salvation

[justamazed]

I didnt say wisdom either, sorry you misunderstood. You said God is Spirit. I ask How a Spirit has a Spirit as in Gensis 1: wisdon is not mention in Genesis.

The debate, is you said God was alone. Originally Posted by justamazed

I'll try to explain as best I can to you. In the beginning it was only the Father.

I gave you Genisis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[SUP][a][/SUP] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

your reply "Again in nature two males cannot make a child. If we have a Father then surely we have a mother." The "us" are your parents. Again if you have a Father you also have a mother. Her name is wisdom and she acts as a woman should.

you want to make wisdom Jesus if I am following you correctly in this post. The bible speaks of Jesus being Both the power AND the wisdom of God. Power being the "male" and wisdom being the "female".

So God was not alone if Jesus was their also.

Which is what I have been saying.

John1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was with God in the beginning. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[SUP][a][/SUP] it.

Proverbs 8
[SUP]27[/SUP]I (wisdom) was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
[SUP]29 [/SUP]when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then I was constantly[SUP][e][/SUP] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
[SUP]31 [/SUP]rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

No, not making wisdom to be Jesus. The "us" in Genesis is wisdom. The words are written for our example and understanding. Immediately after the verse, it no longer uses "us" or "they" but "He". Wisdom as a personification of a woman remains silent.

Jesus again is both the power (male qualities of the Spirit) and the wisdom (female qualities of that same Spirit) of God. He looks like them. Again One Spirit both male and female.

 

[stek]

Romans 5:6-10
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Colossians 1:19-20

[SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

taken out on context.

Hebrews 2:16
New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants

Hebrews 2:16
Amplified Bible (AMP)


[SUP]16 [/SUP]For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [[SUP][a][/SUP]the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [[SUP][b][/SUP]the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].


Hebrews 2:16
New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

 

[justamazed]

taken out on context.

Hebrews 2:16

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendantsHebrews 2:16

Amplified Bible (AMP)


[SUP]16 [/SUP]For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [[SUP][a][/SUP]the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [[SUP][b][/SUP]the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].


Hebrews 2:16

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

Hebrews 1:16-18

[SUP]16[/SUP]For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Do you know what the nature of an angel is?

 

[stek]

Hebrews 1:16-18

[SUP]16[/SUP]For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Do you know what the nature of an angel is?

Yes I do, Do you?

Apply the scriptures the way you want, deny Hebrews deny other books deny what you want. I will post truths.

 

[stek]

Do some research you can start hear. I challenge you to prove me wrong Prove to me Hebrews is wrong start here CAN ANGELS ATTAIN SALVATION.

 

[justamazed]

Yes I do, Do you?

Apply the scriptures the way you want, deny Hebrews deny other books deny what you want. I will post truths.

And what is the truth? Can it be deterred?

 

[stek]

And what is the truth? Can it be deterred?

Yes it can and you do it very well.

 

[justamazed]

Yes it can and you do it very well.

So we can ruin God's plan of salvation?

 

[stek]

So we can ruin God's plan of salvation?

Am I ruining God's Plan of salvation? I think not!! I have showed you clearly it says Christ did not come to help the angels but to help the seed of Abraham. Am I to believe your are saying their is more than one plan of salvation?

 

[justamazed]

Am I ruining God's Plan of salvation? I think not!! I have showed you clearly it says Christ did not come to help the angels but to help the seed of Abraham. Am I to believe your are saying their is more than one plan of salvation?

It's hard to communicate when you would question my salvation simply because of your idea of what angels are.

 

[justamazed]

Do some research you can start hear. I challenge you to prove me wrong Prove to me Hebrews is wrong start here CAN ANGELS ATTAIN SALVATION.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. Simply to grow in love in the knowledge of our Lord. But without love, how can you grow?

 

[FORHISGLORY]

This question was posed by the Phillipian jailer.The Apostles answered: " Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved !". It can be view as more complicated when you consider the doctrine of salvation. "Ortis Salutis " is latin for order of salvation. First, a person has to be chosen by God the Father before the foundation of the earth(Ephesians 1). So, salvation begins with God's election. Secondly, a person has to be exposed to the proclamation of the gospel(Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.Romans 10:17). Thirdly, God has to do a work of regeneration in a person's heart)Titus 3:5;John 3:3;Ephesians 2:1-10. When it comes down to it,we are saved by God's grace(Eph.2:8-9).

 

[stek]

It's hard to communicate when you would question my salvation simply because of your idea of what angels are.

Its hard to accept your ideas when they dont have sound biblical principals and contradict other verses in the bible. I have never questioned your salvation or judged you to hell, only debated with you about some of your ideas. To which, I may have taken this wrong, you accused me of ruining God's plan of salvation.


angels are not glorified human beings. Matthew 22:30 explains that they do not marry or reproduce like humans, and Hebrews 12:22-23 says that when we get to the heavenly Jerusalem, we will be met by “myriads of angels” and “the spirits of righteous men made perfect”—two separate groups. Angels are a company or association, not a race descended from a common ancestor (Luke 20:34-36). We are called “sons of men,” but angels are never called “sons of angels.”

The word “angel” actually comes from the Greek word aggelos, which means “messenger.” The matching Hebrew word mal'ak has the same meaning.

John 3:16-18 is the salvation plan, I have not posted anything that contradicts that.

