Teach Against God's Commandments and Still Be Saved

[Grandpa]

So I guess according to your understanding JESUS only kept Gods/His Fathers CARNAL commandment re the sabbath and discard it after His death ? what happened to Him being 'the same yesterday, today and forever ? and the scriptures pointing to a future sabbath ? It's ok to cut the tree of life from it's roots or the branches from the tree and STILL produce holy fruit ?
Which Jesus are you talking about...the one who starts from the foundation as we also should, or the one who teaches you nothing but rest and idleness ? Jesus warns of false Christs who deceive.
Scripture says 'first comes the physical THEN the spiritual. DON'T reject your simple beginning, it's your foundation in God.

Your questions are all nonsensical based in judaizer fiction. They start from a wrong premise.

If you look closely at the New Testament you will see that the Lord Jesus didn't follow a carnal keeping of a Sabbath. The Jews didn't like that, of course.

John 5:16-18
[FONT=&quot]16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


The Lord Jesus kept the real law in Spirit and Truth. He wasn't worried about the carnal understanding of the carnal commandment.

That is our simple beginning. The release from the carnal understanding and carnal following of Gods Perfect Law by coming to the Lord Jesus to receive Real Rest.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.



[/FONT]

 

[Rockrz]

This, obviously, is not an endorsement to teach against God's holiness and righteous standards

Many today say "God's holiness and righteous standards" IS legalism and we do not have to observe anything all all really other than believe Jesus exists.

This is obvious when we see how many claiming to be Christians embrace all sorts of sin and the love of this world.

God knows people's hearts and Jesus will judge according to His Word... otherwise He will be found to be a liar which ain't happening.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I am puzzled as to how people seem convinced we should/must keep God's Commandments yet they definitely 'kick out the Sabbath' under all kinds of excuses...even though JESUS kept it all His life.
Why is that so ?
They don't want to remember it - they don't want to keep it holy.
Please don't go listing all the reasons why you believe it's not for Christians - there is no such biblical statement ! It was made for MAN.

'The 10 are ONE whole law' given by God personally and nothing else/other law added onto them Deut 5v22. They are spiritual and eternal Rom 7.and we are told that to break 'one' is to break all...so why do Christians do it ?
The reason I'm picking out the sabbath is because it is the only commandment blatantly rejected, hated and preached against in direct opposition to scripture.

I don't know who you have been talking to, but Christians are not under the Law. That includes the Sabbath as a day of the week commandment.

 

[beta]

Your questions are all nonsensical based in judaizer fiction.....

Yes I thought that might be your answer 1Cor 2v14.
You call those who WALK with Christ 'judaizers - but not those who REST in Him ?
That is the kind of 'back to front' approach expected from a natural man !

 

[beta]

I don't know who you have been talking to, but Christians are not under the Law. That includes the Sabbath as a day of the week commandment.

I agree with you...we are not under the 'law of Moses'....but we are called to 'follow Christ'.

When was it NOT His custom to keep the sabbath ?

 

[followjesus]

I agree with you...we are not under the 'law of Moses'....but we are called to 'follow Christ'.

When was it NOT His custom to keep the sabbath ?

I agree with you...we are not under the 'law of Moses'....but we are called to 'follow Christ'.<<< spot on

 

[beta]

I agree with you...we are not under the 'law of Moses'....but we are called to 'follow Christ'.<<< spot on

What some people are sadly doing is to take commandments GOD personally gave and to which HE PERSONALLY added no more when speaking to the assembly Ex 20; Deut 5v22 'thus making them His Own 'spiritual and eternal, separate from those He gave through Moses which were temporary works contained in ordinances...but people take even these 10 away from God and give/ascribe them to Moses.
They are 'stripping GOD of any authority or say in our lives - shame on them ! And after treating Him with such disrespect they want to spend eternity with Him ? it's not going to happen until/unless they turn and repent.
They are in for a rude awakening when Christ returns for they will feel the point of His very sharp sword !

 

[Grace777x70]

The 10 commandments are just a much a part of the L of Moses as is the stoning of our children that dis-obey us.

