SUFFERING AS YOUR ACT OF WORSHIP
- Thread starter sparkman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
Trusting God in the midst of pain and suffering may be the greatest expression of worship that we can accomplish here on earth
- C. Michael Patton, Now That I'm a Christian, p. 149
'Nough said...
I hope that sends the Word of Faithers scurrying, even the ones that pretend like they are not WOFers.
I have heard individuals who think they are authorities on Scripture telling medically depressed individuals they just need to "suck it up" and pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
Just by the guy's remarks, on a regular basis, you can tell he's promoting self-reliance rather than God-reliance.
It's amazing what passes for teachers on this website. If someone's voice has an air of authority, he is accepted as a teacher even though he's speaking out of his backside.
Beware, young believers and seekers. Fools can sound authoritative. I followed such an individual for a decade.
One of the most influential persons in my Christian walk was a lady named Reva who attended my congregation. She lost her son in an accident where he was decapitated, her toddler grandson choked to death while in her care, and she had cancer multiple times. Yet, never did she turn from God. I could tell sometimes she was sorely tested, though.
And, it disgusts me to hear Word of Faith "teachers" claim that if people have illnesses, and are not healed from them, it is their fault because they lack faith. Or, telling a young cerebral palsy victim that they are lacking in some way because they would be healed if they were not.
By the way, if I find out someone is a seeker or new believer, I educate them on the zany characters in the chat room, BY NAME. I encourage other sound believers to do the same.
- C. Michael Patton, Now That I'm a Christian, p. 149
'Nough said...
I hope that sends the Word of Faithers scurrying, even the ones that pretend like they are not WOFers.
I have heard individuals who think they are authorities on Scripture telling medically depressed individuals they just need to "suck it up" and pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
Just by the guy's remarks, on a regular basis, you can tell he's promoting self-reliance rather than God-reliance.
It's amazing what passes for teachers on this website. If someone's voice has an air of authority, he is accepted as a teacher even though he's speaking out of his backside.
Beware, young believers and seekers. Fools can sound authoritative. I followed such an individual for a decade.
One of the most influential persons in my Christian walk was a lady named Reva who attended my congregation. She lost her son in an accident where he was decapitated, her toddler grandson choked to death while in her care, and she had cancer multiple times. Yet, never did she turn from God. I could tell sometimes she was sorely tested, though.
And, it disgusts me to hear Word of Faith "teachers" claim that if people have illnesses, and are not healed from them, it is their fault because they lack faith. Or, telling a young cerebral palsy victim that they are lacking in some way because they would be healed if they were not.
By the way, if I find out someone is a seeker or new believer, I educate them on the zany characters in the chat room, BY NAME. I encourage other sound believers to do the same.
Im Pentecostal in upbringing,though I don't attend that church now. I am not WOF. But I do believe in healing and I believe it is Gods will to heal. Jesus never said no,He never sent anyone home sick. I understand the Bible doesn't promise sunshine and rainbows,but I also believe that He came to give us life more abundantly. Most people love to bring up Pauls thorn in the flesh. But he said it was given to him to keep him humble. When we start seeing so many souls saved and healed,revelations and visions that Paul experienced I'll agree that we just need to suffer it out with sickness. People like to quote the thorn in the flesh as if that is a reason for sickness when it is not. God is willing to heal.
S
some of it is balance, right?
thing is, people respond as though you were PROMOTING suffering or liked it
far better to examine what scripture actually states instead of posting a barrage of verses that you like because they promise something, while forgetting that with all of God's promises, we have our part to take care of
the op is concerning the portions of scripture that deal with suffering for Christ and there are plenty of those
I would hazard to guess that if someone wishes to ignore they are:
1. hoping it will pass them by but if God never tests you, are you a true son/daughter? anybody remember the verses dealing with true sons and daughters?
2. they like to pretend it never happened or it was all just the devil attacking them. for sure testing can be the devil attacking, so how do you deal with it? like Job or like Job's wife?
