is a non issue
with me and Jesus, because it is settled. The unsaved world sees me, and it is for their sake, that I
obey the Law, so that I wont put a stumbling block before them. Jesus died for them as He did me.
I can not be counter productive to His work.

But, within the church, it is still held that you "got" to do this and that, in order to maintain one's
salvation. That attitude is simply working for oneself and seeking to save one's own life. That
christian has failed, regardless of how determined and how good they obey the law and do good
works. It will not be honored by Jesus, because it was done with selffish
motivation.
the only thing one has to not do is condemn others ;)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#56
Acts 2
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2 happened at Pentecost, but spoke of a time in the future. As a matter of fact, the verse just above speaks about the exact same time, but spoken by the prophet Joel. Let's read it;

Joel.2
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 2 and Acts 2 BOTH speak of a future event...NOT the events that happened at the day of Pentecost.
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this is that
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#57
Please tell me...do you know ANYONE that fits the description and has the capabilities to perform what is described in the above verse you presented?

Because what Jesus just described are the capabilities of one that has been TRULY "Born Again"!

So again.....do you know ANYONE that can do what Jesus described?
the verse is about HOW the Lord brings about the new birth.
what it is like.
not about what the believer does.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
Please tell me...do you know ANYONE that fits the description and has the capabilities to perform what is described in the above verse you presented?

Because what Jesus just described are the capabilities of one that has been TRULY "Born Again"!

So again.....do you know ANYONE that can do what Jesus described?


.
No. No one can do that. Only God can be as the wind and go as he pleases. and as the wind, no one can tell where it originates.

I can tell where you originated. I can even see which way you go. Can you go to hades? Christ did. Can you go personally to the throne room of God? Jesus did. Can you tell where God originated? no..

you have a faulty view of Gods word. and your heeding on blasphemy by trying to give men credit for the work of God.
 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#59
No. No one can do that. Only God can be as the wind and go as he pleases. and as the wind, no one can tell where it originates.




Actually not only can God go as the wind, but ALL of His angelic beings can as well. That is what spirit beings are capable of doing.

And once we are spirit beings we too will be able to do as God.


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S

spirit1st

Guest
#60
Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal_3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


We are NOT under the laws given to moses ! But the Law of christ 1 LOVE and Faith ! Those are the Only laws HE writes in our Heart [Spirit]
Heb_10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

We are all grafted in as jews
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

We are grafted into the new Priest tribe Judah !

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rev_1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb_7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Rev_5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.