Paul who knew the Law of Moses better than anyone told us that "coveting" is in the Law. Unless it got kicked out of the 10 commandments because it was caught "coveting".

Romans 7:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

Christians have nothing to do with the carnal keeping of the Law of Moses. It has done it's job in bringing us to Christ. Now we have died to the Law, been released from the Law and not under the Law. Romans 7:1-7

We live now by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of liberty, the law of faith ( the Law is not of faith ), the law of Christ Himself in us.

His life and love in us will fulfill all the intent of the law. Christ is our true Sabbath rest of which the carnal keeping of the Sabbath as outlined in the law of Moses is but a mere shadow of the real thing. Christ Himself.

 

[Ariel82]

I am puzzled as to how people seem convinced we should/must keep God's Commandments yet they definitely 'kick out the Sabbath' under all kinds of excuses...even though JESUS kept it all His life.
Why is that so ?
They don't want to remember it - they don't want to keep it holy.
Please don't go listing all the reasons why you believe it's not for Christians - there is no such biblical statement ! It was made for MAN.

'The 10 are ONE whole law' given by God personally and nothing else/other law added onto them Deut 5v22. They are spiritual and eternal Rom 7.and we are told that to break 'one' is to break all...so why do Christians do it ?
The reason I'm picking out the sabbath is because it is the only commandment blatantly rejected, hated and preached against in direct opposition to scripture.

Because we find out Sabbath rest in Christ and personally I prefer daily rest to just once a week. Also as someone said lots of folks are legalistic about it and make chains to bind people instead of setting them free.

 

[Ariel82]

What some people are sadly doing is to take commandments GOD personally gave and to which HE PERSONALLY added no more when speaking to the assembly Ex 20; Deut 5v22 'thus making them His Own 'spiritual and eternal, separate from those He gave through Moses which were temporary works contained in ordinances...but people take even these 10 away from God and give/ascribe them to Moses.
They are 'stripping GOD of any authority or say in our lives - shame on them ! And after treating Him with such disrespect they want to spend eternity with Him ? it's not going to happen until/unless they turn and repent.
They are in for a rude awakening when Christ returns for they will feel the point of His very sharp sword !

The ten commandments were nailed to the cross too, but most Sabbath keepers don't understand that saying.

It's not stripping God of His authority. It's acknowledging His mercy and grace.

 

[Ariel82]

Just to show paul supporting this

Romans 13:8-10 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other COMMANDMENT it is BREIFLY COMPREHENDED in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

The commandments were written By Gods finger, the commandments alone have no condemnation in them they are a moral Guide and arent against us, if we are Loving others truly, it will keep the commandments.

Love does fulfill the law but the ten commandments written in stone were still nailed to the cross and counted as part of the "Mosaic law"

 

[Ariel82]

Same here Grandpa....I quite like what you are saying...it's just a matter of looking at it from the right angle....except
even the law of Christ is LAW based on the 10 Commandments of His Father and is expected from us = love God and neighbour. This is not something a person does naturally AS IF we did not have to work at it....so (as I see it) we have to make SOME effort at it...it does not come naturally for a person to love their enemy and we never would if it was not for God/Jesus TELLING/commanding us to in the first place....in my case anyway. 'I need a strong hand' to guide me , so I welcome 'Law & Love' in my life. Maybe you don't have a stubborn streak in you and respond to God quicker ?!?

Like traffic laws, God's laws help us from crashing into other people or our surroundings.

Keeping God's laws are a good idea. However, many people cross the line and become legalistic or add their own man-made laws and beliefs about God's laws as a requirement to keep salvation. That is a false gospel message,

 

[Ariel82]

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

If your foundation is Christ you shall be saved through the fire even if your works burn up like hay or stubble.

1 Corinthians 3
11For no one can lay a foundation other than...Jesus Christ
14If the work that anyone has built ..survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[Ariel82]

John 13.34-35
[SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. [SUP]35 [/SUP]By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

God has always commanded love. The only difference is do we have a Jesus,type love?

Do we love our enemies?

Do we truly bless those who curse us?

Or do will love only as the world loves?

Do we only "like" folks who agree and love us first?

Do we expect others to treat us better than we treat them?

