So apparently I am no longer a Christian, because I am Intersex

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S

Strickalator

Guest
Something else i will add:
This is a bit of a conundrum by your definitions of who I can date or marry:

If you know you are a woman inside and yet look like a male and you date a male, you would be giving the appearance of sin and people would see you as gay male,regardless of how you felt.

Then if you transform your body to match your mind, you could date a man and be seen as hetereosexual by people and not giving the appearance of sin, and yet people that know about you will still tell you , you are sinning and are not really a woman at all, but a gay male who transformed the body.

If you are with a woman then you will be seen as a lesbian by most except for those who knew you before, those people would see you as not sinning perhaps since they still think your male.

This is quite the conundrum and this is the stance your taking now I know. So what then, people born intersex and transgender must never be allowed to marry or love and date and have meaningful romantic relationships? That's a pretty harsh thing to tell someone.

 
Sep 8, 2012
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What are you talking about?
You said you were raped by a man when you were fifteen years old.
The only conundrum is your fragile brokenness. (of which you are not responsible for, or at fault)
I'm telling you, it is a common occurrence for a victim of same sex rape at a young age to be confused about their sexuality.
Look it up.
Please!
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Then what do you do with these passages and the meanings of this word

Fornication - consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

1 Corinthians 7

7 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

Where does it say that it is man to man,or woman to woman in this passage?

Colossians 3

5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.

1 Thessalonians 4

3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should learn to control your own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5 not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; 6 and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. 7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 4

2 As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

1 John 2

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

1 Corinthians 6

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Sexual Immorality

12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Jude 1

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

lasciviousness - lewd,lustfull

Galatians 5

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Revelation 2

18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

Romans 13

11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.[c]

1 Timothy 1

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Hebrews 12

14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.

Add in all of Leviticus chapters 18 and 20 and Numbers chapter 5

How much clearer does God have to be to show that sexual acts outside the bonds of a marriage between man and a woman is sin?
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Something else i will add:
This is a bit of a conundrum by your definitions of who I can date or marry:

If you know you are a woman inside and yet look like a male and you date a male, you would be giving the appearance of sin and people would see you as gay male,regardless of how you felt.

Then if you transform your body to match your mind, you could date a man and be seen as hetereosexual by people and not giving the appearance of sin, and yet people that know about you will still tell you , you are sinning and are not really a woman at all, but a gay male who transformed the body.

If you are with a woman then you will be seen as a lesbian by most except for those who knew you before, those people would see you as not sinning perhaps since they still think your male.

This is quite the conundrum and this is the stance your taking now I know. So what then, people born intersex and transgender must never be allowed to marry or love and date and have meaningful romantic relationships? That's a pretty harsh thing to tell someone.

It is not what I say it is what the Lord says. He has only given us two options and that is either we marriage according to His will which is one man and one woman or it is celibacy. You change your body and you give up all rights to be married. God never said that our lives would be rose gardens,Jesus told us we must pick up our cross and follow Him,picking up ones cross means we need to die ourselves. We are to crucify the flesh,have our minds renewed and have our hearts of stone replaced with a heart of flesh and we are to tear down every vain imagination. No the Lord never said it would be easy,He never promised us happiness in this life,in fact He told us we would have hardships and trials,and this just happens to be ours,but if we let Him we can overcome this in His way not ours.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Shawn,

I do not want to do this but I am compelled to give you this warning,be very careful as you are getting very close to open rebellion against the Lord,you have been warned over and over and over again and again. Your first warning which you believed was from the Lord told you not to go down this because you would end up right where you at the moment,you have been warned about the false prophets,you have been warned time after time about what God requires for sexual purity,you have been told to look for your healing by dealing with the abuse issues,you have been warned that the dream does not line up with God's revealed word. Please be careful because He will run out of patience and God deals with rebellion very very harshly. I am not saying this to hurt you but it needs to be said.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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And another thing to think about,when God said a marriage is between a man and a women it goes beyond sex. They bring balance to each other. Men have certain things about them that compliments a woman,and vice versa. When you have two women or two men that balance is no longer there. Certain needs are no longer met and it is out of whack. Why do you think the divorce rate for transsexuals is so high? Do you honestly think that after transition and then going into a woman and woman relationship is really going to change that or i it still outside of the balance that God intended for marriage?
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Strickalator,
Please read and consider what SarahM777 is saying, she is speaking truth.
God bless you! (I'm praying that His will is done in your life)
 
