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I suppose it is in your superstitious state of mind where you are free to change what was said into what you want it to say to prove how far superior you are.
In reality, since you stepped so far away from what was really said, it's no more dangerous than sitting on a chair.
I would be bothered about lying about other believers, but then again, I'm not you. I lost your level of arrogance a while ago. Thank you, Lord. (Long hard lessons.)
In reality, since you stepped so far away from what was really said, it's no more dangerous than sitting on a chair.
I would be bothered about lying about other believers, but then again, I'm not you. I lost your level of arrogance a while ago. Thank you, Lord. (Long hard lessons.)
D
You didn't!
I did just that -- woke up one morning believing God.
Hubby did just that. Went to bed one night furious over a believer after she shot him down again with his latest list of excuses against God. So angry he just got the thought to kill her. And then he woke up a believer.
A friend took a gun to his father's wedding because his father was both marrying a younger woman and NOT marrying in the Catholic Church, so he took a gun to shoot his father and the woman marrying him. Instead, God saved him.
So you didn't automatically believe. (And, in a way, none of us did either.) Don't make that the gospel either.
It's not automatic. It's God! And he does it in many ways, but HE does it, not us!
I did just that -- woke up one morning believing God.
Hubby did just that. Went to bed one night furious over a believer after she shot him down again with his latest list of excuses against God. So angry he just got the thought to kill her. And then he woke up a believer.
A friend took a gun to his father's wedding because his father was both marrying a younger woman and NOT marrying in the Catholic Church, so he took a gun to shoot his father and the woman marrying him. Instead, God saved him.
So you didn't automatically believe. (And, in a way, none of us did either.) Don't make that the gospel either.
It's not automatic. It's God! And he does it in many ways, but HE does it, not us!
E
Choosing salvation is, indeed, laughable. It's up there with choosing to swim down into the Mariana Trench. Just downright funny thinking anyone who thinks just because they choose it, they must be able to do what they choose.
And again, you mock.. I am done.. Enjoy your life and your "party"
D
Ummmm, feel free to hate double predestination. That's not a Calvinist belief. That's my belief. Something apart from what most Calvinists believe. I see it in that verse in my signy. If God works out all things for those whom he has chosen, then what does he do for those he does not chose? That's it. The final extent of my argument for double predestination. So I'm malleable on that, if someone can give me a good reason that's not working. (And, so far, all I got was "because that's not what Calvinists believe." Big whoop. Like you, I don't buy what I believe just because it's branded. lol)
And regeneration comes before justification? Ha! Feel free to disagree with that too, given that really is something I agree with along with Calvinists, in general. It makes sense to me because how can you justify something not yet born? But, God being God, and he preordained us and foreknew us before the universe was created, I surely get why you could easily disagree with me.
Still not getting how you didn't choose but were drawn to God at the same time though.
When I imagine drawn, I imagine a piece of iron near a magnet. Somehow you seem to think you had some say somehow, to the point of the word "allow" getting in your explanation. (As in, "God allows us.")
You've told me three different ways you think this happens. I'm still seeing choice involved in what you're saying, and yet not seeing choice when you say it. (You don't believe "choice." You do believe "allow.") Cannot wrap my head around this. Can you use a different example or a different way of saying what you believe? I also didn't get when to use lay and when to use laid, until the third article on the subject. After three tries I'm a little steadier on the difference between the two words, but still don't get it fully.
I do get stuff when explained in different ways often enough. Can you try same-lesson-different-way, so I can get what you believe?
And regeneration comes before justification? Ha! Feel free to disagree with that too, given that really is something I agree with along with Calvinists, in general. It makes sense to me because how can you justify something not yet born? But, God being God, and he preordained us and foreknew us before the universe was created, I surely get why you could easily disagree with me.
Still not getting how you didn't choose but were drawn to God at the same time though.
When I imagine drawn, I imagine a piece of iron near a magnet. Somehow you seem to think you had some say somehow, to the point of the word "allow" getting in your explanation. (As in, "God allows us.")
You've told me three different ways you think this happens. I'm still seeing choice involved in what you're saying, and yet not seeing choice when you say it. (You don't believe "choice." You do believe "allow.") Cannot wrap my head around this. Can you use a different example or a different way of saying what you believe? I also didn't get when to use lay and when to use laid, until the third article on the subject. After three tries I'm a little steadier on the difference between the two words, but still don't get it fully.
I do get stuff when explained in different ways often enough. Can you try same-lesson-different-way, so I can get what you believe?
D
Okay, so you're new, and probably haven't seen my often-gone-through counters yet, so here goes:
1. If free will was a thing important to God, it would be shown in the Bible often enough that we'd know it was important to God. Given it is never in the Bible, I'm going with either it just doesn't matter, (like the raspberry doesn't matter), or it's wrong. Given I can go with person by person throughout the Bible who did absolutely nothing through the power of free will, I chose second choice.
