Sin-Nature Problem

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Noblemen

Senior Member
#41
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#41
Nehemiah6 said:
If what you say is true, then there would have been no need for the apostle John to tell us in plain words in 1 John:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This is addressed to Christians, since only Christians can have fellowship with God, and the context is fellowship with God. So it is a very serious matter to invent your own theology and imagine that you are sinlessly perfect.
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That is soul-mind sins not spirit.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#42
May 23, 2016
4,279
1,411
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#42
Nehemiah6 said:
If what you say is true, then there would have been no need for the apostle John to tell us in plain words in 1 John:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This is addressed to Christians, since only Christians can have fellowship with God, and the context is fellowship with God. So it is a very serious matter to invent your own theology and imagine that you are sinlessly perfect.
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The "sin" of I John 1:8 is very different than the old man, or the sin nature!
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#43
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
12,937
113
#43
Chester said:
The "sin" of I John 1:8 is very different than the old man, or the sin nature!
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Really? Is it not true that sin must originate from the sin nature? Or have you concocted some "new and improved" theology?

There are only two options. Either (a) you are confused or (b) you are trying to sow confusion.
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#44
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#44
Chester said:
The "sin" of I John 1:8 is very different than the old man, or the sin nature!
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Correct, sins of the flesh have to come through the soul with Christ as our life (new nature).
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#45
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#45
jb said:
Rom 7v7-24 is Paul’s pre Christian experience, not his post!

In Rom 7v25-8v9 he tells us that by being born again and through the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and walking in the Spirit he does not walk according to the flesh!

The same truth is also written in Gal 5v16-26, Paul also writes in 1Cor 9v24-27:

“Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.”

After being born again he walked in the Spirit, and not after the flesh!
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I gave you a like at first but apparently didn't read it close enough. Scripture says first that we are no longer in the flesh, but in Spirit. We are spiritual men/women, no longer natural. And we now are connected to the spiritual realm. Formerly we were Only of the world, and responded to the world spirit through the 5 senses of the soulish part of our being. Cutoff from God.

Then we walk in Spirit because of what we are.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#46
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#46
Noblemen said:
Yes that is what I am talking about. Paul had many Revelations but none as far-reaching as the revelation of the indwelling Christ, it opens up different things in scripture to the Believers understanding when they have a revelation of the indwelling Christ as life.
If you look at Galatians chapter 1 you will see where the gospel that Paul preached was a person, verses 11 through 12.
And in verses15 and 16 you see where Paul had his revelation of the indwelling Christ, it is written only in the King James as such.
A lot of the newer translations leave out the in Christ message as well as retranslating Paul's Revelations.
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ok, thank you. Will check the scriptures. :)
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#47
#47
We're not sinners because we sin......we sin because we're sinners. :D

Every saint has a past......every sinner has a future.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#48
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
12,937
113
#48
Noblemen said:
Correct, sins of the flesh have to come through the soul with Christ as our life (new nature).
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Well actually the new nature is IN THE SPIRIT -- the quickened spirit wherein dwells the Holy Spirit. Within the New Covenant is the promise of the "new spirit" through the New Birth.

But "the flesh" (the old man the old Adamic sinful nature, the sin nature) is IN THE HEART (which is a metaphor for the soul). Please note carefully and maintain this distinction (Mark 7:21-23):

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#49
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
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#49
Nehemiah6 said:
Looks like you are still where Nicodemus was in imagining that the New Birth is like the old birth. There is no begetting/conception/gestation since it is an immediate and supernatural event.
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Seems you are totally ignoring/rejecting the fact that we have to 'GROW in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour....that we have to Mature...and not only in age. You saying a Baby has it all magically imputed ? Yes the 'potential is already in GOD's SEED....even as it is in Man's seed to become a human Being....but this in itself is not an 'immedient event ! A 'process is involved for it to become 'reality.!
Then what is the point of 'learning, changing and being converted ?
Did not GOD Himself start His own Son from the point of 'begetting physically Heb 1v5 and also 'spiritually Rom1v4 ?
In order to proceed correctly with our conversion/transformation we should look to the 'human REproduction-process as an example. As scripture says....first the physical then the spiritual...for our understanding !
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#51
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
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#51
star said:
So the new man you speak of has only has nothing to do with the soul?

Is not the soul affected by the spirit and the flesh?
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The new man, same as the new creature of 2 Cor. 5:17, is Christ in you.
Christ-in-you, the two have one.
The expression of that union is by the uniqueness of your creation, soul.
Christ literally lives His life through the believer, that takes revelation, Gal. 1:15-16, and 2:20.
Not limited to these scriptures but a good place to start.
 
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ruach

Guest
#52
#52
star said:
So the new man you speak of has only has nothing to do with the soul?

Is not the soul affected by the spirit and the flesh?
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The soul is your mind, will emotions, passions and intellect
 
R

ruach

Guest
#53
#53
star said:
Being born again has to do with the spiritual part of ourselves. We are still in the flesh and that flesh will continue to war against the born again spirit.

That is the challenge Christians face on a daily basis. As we mature and yield in our Christian walk, that war becomes less. But while on earth, it will never be ended.
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The flesh will obey either your mind or your Spirit.
 
R

ruach

Guest
#54
#54
Nehemiah6 said:
Really? Is it not true that sin must originate from the sin nature? Or have you concocted some "new and improved" theology?

There are only two options. Either (a) you are confused or (b) you are trying to sow confusion.
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James 1:13-16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

This says that Sin starts in the mind, not the nature/spirit. Eve was tempted through her mind, not her sin nature, she did not have one prior to the fall.
 
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ruach

Guest
#55
#55
pottersclay said:
We're not sinners because we sin......we sin because we're sinners. :D

Every saint has a past......every sinner has a future.
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sinner is past, saint that will still sin is present.

Once converted you are no longer a poor ole sinner saved by grace.
 
R

ruach

Guest
#56
#56
Nehemiah6 said:
Well actually the new nature is IN THE SPIRIT -- the quickened spirit wherein dwells the Holy Spirit. Within the New Covenant is the promise of the "new spirit" through the New Birth.

But "the flesh" (the old man the old Adamic sinful nature, the sin nature) is IN THE HEART (which is a metaphor for the soul). Please note carefully and maintain this distinction (Mark 7:21-23):

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
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The Sin nature only has supremacy if you man does not walk in or by the his spirit.
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#57
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#57
ruach said:
The Sin nature only has supremacy if you man does not walk in or by the his spirit.[/

That places the doing back on the believer. Why would even need a cross if an individual can do it them selves.
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