3. they believe if they commit to stating enough 'positive' scriptures they won't have to deal with it
I may bore people at this point, but LEARN FROM THE ENTIRE BIBLE. some people say the Bible contradicts itself, but they say that because they have not taken counsel of the ENTIRE book and only do topical study rather than systematic
yeah. it's work. got something better to do? eternity is one long time. literally
thing is, people respond as though you were PROMOTING suffering or liked it
far better to examine what scripture actually states instead of posting a barrage of verses that you like because they promise something, while forgetting that with all of God's promises, we have our part to take care of
the op is concerning the portions of scripture that deal with suffering for Christ and there are plenty of those
I would hazard to guess that if someone wishes to ignore they are:
1. hoping it will pass them by but if God never tests you, are you a true son/daughter? anybody remember the verses dealing with true sons and daughters?
2. they like to pretend it never happened or it was all just the devil attacking them. for sure testing can be the devil attacking, so how do you deal with it? like Job or like Job's wife?
3. they believe if they commit to stating enough 'positive' scriptures they won't have to deal with it
I may bore people at this point, but LEARN FROM THE ENTIRE BIBLE. some people say the Bible contradicts itself, but they say that because they have not taken counsel of the ENTIRE book and only do topical study rather than systematic
yeah. it's work. got something better to do? eternity is one long time. literally
S
the op is not saying anything about healing actually
the op is really about what scripture states about suffering
that is in the Bible, right?
suffering does not at all have to be physical.
we have so many threads on healing, be a shame if this is transformed into another one
dealing with a topic that apparently is uncomfortable for so many, does not mean the topic goes away
the op is really about what scripture states about suffering
that is in the Bible, right?
suffering does not at all have to be physical.
we have so many threads on healing, be a shame if this is transformed into another one
dealing with a topic that apparently is uncomfortable for so many, does not mean the topic goes away
K
Welllllll the OP mentions sickness several times so I took a shot in the dark that that is what he was talking about or part of it. Im familiar with suffering,but I dont believe God sends sickness on a person. Plenty here are familiar with suffering so I dont know who sees it as uncomfortable to talk about.
1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
Colossians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
1 Peter 2:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
Colossians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
1 Peter 2:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
S
we all are familiar with suffering
and the Bible tells us alot about it
my point is that there could be a good discussion reviewing what scripture states instead of everyone chasing their own tail...again...and giving their opinions
but who am I kidding? LOL!
it seems the uncomfortable comes along with acknowledging that it is a biblical doctrine
and who said ANYTHING about God SENDING sickness? is that your personal theory and you are worried someone believes God wants to whack us one? no one said that at all
no one at all but you did bring it up so I guess that is what you want to talk about
K
There is a fine line there. Jesus suffered for us,we need to make sure we're not teaching as the RC do.Yes,we are to take up our cross,there is suffering in life but we need to be careful what we are saying and teaching. My aunt died at the age of 43 of stomach cancer. My cousin was about 12 when his mother died.The good people of the church said "It was Gods will" and he is an atheist today raising a child with the same morals. Ive tried to tell him the difference and now he has shut me out and refuses to talk to me. So we need to be careful what we are saying. The Bible says He will not give us more than we can bear. We need to use caution in what we say when there is suffering and sickness.
I agree.
Suffering is always related to being attacked and persecuted for being a Christian and sickness is not a part of it. Sickness is an enemy and it is not a tool of God. If it was - Jesus spend the majority of His life fighting against His Father.
God can and does use all things that the enemy brings to destroy us to show us His faithfulness and love for us and He can make good in all the evil that is sent against us. God is not the author of sickness. One of the names of God is "The God who heals".
There is also a vast difference between suffering from being a Christian in this world and being rejected by others and being persecuted in it's many forms and suffering because of a sickness or disease that this corrupt world has brought, we have brought upon ourselves, or the devil has put on us.
