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And the point I made is more sound - head coverings are not because of the Corinthian culture, its because of angels.
So western culture cannot just cancel it by "we are too lazy to do it".
Also, you did not name even one culturally significant way of showing submission to husband in the church that is visible and permanent in the same way as is the use of head covering.
So western culture cannot just cancel it by "we are too lazy to do it".
Also, you did not name even one culturally significant way of showing submission to husband in the church that is visible and permanent in the same way as is the use of head covering.
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Head coverings are not just "Corinthian" - I thought I made that pretty clear.
It was also never a "religious" thing either - I thought, obviously incorrectly, that you knew that too.
It was common to all cultures in the Middle East including Asia Minor.
Although not uniformly practised in Greece (this is where Corinth is) it was common enough to be universally understood for what it was.
The reason Paul was for this practice was for the very reason that it would be interpreted correctly by those OUTSIDE (non-believers) the church as respect and submission.
Wearing head coverings in Western society today would either be completely meaningless to that society, or evoke a negative response in the same way that Muslim women wearing the hijab or the burka in Western countries does...
It was also never a "religious" thing either - I thought, obviously incorrectly, that you knew that too.
It was common to all cultures in the Middle East including Asia Minor.
Although not uniformly practised in Greece (this is where Corinth is) it was common enough to be universally understood for what it was.
The reason Paul was for this practice was for the very reason that it would be interpreted correctly by those OUTSIDE (non-believers) the church as respect and submission.
Wearing head coverings in Western society today would either be completely meaningless to that society, or evoke a negative response in the same way that Muslim women wearing the hijab or the burka in Western countries does...
I you cant be a free and proper Christian in the US, you can move to Eastern countries. Or just ignore what the world thinks. Your choice, right?
Do not you have the Orthodox church in the US? I think they use head coverings and nobody is calling them bad names because of it.
Have you seen my pictures? What negative response do you think this can produce? Have you witnessed anything ?
Do not you have the Orthodox church in the US? I think they use head coverings and nobody is calling them bad names because of it.
Have you seen my pictures? What negative response do you think this can produce? Have you witnessed anything ?
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M
Samson might have disagreed with you on that one, I wouldn't have liked to mess with
Samson.
Numbers 6:1-5 NKJV
[1] Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, [2] "Speak to the children of Israel, and say
to them: 'When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite,
to separate himself to the LORD, [3] he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink;
he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink;
neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins.
[4] All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine,
from seed to skin. [5] 'All the days of the vow of his separation no razor shall come upon
his head; until the days are fulfilled for which he separated himself to the LORD, he shall
be holy. Then he shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
Samson.
Numbers 6:1-5 NKJV
[1] Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, [2] "Speak to the children of Israel, and say
to them: 'When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite,
to separate himself to the LORD, [3] he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink;
he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink;
neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins.
[4] All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine,
from seed to skin. [5] 'All the days of the vow of his separation no razor shall come upon
his head; until the days are fulfilled for which he separated himself to the LORD, he shall
be holy. Then he shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
M
There is a lot of information on the internet about the cultural norms of the time.
Much of it suggests prostitutes tended to uncover their hair and even go bald.
Whereas some affeminent men grew longer hair.
If that is correct then it would be perfectly acceptable for Paul to remind
the congregation they should respect the cultural norms of the day. They were
experiencing new found freedom in Christ. But that didn't mean they should appear to
be strange. The last thing the church would have wanted was to turn people off by becoming
too strange.
I suppose a modern day equivalent would be if everyone started dressing up as hippies,
you know flower power, hey man. The church was out to draw people to Jesus, not to resemble
a strange sect who dressed oddly. So it would have been perfectly acceptable for Paul to
remind the Church not to cause offence. That they should dress as the cultural norms
of the day dictated.
Imagine how it would be now if a church sprang up where all the women had long hair, wore
long veils or scarves. Long ankle length dresses. While all the men had short hair, beards,
carried big bibles. How would that draw in lost sheep to hear the gospel of salvation.
Oh actually there are churches and sects just like that because they got so hung up in the
cultural norms of bible times. But how are they reaching out to others, they are doing
it in reverse. If Paul was preaching now he would probably remind them of the cultural modern
norm so as not to make the church too strange.
Not everything Paul said was under the heading " thus sayeth the Lord". He was dealing with
a new church, new freedom in Christ. He needed to make sure that freedom did not cause
offence or call the church into disrepute.
Dont believe me take a look at these as an example.
1 Corinthians 11:1 NKJV
[1] Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
Can't see any "thus sayeth the lord here. Paul said
people should imitate him.
-----
1 Corinthians 7:5-7 NKJV
[5] Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may
give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan
does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. [6] But I say this
as a concession, not as a commandment. [7] For I wish that all men were
even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
Not a "thus sayeth the Lord" but a suggestion of Paul's
-----
1 Corinthians 11:1-2 NKJV
[1] Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. [2] Now I praise you, brethren, that
you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
Not a "thus sayeth the Lord" but a tradition.
You have to remember too that for the first time, Jews, Gentiles, free and slaves, men, women were
coming together for the first time all were considered equal. Never before had this been heard of.
There had to be some suggestions and ground rules to ensure things didn't get out of hand.
They were walking on a new frontier.
Im sure God would rather women shouted out the gospel from the roof tops,
had short hair and never wore a hat, if it brought many to Christ. Oops I actually know
of a few women missionaries who pretty much do this.
Do you think God is going to say to them, well done good and faithful servant but
I really would have preferred you to have hair two inches longer when you led
that person to salvation!
While we are at it, I wonder what the men who think like this, are doing to
further the cause of the gospel or are they just wasting all their time reminding
women to wear a hat!
Ps I don't mean all men on here, there are many wonderful brothers in
Christ on CC.
Oh and PPs, Jesus didn't die just to set men free. I think some men think he did.
The problem with your "cultural and prostitution theory" is that, Paul did not construct his reasons in such a way at all.
Paul argues by:
1. position in the authority chain (v 3)
2. position in the glory chain (v 7)
3. position in the creation line (v 8)
4. angels
5. the very nature of things (v 14)
6. the purpose of hair - long hair is the glory of woman (v 15)
Paul argues by:
1. position in the authority chain (v 3)
2. position in the glory chain (v 7)
3. position in the creation line (v 8)
4. angels
5. the very nature of things (v 14)
6. the purpose of hair - long hair is the glory of woman (v 15)
I do not think it matters.
A university education lasts about 5-6 years.
If somebody is a Christian for lets say 20 years and is interested in the history of his faith, takes it openly and without bias, he will become much more learned than with any formal education My opinion.
A university education lasts about 5-6 years.
If somebody is a Christian for lets say 20 years and is interested in the history of his faith, takes it openly and without bias, he will become much more learned than with any formal education
My opinion.
