salvation

[justamazed]

mind if I ask who you think Christ was?

Hebrews 1:1-3


1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[SUP]2[/SUP]Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[mark54]

What do you have to do to be saved?

In the churches I have been to, you had to believe the son of God died for your sins at Calvary, you repented of your sin and asked Christ into your life as Lord and Saviour. I remmber doing this at ten, and was told by a counsellor who chatted to me my name had been written in the lamb's book of life

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 1:1-3


1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[SUP]2[/SUP]Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

this does not answer the question.. one could intepret this many ways.

 

[justamazed]

this does not answer the question.. one could intepret this many ways.

I guess the bible stating that He is God's son is not clear enough. He is the Word made flesh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess the bible stating that He is God's son is not clear enough. He is the Word made flesh.

ok. so would not Gods son be God?? How can a son of God not be what he is??

and yes, he is the word made flesh. and the word WAS GOD, and he was WITH GOD..

so you either have to believe the father and son are two induviduals , or you have to believe the father son and spirit are induviduals..

but by what you just claimed.. You have to believe at least in a biune God, if not a triune God.

 

[justamazed]

ok. so would not Gods son be God?? How can a son of God not be what he is??

and yes, he is the word made flesh. and the word WAS GOD, and he was WITH GOD..

so you either have to believe the father and son are two induviduals , or you have to believe the father son and spirit are induviduals..

but by what you just claimed.. You have to believe at least in a biune God, if not a triune God.

Are you not a son of God? In the beginning was the Word. Not two separate beings but the Father alone who spoke and it was so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you not a son of God? In the beginning was the Word. Not two separate beings but the Father alone who spoke and it was so.

Me? I am omnopotent? I am omnipresent? I created the heavens and earth, and hold them together? I have all that power? I was the God of Israel??

I am an adopted son of God. Jesus is a literal son of God. HUGE difference.

and you detroyed that verse.

The word was not only God, but it was WITH GOD.

Jesus is called the logos. because the word (scripture) is ALL ABOUT HIM.

do you understand what the term logos means??

 

[justamazed]

Me? I am omnopotent? I am omnipresent? I created the heavens and earth, and hold them together? I have all that power? I was the God of Israel??

I am an adopted son of God. Jesus is a literal son of God. HUGE difference.

and you detroyed that verse.

The word was not only God, but it was WITH GOD.

Jesus is called the logos. because the word (scripture) is ALL ABOUT HIM.

do you understand what the term logos means??

Yes I do. Do you know what "alone" means? The Lord said He was alone, not with the "Word".

Consciousness and state of being. Is that made or is it from and of source of consciousness and state of being?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I do. Do you know what "alone" means? The Lord said He was alone, not with the "Word".

Consciousness and state of being. Is that made or is it from and of source of consciousness and state of being?

alone? it does not say that in John 1: 1. It says he was WITH GOD.. that means he was a separate entity..

who is this speaking?

Isaiah 48: 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together. 14 '"All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper. 16 Come ye near unto me, Hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I, and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

If God and his spirit sent him. then who is it??

 

[justamazed]

alone? it does not say that in John 1: 1. It says he was WITH GOD.. that means he was a separate entity..

who is this speaking?

Isaiah 48: 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together. 14 '"All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; Yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper. 16 Come ye near unto me, Hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I, and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

If God and his spirit sent him. then who is it??

I thought we discussed this before? The reply won't change with me. Would you like me to repost my response to this again?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I thought we discussed this before? The reply won't change with me. Would you like me to repost my response to this again?

if you do not think it was pre-incarnate christ. then there is no discussion. It can be no one else.

 

[justamazed]

if you do not think it was pre-incarnate christ. then there is no discussion. It can be no one else.

I'll try this again........

John 6:63

63*It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

We know that the WORDS that Christ spoke are spirit.

In the beginning was the WORD. The Father which is Spirit and invisible spoke the WORD, which is the physical image of that same Spirit. Christ being that image which was made flesh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'll try this again........