These are 2 completely different kinds of sufferings or tribulations or pressures.
Actually the word in Romans 5:3 is "tribulations".
Romans 5:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Here is how the Greek word for "tribulations" which some translation use "sufferings" has been used by Jesus Himself.
Matthew 24:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Here Jesus use of the Greek word was translated "afflictions"
Matthew 13:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
Matthew 24:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Here is Luke using the same Greek word and it is translated as "persecution".
Acts 11:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So then those who were scattered because of the persecution that occurred in connection with Stephen made their way to Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except to Jews alone.
Here is Paul ( Luke still writing it ) using the same Greek word and it is translated as "afflictions".
Acts 20:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] except that the Holy Spirit solemnly testifies to me in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions await me.
Here Paul uses the word to show that we can comfort others with the same comfort God brings to us when they are in tribulation, afflictions, persecutions for the word of God and the gospel's sake.
2 Corinthians 1:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
Here is really good news for all of us - no matter what the world, the devil or by our own stupidity and circumstances are thrown at us in this world - it will never separate us from the love of God for us. Romans 8:35
So, as we can see - the word for "tribulations" or some translations have as "sufferings" have no connection to diseases at all.
We will have tribulation in this world and that is a part of the sharing of the sufferings/tribulations/persecutions of Christ in the flesh as Paul talks about it. Col. 1:24
There are brethren in other countries right now suffering in many ways because of Christ being in them.
Some lose their heads and these are standing before their loving Father full of life and complete and whole and one day they will have a redeemed natural body again just like the rest of us. Thank you Jesus!
K
The Bible gives reasons why some are not healed. But that doesn't speak to every situation. I believe faith is a part of it,but not necessarily for the one that is ill. When someone is very ill its very hard for them to have faith,I think sometimes the church and their family need to have faith for them. A lot of times people are told its Gods will,or the Bible doesn't promise healing,or healing isn't for today.I lot of times its us,we the church,I feel that discourage people in believing for healing. All I know is that Jesus never turned anyone away,He never said no,He never sent anyone home sick and I believe it is His will to heal.
I have always said that God can use anything the devil, the world or our own stupidity has brought about to show His love and grace to all of us.
Jesus' life on this earth is the manifestation of the will of God and the kingdom of God in action. We need to be looking at Jesus to see the Father's will for people - not our personal experiences.
I believe we are to bear each other's burdens in the place that we are at.
This verse below as I have said a few times even though it is discussing having faith for meats and drinks - the principle of it still remains. True faith in God remains the same.
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
How would I help to bear the burdens of others by applying the above verse?
This means - if someone believes God's word where it says that God is their Healer - then I will stand with them in that belief.
If someone has the faith that God will help them as they take their medicine - then I will stand with them in that.
If someone says that God has shown them that they make themselves sick by their own things and that they need to start walking in love and not in bitterness towards people - I would encourage them in the Lord to walk in this.
I would encourage people wherever they are at in their faith before God without insulting them and de-meaning them because of their faith that they do have before God.
Jesus' life on this earth is the manifestation of the will of God and the kingdom of God in action. We need to be looking at Jesus to see the Father's will for people - not our personal experiences.
I believe we are to bear each other's burdens in the place that we are at.
This verse below as I have said a few times even though it is discussing having faith for meats and drinks - the principle of it still remains. True faith in God remains the same.
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
How would I help to bear the burdens of others by applying the above verse?
This means - if someone believes God's word where it says that God is their Healer - then I will stand with them in that belief.
If someone has the faith that God will help them as they take their medicine - then I will stand with them in that.
If someone says that God has shown them that they make themselves sick by their own things and that they need to start walking in love and not in bitterness towards people - I would encourage them in the Lord to walk in this.
I would encourage people wherever they are at in their faith before God without insulting them and de-meaning them because of their faith that they do have before God.