SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS FEELS GOOD!

[Mitspa]

Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I wonder if some don't see Gods righteousness because they are so busy trying to find some good in themselves?

 

[WheresEnoch]

Really??? Have you read 1 & 2 Corinthians? Galatians? The Corinthian church was embroiled in idolatry, pagan practices they tried to give a Christian flavor, pride, self-righteousness ...

Being disingenuous about God's word does nothing to add to your argument. Especially here:

Tell me, W/E, how many times did he say that? Never mind, I'll tell you: ONCE! The young Corinthian man in 1 Corinthians 5:2-7. And what happened to him, W/E? Never mind, I'll tell you that, too: They received him back into the church after taking Paul's advice! Why? Because he confessed his sin and apologized for the offense, asking their forgiveness. He didn't lose his salvation, he responded to chastisement, as Christ and Paul both taught.

Keep posting stuff like this, you keep proving you don't understand God's word, brother, which means you need to do some serious personal inventory. I pray you will do so.

I am not saying they were perfect, none of us start anywhere near perfection.
They did desire to do what is right in God's eyes. But they did the wrong thing.
So Paul corrected them and set them back on the right path. If they did not accept that correction, they would have been expelled.

The same thing with the sexually immoral person, Paul told them to kick him out.
However, if we are willing to confess and turn from our sins there is forgiveness.
But if we do not turn from those sins, and instead chose to live in them... There is no more sacrifice for sins left

 

[Mitspa]

I am not saying they were perfect, none of us start anywhere near perfection.
They did desire to do what is right in God's eyes. But they did the wrong thing.
So Paul corrected them and set them back on the right path. If they did not accept that correction, they would have been expelled.

The same thing with the sexually immoral person, Paul told them to kick him out.
However, if we are willing to confess and turn from our sins there is forgiveness.
But if we do not turn from those sins, and instead chose to live in them... There is no more sacrifice for sins left

Yep don't be sexually immoral....nor self-righteous ....Paul had them kicked out as well.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

But if we do not turn from those sins, and instead chose to live in them... There is no more sacrifice for sins left

An complete misunderstanding of Hebrews, brother. You've been taught by false prophets, not by the word of God. A perfect example of feeling good in your own self-righteousness.

 

[WheresEnoch]

An complete misunderstanding of Hebrews, brother. You've been taught by false prophets, not by the word of God.

Prove it to me with the words of Christ and I will accept your correction humbly

 

[michael56]

Probably not nearly as many as there should be, but don't worry about the people who fall short.
We encourage them and strengthen them in their understanding of love and obedience.

We cannot use them as justification for our own failings.
We just keep picking up our cross day by day and submit ourselves to the Holy Spirit so that the work which was started in us continues until the day of Christ. If we do not deny ourselves and pick up our cross, we are not following Christ any longer

If we give up the good fight, we give up our life.

The focus and goal is to become love in all things, towards everyone in every circumstance.
Just like our Father.

Are you saying you obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels? If you fib, you are failing to obey them

 

[Mitspa]

Prove it to me with the words of Christ and I will accept your correction humbly

look..there is a topic...try to stay on the topic ..please

 

[DesiredHaven]

Prove it to me with the words of Christ and I will accept your correction humbly

Dont ask anyone to prove anything to help you or you will be accused of diverting the thread

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

The law of moses...every jot and tittle of it....

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

I ask this because some people's like to think that when our dear brother Paul writes about the not by he work's of the law, but by the mercy of God, so some people's use this doctrine to make the good work's according to the faith to unnecessary act's, and lie to the selves.

But you do not mean this kind of situation at all in your Op? Good if you do not, but sadly is, that many people's has fall to in that false doctrine.

 

[WheresEnoch]

Are you saying you obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels? If you fib, you are failing to obey them

Perfect obedience can not be fully achieved while in the flesh.
But we should not be breaking the commandments.
This question is always difficult to answer because the answer can be so easily misunderstood. So I am just going to repost some posts from yesterday.

A fully mature child of God will certainly not sin, but when can never become fully mature while in the flesh.
The flesh will always be an obstacle to perfect submission in this life. Our flesh will always have thoughts which war against the Spirit, but the more mature we become the less and less they occur and the less and less they have any power over us whatsoever. We just get used to taking them captive immediately and dismissing them. Not giving them any place in our inner man for our desires become loving. We begin to despise those fleshly thoughts and they become more of an annoyance than anything. Like a little fly that buzzes around our head from time to time and is easily swatted away.
But in order to get to that point we have to pick up our cross and start following.

The ultimate focus and goal is not obeying the law. It is becoming love.
Love for God, our fellow man and any other created being.
Love that is not dependent on the actions of others or our circumstances, but love that transcends all worldly understanding and wisdom

Yesterday a lustful thought came into my head and I took it captive and put it to death with my old man.
Out of love for God and my wife and children. The key is to not entertain such thoughts. The flesh is bound to bring them up from time to time, especially for a young man. But it is up to us to walk by the Spirit and not allow such things to take hold in our hearts minds and desires.

Keep your eyes on the prize and do everything out of love and obedience to our Father above.
And this is correlates with my understanding of this passage:

Romans 7
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

I do not want to have such thoughts, yet they are inevitable as nothing good comes from my flesh.
But as long as they are not entertained, then it is not us who is sinning but sin which lives in us.
As long as we stop them and bring them before God then we are all good.

No I am not perfect as I am still in the flesh. I do not focus on trying to keep the law per se (we do stop ourselves from breaking them, but the goal is bigger than not breaking them) but do everything out of love for God and people. Love must be the goal, for to dwell on sin will not achieve the righteousness of Christ which we strive for.

