Speaking of Hornet's Nests...

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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#201
Nov 12, 2015
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#201
eternally-gratefull said:
You have not seen many movies. Many people stay because they do not think the danger is real. Or they are too scared to run.

Of course, we are talking about things unseen, It is hard to use an example like that, because more than likely everyone would run.. because they SEE the danger, the issue is, We do nto see hell, We do not see our sin or the condemnation which is against us because of sin, Non of us were alive when the cross happenbed,

We just trust God when he says they are true (faiht is the substance of things hoped for. The EVIDENCE of things NOT SEEN.

The world wants to trust in things they can see. Thats why they reject God.. and Jesus was just a good man,
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Ah, yes, but my example was not concerning things unseen. The man suddenly saw Godzilla was real whereas before he had NOT seen Godzilla was real.

And you're right. We do not see hell, the danger. We have to first see to run. And we are blind. So He must first give us sight.

This is why in my Godzilla example I ended it by saying, all who saw him would run. UNLESS there was a blind man there.
 
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LPT

Guest
#202
#202
Stunnedbygrace said:
Pharoah as an example may not be great because God hardened his heart...so the example of the man who would choose to stand and say no I'm not going to run from Godzilla would need an added parameter if we use pharaoh as an example. And I'm sorry, I have no idea why what I'm saying is not coming out in sync with the movement of my lips. Its very odd...
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You use one example of Pharoah's heart

there are three in Exodus 7:3, 13, 14

since you taking about the OT, look to Hebrew langauage for proper explaination of the three words used to describe Pharioahs heart.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#203
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
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#203
Stunnedbygrace said:
Pharoah as an example may not be great because God hardened his heart...so the example of the man who would choose to stand and say no I'm not going to run from Godzilla would need an added parameter if we use pharaoh as an example. And I'm sorry, I have no idea why what I'm saying is not coming out in sync with the movement of my lips. Its very odd...
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Yep...lol on the Godzilla stuff...I had a hard time using Godzilla as an example, too...lol

With Pharaoh though, God did not harden his heart to begin with. Pharaoh chose to keep hardening his own heart until God finally hardened it for him to the point of no return...

God keep sending Moses to warn him and gave him chance after chance to obey him. However, Pharaoh would not listen, even after so many chances... then that's when God hardened it.
 
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LPT

Guest
#204
#204
1ofthem said:
Yep...lol on the Godzilla stuff...I had a hard time using Godzilla as an example, too...lol

With Pharaoh though, God did not harden his heart to begin with. Pharaoh chose to keep hardening his own heart until God finally hardened it for him to the point of no return...

God keep sending Moses to warn him and gave him chance after chance to obey him. However, Pharaoh would not listen, even after so many chances... then that's when God hardened it.
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I believe the statement is like this example below.

if I steal your lawnmower and you become angry over it, yes indeed I angered your heart but I did not change your will to do so.

as in the bible the pleague's hardened the Phariohs heart, thus God hardened his heart.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#205
#205
Stunnedbygrace said:
Ah, yes, but my example was not concerning things unseen. The man suddenly saw Godzilla was real whereas before he had NOT seen Godzilla was real.

And you're right. We do not see hell, the danger. We have to first see to run. And we are blind. So He must first give us sight.

This is why in my Godzilla example I ended it by saying, all who saw him would run. UNLESS there was a blind man there.
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Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things NOT SEEN.

I will take Gods word for it.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#206
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#206
eternally-gratefull said:
Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things NOT SEEN.

I will take Gods word for it.
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Ah the fear of the lake of fire is something not seen. It is there because Gods word has described it to us.

We hope for eternal life and we fear eternal condemnation. Both are equally certain and the evidence of faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#207
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#207
1ofthem said:
Yep...lol on the Godzilla stuff...I had a hard time using Godzilla as an example, too...lol

With Pharaoh though, God did not harden his heart to begin with. Pharaoh chose to keep hardening his own heart until God finally hardened it for him to the point of no return...