John 6:63

63*It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

We know that the WORDS that Christ spoke are spirit.

In the beginning was the WORD. The Father which is Spirit and invisible spoke the WORD, which is the physical image of that same Spirit. Christ being that image which was made flesh.

Does not help.

Jesus did not speak in how own authority even in the OT. But he did speak.

1 In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He (Shows that it was not just a word. but a unique being) was in the beginning with God. (if he was with God, then he must be separate from God (the father) [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (see also Is 48) [SUP]4 [/SUP]In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (again, not a word. but a HE) [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [SUP]7 [/SUP]This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. [SUP]9 [/SUP]That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]10 [/SUP]He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, (Again a him, not as thing, not a word) and the world did not know Him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him

No question, this passage is speaking about a being, separate from the father. Not an idea, not a spoken word. but a being..

 

[stek]

I guess the bible stating that He is God's son is not clear enough. He is the Word made flesh.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If he (assuming you mean Christ here) is the Word made flesh is and the Word was God wouldn't he (the Word made flesh) be GOD?

 

[justamazed]

Does not help.

Jesus did not speak in how own authority even in the OT. But he did speak.

1 In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He (Shows that it was not just a word. but a unique being) was in the beginning with God. (if he was with God, then he must be separate from God (the father) [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (see also Is 48) [SUP]4 [/SUP]In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. (again, not a word. but a HE) [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [SUP]7 [/SUP]This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. [SUP]9 [/SUP]That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]10 [/SUP]He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, (Again a him, not as thing, not a word) and the world did not know Him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him

No question, this passage is speaking about a being, separate from the father. Not an idea, not a spoken word. but a being..

You are free to believe what you want. Just do not condemn me for believing otherwise please. Because if the Word was then a seperate (remember your key word here is being SEPERATE) being then how could either one of them (seperate lol) claim to have stood ALONE?

Just a common sense question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are free to believe what you want. Just do not condemn me for believing otherwise please. Because if the Word was then a seperate (remember your key word here is being SEPERATE) being then how could either one of them (seperate lol) claim to have stood ALONE?

Just a common sense question.

where do you get stood alone from? I can not respond to this until I see it


Scripture says THEY created the heaven and the earth. THEY created man in THEIR image. I am the one who holds the earth in my hands, and the father has sent ME.

If they are not separate persons. I see a more damaging issue.. How can Christ die, and prove the love of God? and have the ability to pay for every sin of every man woman and child who ever lived? if he is not a separate being?

 

[justamazed]

where do you get stood alone from? I can not respond to this until I see it


Scripture says THEY created the heaven and the earth. THEY created man in THEIR image. I am the one who holds the earth in my hands, and the father has sent ME.

If they are not separate persons. I see a more damaging issue.. How can Christ die, and prove the love of God? and have the ability to pay for every sin of every man woman and child who ever lived? if he is not a separate being?

Again you may believe what you want, but for me:



Isaiah 45:4-7

4*For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5*I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6*That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7*I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Now I'm a simple man and I've been around a few years. Lol, I've been around long enough to understand that two males cannot make a son.

Jesus said that wisdom is justified of HER children. So if WISDOM has children then she must be a MOTHER.

Jesus is both the power (male) and the wisdom (female) of God.

"Today I have begotten thee." When He was brought into the world to die.

 

[stek]

Justamazed, I know of nowhere in the bible where it says you have to believe in the trinity to be saved. John 3:16-18 I believe covers salvation.

The trinity, would be a doctrine.

Should you use scriptures to state your case please use the whole verse. I do believe that John1:1 that you butchered saying the word Was God Clearly points out two seperate yet one person. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
While not proving the Trinity I am only refer to this verse since you used part of it.

 

[justamazed]

1 John 1:1-2

1*That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2*(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

 

[mark54]

Justamazed, I know of nowhere in the bible where it says you have to believe in the trinity to be saved. John 3:16-18 I believe covers salvation.

The trinity, would be a doctrine.

.

Absolutely, well put