I just have this same confidence:

"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil 1:6

And keep on moving forward, knowing that the work of the Holy Spirit in me will continue until the day of Christ if I continue to pick up my cross day by day

 

[blue_ladybug]

look..there is a topic...try to stay on the topic ..please

yeah, what Mitspa said.. the only one allowed to derail this thread is me..lol.. mission accomplished..



carry on with your discussion

 

[michael56]

Thank you for being honest. I take it then you do not obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. Can I ask, do you believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian, or as a Pharisee in Rom 7:14-25

 

[Reborn]

Dont ask anyone to prove anything to help you or you will be accused of diverting the thread

I understand though.
Takes a lot of focus, to show everyone else how self-righteous they are.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Thank you for being honest. I take it then you do not obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. Can I ask, do you believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian, or as a Pharisee in Rom 7:14-25

When he is speaking of these things he speaks as if in the present saying

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

But we know he even states he became all things to all men, whereas we see again here

1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

So he wasnt carnal he could only speak to them as unto carnal (as a spiritual man judgeth all things) he was discerning them

He acknowledges those which are spiritual also

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

But these too can be tempted. I see pride (or being exalted above measure) being these ones temptation

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

So he would speak after a specific manner, and here after the manner of men just as with the perfect he spake wisdom

 

[WheresEnoch]

Thank you for being honest. I take it then you do not obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. Can I ask, do you believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian, or as a Pharisee in Rom 7:14-25

I wrote my understanding of Romans 7 in the above post.

 

[michael56]

I wrote my understanding of Romans 7 in the above post.

Keep your eyes on the prize and do everything out of love and obedience to our Father above.
And this is correlates with my understanding of this passage:

Romans 7
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

I do not want to have such thoughts, yet they are inevitable as nothing good comes from my flesh.
But as long as they are not entertained, then it is not us who is sinning but sin which lives in us.
As long as we stop them and bring them before God then we are all good

As you haven't answered my question, I have copied above what you wrote. It appears from that you believe Paul was speaking of his life as a Christian. This is the full text:

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! Rom 7:14-25

If Paul is speaking as a mature Christian, he is at this time, sold as a slave to sin. The good he wants to do he cannot do, but rather the evil he does not want to do, this he keeps on doing. He cannot do want he wants to do, but instead does what he hates to do(sin) He has the desire to do what is good but cannot carry it out

I am sure you would not claim to sin less than did Paul a mature Christian. Therefore, what you write, concerning how a Christian must live their life, and the standard you set, would appear to be at odds with the standard reflected in your life, if you believe Paul is speaking as a mature Christian in the above quoted verses, and you do not claim to live a more holy life than he did

 

[WheresEnoch]

Keep your eyes on the prize and do everything out of love and obedience to our Father above.
And this is correlates with my understanding of this passage:

Romans 7
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

I do not want to have such thoughts, yet they are inevitable as nothing good comes from my flesh.
But as long as they are not entertained, then it is not us who is sinning but sin which lives in us.
As long as we stop them and bring them before God then we are all good

As you haven't answered my question, I have copied above what you wrote. It appears from that you believe Paul was speaking of his life as a Christian. This is the full text:

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? [SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! Rom 7:14-25

If Paul is speaking as a mature Christian, he is at this time, sold as a slave to sin. The good he wants to do he cannot do, but rather the evil he does not want to do, this he keeps on doing. He cannot do want he wants to do, but instead does what he hates to do(sin) He has the desire to do what is good but cannot carry it out

I am sure you would not claim to sin less than did Paul a mature Christian. Therefore, what you write, concerning how a Christian must live their life, and the standard you set, would appear to be at odds with the standard reflected in your life, if you believe Paul is speaking as a mature Christian in the above quoted verses, and you do not claim to live a more holy life than he did

So I do not have perfect knowledge. I will accept teaching.
But at the same time, my interpretation of Romans 7 has served me well.

The flesh is bound to have sinful thoughts and desires. You take them by the throat and nail them to the cross.
Do not budge an inch. Sin and the flesh come to kill steal and destroy.
We desire to be obedient to God in all things.
For the path we choose to walk is the same that others will follow in.
We love all people and do not want to lead any to destruction out of rebellion to God.

I do not desire to compare myself to anyone else to determine my place in my walk with Christ

 

[Mitspa]

I ask this because some people's like to think that when our dear brother Paul writes about the not by he work's of the law, but by the mercy of God, so some people's use this doctrine to make the good work's according to the faith to unnecessary act's, and lie to the selves.

But you do not mean this kind of situation at all in your Op? Good if you do not, but sadly is, that many people's has fall to in that false doctrine.

Nope I believe in a living faith with works of faith and love....but the topic of the thread is really about self-righteousness and how it feels good to the flesh.

 

[michael56]

So maybe I do not have perfect knowledge. I will accept teaching.
But at the same time, my interpretation of Romans 7 has served me well.

The flesh is bound to have sinful thoughts and desires. You take them by the throat and nail them to the cross.
Do not budge an inch. Sin and the flesh come to kill steal and destroy.
We desire to be obedient to God in all things.
For the path we choose to walk is the same that others will follow in.
We love all people and do not want to lead any to destruction out of rebellion to God

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]2[/SUP]

 

[Mitspa]

I understand though.
Takes a lot of focus, to show everyone else how self-righteous they are.

I know its like a blindness....wonder why? And its seems few want to really face this biblical issue...wonder why?