God keep sending Moses to warn him and gave him chance after chance to obey him. However, Pharaoh would not listen, even after so many chances... then that's when God hardened it.
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Yes. So he is the man who would stand and not run because he is blind. He is not the men who see that Godzilla is real and so they run. One is a seeing man and one is a blind man. (For whatever reason, the man is blind, cannot see the lizard, and so does not run.) But my example was men who didn't see and believe Godzilla was real but then suddenly saw he was because he showed himself to their very eyes. These men would all run. Wouldn't it be kind of silly to think they wouldn't?

Now, remember, all of this was to try to give you a peek into the part you said it was very hard for you to understand about those who process it all a bit differently than you. They think they had no choice but to believe God didn't exist because they couldn't see Him. But then when they suddenly could see Him, it would never occur to them to insist that they could have made any other choice if they wanted to, BUT to run to Him. Maybe these men are just more simpleminded than you but they can't understand the point of arguing over whether or not they could have chosen to not run to Him because that was not even a remote thought to them in light of the truth they had just seen.

Some men come to God differently, like EG when he says he studied for many years before he was saved. In that way, he believes he made a choice. And I suppose he did. After years of studying the bible, he made a choice to believe it.

But other men, like me, didn't do that studying for years. One moment they didn't see and the next moment they just did. And they said: where else would I go? He is the truth.

The different way they came to Him has bearing on how they process and view it.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#209
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
#209
LPT said:
I believe the statement is like this example below.

if I steal your lawnmower and you become angry over it, yes indeed I angered your heart but I did not change your will to do so.

as in the bible the pleague's hardened the Phariohs heart, thus God hardened his heart.
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Good post and good explanation and Exodus 8:32 says it plainly as well.

And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#210
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#210
Have enjoyed talking with you guys. Am off to read Ariel's new thread, which I have really been excited about because it is about the spirit of the word. :) hope it stays that way!
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#211
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
#211
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes. So he is the man who would stand and not run because he is blind. He is not the men who see that Godzilla is real and so they run. One is a seeing man and one is a blind man. (For whatever reason, the man is blind, cannot see the lizard, and so does not run.) But my example was men who didn't see and believe Godzilla was real but then suddenly saw he was because he showed himself to their very eyes. These men would all run. Wouldn't it be kind of silly to think they wouldn't?

Now, remember, all of this was to try to give you a peek into the part you said it was very hard for you to understand about those who process it all a bit differently than you. They think they had no choice but to believe God didn't exist because they couldn't see Him. But then when they suddenly could see Him, it would never occur to them to insist that they could have made any other choice if they wanted to, BUT to run to Him. Maybe these men are just more simpleminded than you but they can't understand the point of arguing over whether or not they could have chosen to not run to Him because that was not even a remote thought to them in light of the truth they had just seen.

Some men come to God differently, like EG when he says he studied for many years before he was saved. In that way, he believes he made a choice. And I suppose he did. After years of studying the bible, he made a choice to believe it.

But other men, like me, didn't do that studying for years. One moment they didn't see and the next moment they just did. And they said: where else would I go? He is the truth.

The different way they came to Him has bearing on how they process and view it.
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The thing about it is though it is still a choice when God draws you. No, not everyone will respond the same way and it may take some longer than others. It comes down to will we choose the light or will we stay in darkness. That's still the choice and it is up to each and everyone of us to make our own choice. I do think God knows what we will choose, but he doesn't make the choice for us or make anyone choose him.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#212
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
12,937
113
#212
1ofthem said:
With Pharaoh though, God did not harden his heart to begin with. Pharaoh chose to keep hardening his own heart until God finally hardened it for him to the point of no return...
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This is correct. This evil Pharaoh who succeeded the one who had promoted Joseph to the highest position in Egypt must have surely known all about Joseph and the Israelites. But he also noted that God was blessing the children of Israel, and was fearful that they would have great influence in Egypt. So long before Moses came on the scene he began to persecute the Israelites and demand that their children be killed. So he was already any enemy of God and Israel when he took office. But God gave him plenty of opportunities to repent, yet he continued to harden his heart until God finally hardened it so that there could be no repentance.