Do we curse others with our words by gossiping, back biting, bickering, take bearing?

The Bible says that you might be able to find men willing to die for a righteous man, but who would die for a sinner?

Can you love as Jesus loves?

 

[Ariel82]

What's the difference between a Spiritual Law and a Carnal Commandment???

See Matthew 5 for perspective.

Matthew 5:21 [FONT=&quot]Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

[/FONT]That's a carnal commandment. Don't kill. People can follow that by their own strength and their own understanding, carnally.

Matthew 5:22 [FONT=&quot]But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

[/FONT]That is a Spiritual concept, the fulfillment of this is by Gods Spiritual Law, namely Love.


So you can see that to follow a carnal commandment you can do by your own strength and understanding.

To follow a Spiritual Law you are going to need the Power of Christ to fulfill.


Paul explained it a little differently. He said the letter is unto death but the Spirit is unto Life.


Now we can look at the Sabbath in this same light.

To observe a saturday sabbath is following a carnal commandment. You can fulfill it by your own strength and understanding.

To Rest in Christ is following a Spiritual Law. In fact, it is THE Spiritual Law. You can't fulfill it by your own strength and understanding.

John 15:5 [FONT=&quot]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[/FONT]Meaning you can't produce spiritual fruit in your life by following a carnal commandment. You can only produce spiritual fruit in your life by resting in Christ.

Amen. Was starting to wonder if anyone really understood the Sabbath in Christ concept.

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with you...we are not under the 'law of Moses'....but we are called to 'follow Christ'.

When was it NOT His custom to keep the sabbath ?

He also was nailed to the cross. How do we follow Him in that manner?

Sabbath is about finding time to pray and focus on worshipping and giving thanks to God. Without worrying about work or the world. It is a time to stand in His Holy presence and be refreshed and loved. Trusting in His providence and His will for our lives and His world.

Why do people want to make it more legalistic?

 

[Ariel82]

So I guess according to your understanding JESUS only kept Gods/His Fathers CARNAL commandment re the sabbath and discard it after His death ? what happened to Him being 'the same yesterday, today and forever ? and the scriptures pointing to a future sabbath ? It's ok to cut the tree of life from it's roots or the branches from the tree and STILL produce holy fruit ?
Which Jesus are you talking about...the one who starts from the foundation as we also should, or the one who teaches you nothing but rest and idleness ? Jesus warns of false Christs who deceive.
Scripture says 'first comes the physical THEN the spiritual. DON'T reject your simple beginning, it's your foundation in God.

Rest is not idle and this statement shows you don't really understand God's spiritual laws at all.

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with you...we are not under the 'law of Moses'....but we are called to 'follow Christ'.

When was it NOT His custom to keep the sabbath ?

It was also Jesus custom to heal the sick, cast out demons, pray alone in mountain tops, walk on water, cause fish to be taken in nets, preach to the masses, be a carpenter and many more things. For example, paying Temple taxes even though He said that since He was God's son it wasn't required.

God commands us to be LIKE Jesus. It is not the same as trying to BE Jesus.

Insisting that people keep a weekly Sabbath and condemning them if they don't agree or keep it is legalistic.

If someone wants to keep it that's fine. I view it in the category of if you want to eat meat or not. Long as people do it for God's glory and not disdain or judge others for not doing as they have chosen to do.

 

[beta]

He also was nailed to the cross. How do we follow Him in that manner?

Sabbath is about finding time to pray and focus on worshipping and giving thanks to God. Without worrying about work or the world. It is a time to stand in His Holy presence and be refreshed and loved. Trusting in His providence and His will for our lives and His world.

Why do people want to make it more legalistic?

So please do tell what you perceive ME to be doing and teaching others to do on the sabbath ? I'd like to know what I am being accused/condemned for !

 

[Grace777x70]

So please do tell what you perceive ME to be doing and teaching others to do on the sabbath ? I'd like to know what I am being accused/condemned for !

I will ask a question.

If a Christian does not observe the Sabbath Day as outlined in the law of Moses. - are they dis-obeying God and sinning?

In other words the setting aside of a certain day ( most likely Friday from sunset to Saturday) where we do or don't do certain things during that time.