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J
We are definitely saved by Grace and Works. It of course takes the grace of God because we could never deserve it. But we have to do our part. Believe is doing something. The N. T. says we have to believe, repent, confess Jesus, and be baptized.
Those are all works we do. We also have to Love God and our neighbors. Those are works. We have to do whatever we can and God knows our hearts and if we are trying to keep His commandments. About the disabled, of course, God knows they can't do certain things so he wouldn't hold them accountable for anything they can't do.
Those are all works we do. We also have to Love God and our neighbors. Those are works. We have to do whatever we can and God knows our hearts and if we are trying to keep His commandments. About the disabled, of course, God knows they can't do certain things so he wouldn't hold them accountable for anything they can't do.
P
Hi, Jody, I'm ellie. 
While it is so that we are commanded to do things, this obedience will be the fruit of salvation in the believer's life, not the cause of it.
We are justified by faith in the Blood of Christ. Not one thing we can do to add to it, or take away from it.
That's just what it talks about in Eph. 2:8-9.
Nice to 'meet' you. Hope to see you around.
-el
While it is so that we are commanded to do things, this obedience will be the fruit of salvation in the believer's life, not the cause of it.
We are justified by faith in the Blood of Christ. Not one thing we can do to add to it, or take away from it.
That's just what it talks about in Eph. 2:8-9.
Nice to 'meet' you. Hope to see you around.
-el
We are justified freely by His Grace. Free grace means that God bestows upon us His divine favor without expecting anything in return. If grace makes demands then it becomes a law or debt.
Salvation is by grace through faith. It is not by works, nor by the deeds of the law, nor by ordinances, sacrifices, institutions or conduct. One is not even saved by being by being good.
Salvation is by grace through faith. It is not by works, nor by the deeds of the law, nor by ordinances, sacrifices, institutions or conduct. One is not even saved by being by being good.
J
Hi, Jody, I'm ellie.
While it is so that we are commanded to do things, this obedience will be the fruit of salvation in the believer's life, not the cause of it.
We are justified by faith in the Blood of Christ. Not one thing we can do to add to it, or take away from it.
That's just what it talks about in Eph. 2:8-9.
Nice to 'meet' you. Hope to see you around.
-el
While it is so that we are commanded to do things, this obedience will be the fruit of salvation in the believer's life, not the cause of it.
We are justified by faith in the Blood of Christ. Not one thing we can do to add to it, or take away from it.
That's just what it talks about in Eph. 2:8-9.
Nice to 'meet' you. Hope to see you around.
-el
Nice to meet you also.
James 2:19-26
19*Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20*But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21*Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22*Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23*And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24*Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25*Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26*For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Does not this hold true for devils or evil angels as well? Again I ask what is missing between us?
19*Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20*But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21*Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22*Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23*And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24*Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25*Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26*For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Does not this hold true for devils or evil angels as well? Again I ask what is missing between us?
P
Acts 2:38 is immediately preceded by Peter's sermon, and a record (v. 37) of the Jews being 'pierced to the heart' and asking 'brethren, what shall we do?'
This shows faith had been given by God for them to see Jesus as Messiah, and subsequent to that they are told to repent and to be baptised. Believe is not included in what they are told to do, as that had already happened.
I don't mean to harp on you, so please forgive me if it comes off that way?
It's just that this idea...this great salvation secured for us by the Work of Christ alone
is really kinda important. ♥
This shows faith had been given by God for them to see Jesus as Messiah, and subsequent to that they are told to repent and to be baptised. Believe is not included in what they are told to do, as that had already happened.
I don't mean to harp on you, so please forgive me if it comes off that way?
It's just that this idea...this great salvation secured for us by the Work of Christ alone
is really kinda important. ♥
Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar over 30 years after God had accepted him diue to his faith. Was he not justified in the interim period in God's sight?
True faith produces works, but works do not save, we are saved by grace through faith
The works God requires are done out of love and gratitude for a free salvation, they are the works God requires. Not works done with the idea that they will better enable a person to attain Heaven
True faith produces works, but works do not save, we are saved by grace through faith
The works God requires are done out of love and gratitude for a free salvation, they are the works God requires. Not works done with the idea that they will better enable a person to attain Heaven
If this was the case then all christians will be saved but many more doomed.
Romans 6:3-5
3*Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4*Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5*For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Galatians 5: 19-26
19*Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20*Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21*Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22*But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23*Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24*And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25*If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26*Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Romans 6:3-5
3*Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4*Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5*For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Galatians 5: 19-26
19*Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20*Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21*Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22*But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23*Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24*And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25*If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26*Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
J
Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins. That's God's gift to us. His Grace. After the ressurection Jesus spoke these words. Mark 16:15&16. "Go ye into the world and preach the gospel to every creature he that Believes AND is BAPTIZED shall be saved but he that believes not will be condemned." Jesus told us we have to do something. Believe and be Baptized. Jesus said it not me. We can't earn salvation but we must do what Christ says in order to receive the grace.
J
In Acts the people HEARD Peter's sermon and as a result they were pricked in the heart and cried out "What shall we do".
This shows they had faith that Jesus was the Christ so they believed it already. Rom. 10:17 "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." So you have believers crying out what they should do. Then the Holy Spirit through Peter told them to repent and be baptized FOR the remission of their sins. Paul said in Rom. 1:16 that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes." Which is what happened on the day of Pentecost. The gospel is to be obeyed.
I don't think you are harping on me and I don't mean to harp on you. Just explaining what I believe the Bible teaches!
This shows they had faith that Jesus was the Christ so they believed it already. Rom. 10:17 "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." So you have believers crying out what they should do. Then the Holy Spirit through Peter told them to repent and be baptized FOR the remission of their sins. Paul said in Rom. 1:16 that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes." Which is what happened on the day of Pentecost. The gospel is to be obeyed.
I don't think you are harping on me and I don't mean to harp on you. Just explaining what I believe the Bible teaches!
S
I didnt say wisdom either, sorry you misunderstood. You said God is Spirit. I ask How a Spirit has a Spirit as in Gensis 1: wisdon is not mention in Genesis.
The debate, is you said God was alone. Originally Posted by justamazed
I gave you Genisis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[SUP][a][/SUP] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
your reply "Again in nature two males cannot make a child. If we have a Father then surely we have a mother." The "us" are your parents. Again if you have a Father you also have a mother. Her name is wisdom and she acts as a woman should.
you want to make wisdom Jesus if I am following you correctly in this post. The bible speaks of Jesus being Both the power AND the wisdom of God. Power being the "male" and wisdom being the "female".
So God was not alone if Jesus was their also.
Which is what I have been saying.
John1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was with God in the beginning. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[SUP][a][/SUP] it.
Proverbs 8
[SUP]27[/SUP]I (wisdom) was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
[SUP]29 [/SUP]when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Then I was constantly[SUP][e][/SUP] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
[SUP]31 [/SUP]rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
S
God does not offer salvation to the heavenly host that disobey him. Man was originally created innoncent and naive for His enjoyment. When man ate of the tree of wisdom and knowledge man sinned. Through god's Grace and Christ bllod can we be saved. That blood extend to the world, not the heavenly host.
John 3:16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (niv)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([SUP][d][/SUP]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.] (ampliefied bible)
John 3:16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (niv)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([SUP][d][/SUP]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.] (ampliefied bible)
Romans 5:6-10
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Colossians 1:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.