S

Strickalator

Guest
I give up for now Sarah, I sent you everything I could, that seemed relevant for now , including links to books that explain the clobbering passages and what they mean within the context and the people and the times they were written in. Right now your heart is hardened like Pharaoh, You are at a place where you can't accept it and that's ok. I am not at that place, I hope you will someday be able to study scripture and have some hope. You will not be able to change my mind on this.

The answer to being transgender and intersex for me , is simply this

"God will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of God's glory"

I am not required by God or even being asked by God to continue to live in a mostly male body. If I had lived 100 years ago i would have had no choice, but I do now and I am taking that choice. You and I are on different paths, I know you have been called by God to not change your body, even though you have some of the same issues that I do, and that is fine also.


 
S

Strickalator

Guest
Who are you, among all people to judge me Sarah? You have many friends who are just like me on other online sites. You and I both know Godly men and women who are transgender and intersex and yet also have partners that they are attracted to. You need to let the Lord be my judge and stop looking at the speck in my eye.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I have dated women always and have been attracted to women always, I don't want to be alone, I need a wife. I am 40 years old and still searching. What If I had Down's syndrome and that is also a condition, am I not allowed to love and be loved in return, just because i have a condition? That makes no sense.
It seems you are a man with some physical female manifestation(s). You are still a vessel of Yahweh, God. Since you know you are a man, the physical manifestations have no bearing on your identity or your being a brother in Yeshua, Jesus. Keep on in Yeshua, and also very important, read His teaching. I know all will be well. May Yahweh bless you and hold you close forever, amen.
 
S

Strickalator

Guest
I am not a man, so please stop calling me one.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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I give up for now Sarah, I sent you everything I could, that seemed relevant for now , including links to books that explain the clobbering passages and what they mean within the context and the people and the times they were written in. Right now your heart is hardened like Pharaoh, You are at a place where you can't accept it and that's ok. I am not at that place, I hope you will someday be able to study scripture and have some hope. You will not be able to change my mind on this.

The answer to being transgender and intersex for me , is simply this

"God will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of God's glory"

I am not required by God or even being asked by God to continue to live in a mostly male body. If I had lived 100 years ago i would have had no choice, but I do now and I am taking that choice. You and I are on different paths, I know you have been called by God to not change your body, even though you have some of the same issues that I do, and that is fine also.


I know what they say about the clobbering verses but my question is did you even read the post? If you had you have realized that all of those verses go beyond homosexuality. They are about sexual immorality as a whole,which you should have realized from the inclusion of Leviticus 18,20 and Numbers Chapter 5.

 
J

jo_ptrp

Guest
God loves you because He created you that way...thanks that you are informing us thru this thread about this condition.:)
 
Dec 26, 2012
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I give up for now Sarah, I sent you everything I could, that seemed relevant for now , including links to books that explain the clobbering passages and what they mean within the context and the people and the times they were written in. Right now your heart is hardened like Pharaoh, You are at a place where you can't accept it and that's ok. I am not at that place, I hope you will someday be able to study scripture and have some hope. You will not be able to change my mind on this.