You posted a scripture that would contradict mine (Hebrews) that you believe would extend salvation to angels. If both are in the correct contexts that means one is flawed, which ruins the intergrity of the scriptures. The key concept behind the Scriptures is that they are all true. In other words the scriptures must work together or they are false.

your definition of angels has nothing to do with God's salvation only with if angels can be saved. According to Hebrews Christ died for the sins of mankind. The sins of fallen angels are not covered. What part of this do you think I am questioning your salvation.

 

[jody50]

God's plan of salvation is in the New Testament. Whatever you believe about angels has nothing to do with it. You have to take all steps to salvation. Believe, repent, confess Jesus, and be baptized. I Pet. 3:21, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:15 & 16 Then you have to live a faithful life and worship God as He laid it out in the New Testament.

 

[justamazed]

Its hard to accept your ideas when they dont have sound biblical principals and contradict other verses in the bible. I have never questioned your salvation or judged you to hell, only debated with you about some of your ideas. To which, I may have taken this wrong, you accused me of ruining God's plan of salvation.


angels are not glorified human beings. Matthew 22:30 explains that they do not marry or reproduce like humans, and Hebrews 12:22-23 says that when we get to the heavenly Jerusalem, we will be met by “myriads of angels” and “the spirits of righteous men made perfect”—two separate groups. Angels are a company or association, not a race descended from a common ancestor (Luke 20:34-36). We are called “sons of men,” but angels are never called “sons of angels.”

The word “angel” actually comes from the Greek word aggelos, which means “messenger.” The matching Hebrew word mal'ak has the same meaning.

John 3:16-18 is the salvation plan, I have not posted anything that contradicts that.

You posted a scripture that would contradict mine (Hebrews) that you believe would extend salvation to angels. If both are in the correct contexts that means one is flawed, which ruins the intergrity of the scriptures. The key concept behind the Scriptures is that they are all true. In other words the scriptures must work together or they are false.

your definition of angels has nothing to do with God's salvation only with if angels can be saved. According to Hebrews Christ died for the sins of mankind. The sins of fallen angels are not covered. What part of this do you think I am questioning your salvation.

Please do not misunderstand me. I didn't mean that you're ruining God's plan but that can "WE" meaning making ruin His plan?

And again our understanding of angels are different. If the word means messenger, then who are God's messengers?

Sin came into the world by a man.

And remember God sent evil angels to do His work. Why believe that salvation is not for them when they are doing what God has purposed them to do?

 

[Godscalledman]

Romes 10: 9-10, said's if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart, you will be saved!"

 

[Godscalledman]

John 3:16, let's me know that..for GOD SO LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten Son.""

 

[stek]

Please do not misunderstand me. I didn't mean that you're ruining God's plan but that can "WE" meaning making ruin His plan?

My bad thought you where saying I was ruining God's plan

And again our understanding of angels are different. If the word means messenger, then who are God's messengers?

Angels are God's messengers, what is youe understanding of scriptures about angels?

Sin came into the world by a man.

Man disobeyed God and that was since, man is given freewill to choose. temptation came by Lucifer/Satan. not sure i would translate that sin came into the world by man.

And remember God sent evil angels to do His work. Why believe that salvation is not for them when they are doing what God has purposed them to do?

Look at my post do angels have a free will?

Bother I do not hate you I have never questioned your salvation, only debated the scriptures you post when I found them to be false. The First you said was God was alone.[h=3]John 1:1-2[/h]Amplified Bible (AMP)


1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([SUP][a][/SUP]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [SUP][b][/SUP]Himself.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He was present originally with God.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]

1. John 1:1 In John’s vision (Rev. 19), he sees Christ returning as Warrior-Messiah-King, and “the title by which He is called is The Word of God... and Lord of lords” (Rev. 19:13, 16).
2. John 1:1 Charles B. Williams, The New Testament: A Translation in the Language of the People: “God” appears first in the Greek word order in this phrase, denoting emphasis—so “God Himself.”

As I also said either the scriptures are either entirely true or they are false. You can not have only some scriptures be correct and other not correct. All scriptures must relate to each other as to tell the truth Bible so to equally no matter what book they are taken from. Your concept of "us" in the Genesis 1 has no Biblical support (other scriptures to enforce this) While there are many scriptures that imply God was not alone including Proverbs 8

When He prepared the heavens, I [Wisdom] was there; when He drew a circle upon the face of the deep and stretched out the firmament over it, [SUP]28 [/SUP]When He made firm the skies above, when He established the fountains of the deep,
[SUP]29 [/SUP]When He gave to the sea its limit and His decree that the waters should not transgress [across the boundaries set by] His command, when He appointed the foundations of the earth—
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then I [Wisdom] was [SUP][a][/SUP]beside Him as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always,

1. Proverbs 8:30 See Wisdom here present and involved at creation as an attribute (quality, characteristic, trait, feature, point, power, aspect, element, part) of God.

 

[jody50]

Romes 10: 9-10, said's if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart, you will be saved!"

Mark 16: 15 & 16 says Go into the world and preaching who ever believe's AND is BAPTIZED will be SAVED.
Act 2:38 says. "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus FOR the REMISSION OF YOUR SINS.
I Peter 3:21 says "For now BAPTISM does now SAVE US.

 

[jody50]

Romes 10: 9-10, said's if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart, you will be saved!"

Confession is definitely part of it. But you can't just take that one. We have to obey ALL the commands. God said "If you love me you will keep my commandments.