God did not deal with this Pharaoh arbitrarily (as some imagine) just as he does not deal arbitrarily with any sinner. He gives everyone several opportunities to repent. But since God already knew the end from the beginning, we read this in Scripture:

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (Rom 9:17)

What is God saying here? That knowing how Pharaoh would do evil to the children of Israel, God would use this evil man to show His mighty power and be glorified throughout the earth. Those signs in Egypt showed God's mighty power, and then the total destruction of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea supernaturally also showed God's might power. This Divine deliverance of Israel was surely known to all the surrounding nations, and beyond.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#213
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
#213
Nehemiah6 said:
This is correct. This evil Pharaoh who succeeded the one who had promoted Joseph to the highest position in Egypt must have surely known all about Joseph and the Israelites. But he also noted that God was blessing the children of Israel, and was fearful that they would have great influence in Egypt. So long before Moses came on the scene he began to persecute the Israelites and demand that their children be killed. So he was already any enemy of God and Israel when he took office. But God gave him plenty of opportunities to repent, yet he continued to harden his heart until God finally hardened it so that there could be no repentance.

God did not deal with this Pharaoh arbitrarily (as some imagine) just as he does not deal arbitrarily with any sinner. He gives everyone several opportunities to repent. But since God already knew the end from the beginning, we read this in Scripture:

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (Rom 9:17)

What is God saying here? That knowing how Pharaoh would do evil to the children of Israel, God would use this evil man to show His mighty power and be glorified throughout the earth. Those signs in Egypt showed God's mighty power, and then the total destruction of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea supernaturally also showed God's might power. This Divine deliverance of Israel was surely known to all the surrounding nations, and beyond.
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Amen...good post.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#214
#214
eternally-gratefull said:
By the way, You opened a thread MOCKING those who believe they were drawn by God and give God all credit for allowing them, and giving them the option to say yes.

I hope you did not think that was going to go well. It never does.
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No, I opened the thread laughing at people for thinking we choose God. Drawn we both agree on. Salvation by our choice I laugh at. Still do.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#215
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
12,937
113
#215
Depleted said:
No, I opened the thread laughing at people for thinking we choose God.
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And God must be laughing at you for thinking that people DO NOT choose God. "Choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Josh 24:15).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#216
#216
notuptome said:
Ah the fear of the lake of fire is something not seen. It is there because Gods word has described it to us.

We hope for eternal life and we fear eternal condemnation. Both are equally certain and the evidence of faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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thats my point, You can not see them, You have to trust that they are there

Thats different than a big chevy truck driving at you 50 mph and not slowing down. Of course your gonna run from it,
 
L

LPT

Guest
#217
#217
Nehemiah6 said:
[/SIZE]And God must be laughing at you for thinking that people DO NOT choose God. "Choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Josh 24:15).
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There is thing called probate,

anyone who laughs at choosing salvation is not a laughing matter but a sad matter.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#218
#218
Stunnedbygrace said:
Faith is assurance and conviction.
(When I say I suddenly saw Him, it was not visibly, but it was very real.)
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It is still in things unseen, Not in things seen. Things you can see touch and feel are not faith, they are knowledge.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#219
#219
LPT said:
There is thing called probate,

anyone who laughs at choosing salvation is not a laughing matter but a sad matter.
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Salvation is the most important matter in anyones life,. It is not a laughing matter in any sense of the word..
 
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LPT

Guest
#220
#220
eternally-gratefull said:
Salvation is the most important matter in anyones life,. It is not a laughing matter in any sense of the word..
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Totally and laughing at salvation is like playing with fire, it's dangerous and not a wise thing to do at all.
 
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