2. We do have will. We do have choice. BUT will and choice is directly connected to our nature. For instance, as much as we will ourselves to live at the South Pole, we cannot live at the South Pole. The very nature of our being dictates conditions in the south pole cannot sustain us, even if we really really will it. Therefore, "free will" does not exist. Sinful nature does.
Standard example: Cats are omnivores. They need both meat and plants to eat, therefore, they're nature is omnivore. That said, put a starving lion in the middle of a field of wheat, and the lion is going to starve to death, before it eats the wheat. Not that it can't eat the wheat. It can, and should, because his body really could use the wheat, but he never thinks to choose the wheat. We are lions. We not only can choose God and should, in our unfallen nature we would. In our fallen nature, it never dawns on us to do so.
So, yeah, we have will, and we have choice, but we can never will that which is beyond our nature to will. And we certainly are perfectly capable of choosing God. But we love the darkness, because our deeds are evil. And therefore, each and every time, we chose the darkness, not the Lord.
Which is why the gospel belongs to God and should be about God, not free will!
1. If free will was a thing important to God, it would be shown in the Bible often enough that we'd know it was important to God. Given it is never in the Bible, I'm going with either it just doesn't matter, (like the raspberry doesn't matter), or it's wrong. Given I can go with person by person throughout the Bible who did absolutely nothing through the power of free will, I chose second choice.
2. We do have will. We do have choice. BUT will and choice is directly connected to our nature. For instance, as much as we will ourselves to live at the South Pole, we cannot live at the South Pole. The very nature of our being dictates conditions in the south pole cannot sustain us, even if we really really will it. Therefore, "free will" does not exist. Sinful nature does.
Standard example: Cats are omnivores. They need both meat and plants to eat, therefore, they're nature is omnivore. That said, put a starving lion in the middle of a field of wheat, and the lion is going to starve to death, before it eats the wheat. Not that it can't eat the wheat. It can, and should, because his body really could use the wheat, but he never thinks to choose the wheat. We are lions. We not only can choose God and should, in our unfallen nature we would. In our fallen nature, it never dawns on us to do so.
So, yeah, we have will, and we have choice, but we can never will that which is beyond our nature to will. And we certainly are perfectly capable of choosing God. But we love the darkness, because our deeds are evil. And therefore, each and every time, we chose the darkness, not the Lord.
Which is why the gospel belongs to God and should be about God, not free will!
So busy telling God what they are doing they do not have time to listen to what God has done.
Less of me more of Him. I am weak He is strong. He has overcome. It is finished.
The train is in the station and seats are available. Get on board before the train leaves the station and it's too late. Get in sit down and go where the train is going.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Less of me more of Him. I am weak He is strong. He has overcome. It is finished.
The train is in the station and seats are available. Get on board before the train leaves the station and it's too late. Get in sit down and go where the train is going.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
D
Really? Because you said you never chose God, and yet keep thinking I'm mocking you? That wasn't even to you!
I'm laughing at people who think they chose God. You said you didn't believe that, so how am I mocking you?
And, btw, this is what always happens. You think everything is about you, so you rile against everyone and then storm away with your bat and ball after you're done riling.
Childish!
I'm laughing at people who think they chose God. You said you didn't believe that, so how am I mocking you?
And, btw, this is what always happens. You think everything is about you, so you rile against everyone and then storm away with your bat and ball after you're done riling.
Childish!
E
reminds me of the song people get ready,
People get ready
There's a train a comin'
You don't need no baggage
You just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesels hummin'
You don't need no ticket
You just thank the Lord
So people get ready
There'a a train to Jordan
Picking up passengers
Coast to coast
Faith is the key
Open the doors and board them
There's hope for all
Among those loved the most
There ain't no room
For the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind
Just to save his own
Have pity on those whose
Chances grow thinner
There's no hiding place
Against the Kingdom's throne
People get ready
There's a train a comin'
You don't need no baggage
You just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesels hummin'
You don't need no ticket
You just thank the Lord
So people get ready
There'a a train to Jordan
Picking up passengers
Coast to coast
Faith is the key
Open the doors and board them
There's hope for all
Among those loved the most
There ain't no room
For the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind
Just to save his own
Have pity on those whose
Chances grow thinner
There's no hiding place
Against the Kingdom's throne
Here's the thing: John 3 talks about being born again. Within the context (and I believe the way to be born again) God lays it all out - He so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. Whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. . . . whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned because they have not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son . . .
(v19) THIS IS THE VERDICT: (of what was previously stated concerning those that are condemned) - they prefer to stay in the dark with their deeds hid. BUT those who live by the truth (those who believe in the name of Jesus Christ) come to the light (by believing in Jesus Christ) so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done (believe in the name of Jesus Christ) has been done in the sight of God. . . .