I can accept it and I am at peace with the Lord. It is one to thing to carry it and have to deal with it,but it must be dealt within the boundaries that the Lord has set,and within that we are not to sin. No matter how much we want to we can not take what is within God's revealed written word and try to make it say something that it doesn't say. We are as it says in 2 Timothy 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You can not get away from the fact it must be looked at from a Hebraic perspective and not from a Gentile perspective.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I am not a man, so please stop calling me one.
Forgive my total misconception. Because of your words, I thought you were stating you are a man. Please disregard anything I have posted-
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Who are you, among all people to judge me Sarah? You have many friends who are just like me on other online sites. You and I both know Godly men and women who are transgender and intersex and yet also have partners that they are attracted to. You need to let the Lord be my judge and stop looking at the speck in my eye.
Shawn,
Just to make you aware of it,I am only on one other site besides here. I know of four that I can truly count as friends. Two are married because they came to this after they had already been married and are still remaining in their marriages. One is a straight male. There are very few true Christians on there. Most that say they are,are more like the resident seminarian,who have added paganism into the mix,or have taken the total liberal view of things,and do not believe that the Bible can be taken as being literal. How many have ever stood up against the resident seminarian,who also happens to be a witch? You should be all too aware of what happens when one says that Jesus is the only way,and that there is no other way. See what happens when one even states that homosexuality or lesbianism is not good from a medical factual basis. Been there done that. See how one is flamed even for that. At best I am tolerated there,and even when I have taken a break because I must not one has ever missed me. Humanly speaking I am for the most part alone. I am painfully aware of the fact I will get it from both sides,I know how groups like Westboro Baptist view us and give us no hope ever of salvation,we are freaks,perverted,and mental cases and are only good for destruction. Never mind the fact that Jesus came to seek and save the lost,give sight to the blind,heal the sick,make the lame to walk and set the captives free. But on the other side speak about the fact that God has a plumb line for our lives and see where that goes. Speak about the fact that God says be ye Holy as I am Holy. Go and sin no more. Speak about the cross and what it really means to crucify our flesh,get rid all of the things that do not please the Lord. Talk about dying to oneself. Talk about any of these things and see what happens on the other side.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Who are you, among all people to judge me Sarah? You have many friends who are just like me on other online sites. You and I both know Godly men and women who are transgender and intersex and yet also have partners that they are attracted to. You need to let the Lord be my judge and stop looking at the speck in my eye.
Sorry Shawn,
But as Christians if we see a brother or sister falling into things that are against what God has plainly given as His plumb line,we are to rebuke them and correct them

2 Timothy 4

4 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Revelation 3

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Hebrews 12

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son
.”[a]
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. 13 “Make level paths for your feet,” so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.

James 5

19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

If we truly love our brothers and sisters,we are to rebuke,correct,exhort and admonish those that are in error to turn them away from the path they are on.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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God loves you because He created you that way...thanks that you are informing us thru this thread about this condition.:)
Have you not read?
Gen.1

[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen.5

[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
hi strick
Remember .....
who does Christ say you are? And most importantly (WHO) do you believe ?
men? The world? Or Christ? It is a matter of WHO we believe....
Christ has already told all of us who we are...
you are a "display" of the Lord! HE created you and perfectly! remember the blind man who could not see in John?
our conditions have nothing to do with us , our conditions have everything to do with what God is doing to show the world who He is... keep your "focus" not in your state of being less you be dragged off to some foreign place (spiritually speaking ).. enemies nber one tactic? To steal your focus and get it off Christ and on to something else... He will use anyone and anything to do this, so remember! Focus on Christ.... Our salvation is not based in anything we are doing , our bodies are doing,... our salvation is based only on what Christ has done for us... It is finished! He says " you are
Mine! I have already adopted you into My kingdom... our belief systems are very fragile... when things like this come
To us it is shocking, can numb us, confuse us even , ( about who we are..) it's like we go into a fog
Or haze and can't see... THIS is the area we cry out to
god for help , as it is an opportunity to call on Him .. we can not see without Him.... you are a
Christian , a righteous heir... he says you(ARE MINE!) ( You
Have already been bought with a price !) t NO ONE can
Pluck you from my hand .....He says to us -->( you ARE holy , you ARE loved . do not try to lean on your own understanding in times of trouble ... but instead cast every fear, every doubt, every concern upon Me!) I
AM your God.. A mighty savior who saves you in times of
Trouble). ( call upon him). Read his word ... Let him remind you of all that you are.... You are perfact and beautiful in his eyes. As we all are!
Check belief systems.. Always check! Continually ask .... WHO DO I BELIEVE??? Always always always believe God , even if an army is facing you..
You ARE a "child" of God...not a male of God, not a female of God, but a "child" of God... put your "FOCUS" on these things...
Perfectly and wonderfully made... (I CREATED YOU)
 
P

Powemm

Guest
no matter what anyone says about you ..... god has something different to say to it ... Check in with him continually.... He will help you through this :)