So wouldn't the choice be - to believe unto eternal life or to not believe and stand condemned?
No one can choose to believe in the name of God's only begotten Son?
(thank you, EG
- you know what for)
(v19) THIS IS THE VERDICT: (of what was previously stated concerning those that are condemned) - they prefer to stay in the dark with their deeds hid. BUT those who live by the truth (those who believe in the name of Jesus Christ) come to the light (by believing in Jesus Christ) so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done (believe in the name of Jesus Christ) has been done in the sight of God. . . .
So wouldn't the choice be - to believe unto eternal life or to not believe and stand condemned?
No one can choose to believe in the name of God's only begotten Son?
(thank you, EG
- you know what for)
E
Here's the thing: John 3 talks about being born again. Within the context (and I believe the way to be born again) God lays it all out - He so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. Whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. . . . whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned because they have not believed in the name of God's only begotten Son . . .
(v19) THIS IS THE VERDICT: (of what was previously stated concerning those that are condemned) - they prefer to stay in the dark with their deeds hid. BUT those who live by the truth (those who believe in the name of Jesus Christ) come to the light (by believing in Jesus Christ) so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done (believe in the name of Jesus Christ) has been done in the sight of God. . . .
So wouldn't the choice be - to believe unto eternal life or to not believe and stand condemned?
No one can choose to believe in the name of God's only begotten Son?
(thank you, EG - you know what for)
(v19) THIS IS THE VERDICT: (of what was previously stated concerning those that are condemned) - they prefer to stay in the dark with their deeds hid. BUT those who live by the truth (those who believe in the name of Jesus Christ) come to the light (by believing in Jesus Christ) so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done (believe in the name of Jesus Christ) has been done in the sight of God. . . .
So wouldn't the choice be - to believe unto eternal life or to not believe and stand condemned?
No one can choose to believe in the name of God's only begotten Son?
(thank you, EG
- you know what for)
You do not need baggage you come as you are
The ticket is already paid
You just climb aboard
or you let the train drive on by
I am still waiting for someone to tell me how one can be so proud of that, or that they had faith alone in someone else because they became bankrupt and believed what God said about them and and what he was offering them.
I never got one.. And from one, now I never will.
I may be a weird person...but I always knew God was real from the time I was a child. I never questioned it. I told everyone I got saved when I was 5. My parents didn't even go to church at the time. My grandmother did, though. I cried and begged my parents to go to church every Sunday, and they had to take me to Sunday school. I memorized all of Psalms 23 to get a free Bible with my name on it. I started reading it at 5 (KJV) didn't understand all of it and I couldn't even read all of the words in it then, but I did get the message. Jesus died on the cross to save us, and all I or anyone else had to do was believe in him, give him my life, and trust in him. Did I actually get saved at 5, I don't know but probably not...but it did set a background for me.
When I became a teen...I wanted to go out and do it my own way. I still believed in Jesus so it sounds stupid that I would want to just go my own way (like the Prodigal son), but yeah, I knew what I was doing.... God had mercy on me though and called me and when he did I was belly up in the slop and darkness. I knew I could either take his hand and give my heart to him and let him save me, or I could keep on eating with the pigs. Sad thing is, I kept on eating with the pigs for a while and that was my choice not God's choice for my life. But He didn't make me come to him. He gave me the chance and it was up to me to accept it or not.
Now that was my experience with it, and like others mentioned we don't all have the same experience, but I do believe we all have a choice.
Seems to me wanting to know he was real was your first step, and then after he showed you he was real then you chose to come him. I know you don't see it that way so I really ain't trying to offend you here... just my thoughts on it.
When I became a teen...I wanted to go out and do it my own way. I still believed in Jesus so it sounds stupid that I would want to just go my own way (like the Prodigal son), but yeah, I knew what I was doing.... God had mercy on me though and called me and when he did I was belly up in the slop and darkness. I knew I could either take his hand and give my heart to him and let him save me, or I could keep on eating with the pigs. Sad thing is, I kept on eating with the pigs for a while and that was my choice not God's choice for my life. But He didn't make me come to him. He gave me the chance and it was up to me to accept it or not.
Now that was my experience with it, and like others mentioned we don't all have the same experience, but I do believe we all have a choice.
Seems to me wanting to know he was real was your first step, and then after he showed you he was real then you chose to come him. I know you don't see it that way so I really ain't trying to offend you here... just my thoughts on it.
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This is good old Calvinism, which is really Augustinianism. First of all its ignores THE FACT that God has given every human being a conscience, and many people do listen to their consciences. Secondly, it ignores the fact that the power of the Gospel and the convicting and convincing power of the Holy Spirit are there precisely to bring sinners to repentance and conversion despite their sinfulness.