The “sin lists” in the NT condemn all habitual sinners!

[UnderGrace]

The topic was battling sin.

Galatians 6: 4-5 is speaking to carrying our work/burden/responsibilities as a believer to others and God.

I could never regard this as carrying a cross and I do not believe that scripture supports that.

Paul is affectionately exhorting here, but where does he finish in this letter....

Galatians 6:14

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [SUP]15[/SUP] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. [SUP]16[/SUP] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Amen

Wouldn't that be nice...

Galatians 6:2,5 KJVS
[2] Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

But I guess there is nothing to bear since Christ bore it all?



This 'looking unto Jesus' is a call to bear our cross with joy as well...

Hebrews 12:2-4 KJVS
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. [3] For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. [4] Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

 

[crossnote]

The topic was battling sin.

Galatians 6: 4-5 is speaking to carrying our work/burden/responsibilities as a believer to others and God.

I could never regard this as carrying a cross and I do not believe that scripture supports that.

Paul is affectionately exhorting here, but where does he finish in this letter....

Galatians 6:14

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [SUP]15[/SUP] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. [SUP]16[/SUP] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Amen

Ok, what about the 2nd part of my post which speaks closer to the battle...

This 'looking unto Jesus' is a call to bear our cross with joy as well...

Hebrews 12:2-4 KJVS
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. [3] For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. [4] Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Or this...

Philippians 2:5,8 KJVS
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Sounds like cross bearing to me in both cases.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Has a believer been freed from their sin?
Does the believer still struggle with sin?
Does the believer occasionally lapse back into sin?
Is this what you're asking me?

I think you know what I was asking.

 

[crossnote]

I think you know what I was asking.

Right. You were asking me to step on a landmine LOL

 

[FreeNChrist]

Right. You were asking me to step on a landmine LOL

So you see the flaw in your reasoning?

 

[crossnote]

So you see the flaw in your reasoning?

No, I saw the pharisaical trap you were laying.

 

[FreeNChrist]

No, I saw the pharisaical trap you were laying.

How about anger? Or lust? Or pride? Or any other "habitual sin" you can list? How do those disqualify a person from being a Christian?

 

[crossnote]

How about anger? Or lust? Or pride? Or any other "habitual sin" you can list? How do those disqualify a person from being a Christian?

First answer my questions in post 40. After all, you jumped in on my response to Zachary, and I have given you answers to your barrage of questions, you could show some decency and start answering mine.

Has a believer been freed from their sin?
Does the believer still struggle with sin?
Does the believer occasionally lapse back into sin?
Is this what you're asking me?

 

[FreeNChrist]

First answer my questions in post 40. After all, you jumped in on my response to Zachary, and I have given you answers to your barrage of questions, you could show some decency and start answering mine.

...........

 

[working4christ2]

Throughout the Bible, God views sin as indicative of rebellion, disobedience, and unbelief.
Those born-again have been given a new nature by which they are no longer slaves of sin!
And they have been given the Holy Spirit, who has come to help them overcome their sins!
Compared to the OT, God’s born-again people have NO excuse for failure to be overcomers!

PLEASE accept my comments as a platform for discussion, NOT accusations

My friend in Christ, I'm a Catholic and hold differing views on salvation.

I would ask you what is the grounds for your above position? Here's why.

There is but One True God

Even GOD can only hold {accept} One set of Faith believes

In the entire bible, there is not a single example of GOD, even one time accepting, tolerating, permitting, condoning, or in ANY positive manner, being "OK" with ANY faith beliefs other than those expressly taught by Him or those HE choose to lead and teach His beliefs.

Yet the 16th Century Protestant reformation {revolution really}, does in many ways exactly that. So how then can "you" {meaning non-Catholics" be so assurred that the Holy Spirit is directing and protecting your religious positions?

Now retired Pope Benedict XVI had this to say about TRUTH:

"There cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be NO truth." ... which is logical. moral and indisputable IMO.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10, TLB

“But, instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong, cheating others, even your own brothers. Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals — will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.”
• No habitual sinner will have any part in the Kingdom of God.

On this we are in full agreement!

Galatians 5:18-24, TLB

“When you are guided by the Holy Spirit, you need no longer force yourself to obey Jewish laws. But when you follow your own wrong inclinations, your lives will produce these evil results: impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism, hatred and fighting, jealousy and anger, constant effort to get the best for yourself … and there will be wrong doctrine, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild parties, and all that sort of thing. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. … Those who belong to Christ have nailed their natural evil desires to his cross and crucified them there.”
• No one who lives/walks in the flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Not one of my favorite translations; BUT i certainly agree with its sediments.

Gal[FONT=arial, times new roman, georgia, trebuchet ms, verdana, helvetica] l. 5:18-24 The DOUAY Catholic Bible: [/FONT][18] But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, [20] Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, [21] Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, ponganimity, [23] Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ' s, have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences."

Ephesians 5:3-7, TLB

“Let there be no sex sin, impurity or greed among you. Let no one be able to accuse you of any such things. Dirty stories, foul talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, remind each other of God’s goodness, and be thankful. You can be sure of this: the Kingdom of Christ and of God will never belong to anyone who is impure or greedy, for a greedy person is really an idol worshiper — he loves and worships the good things of this life more than God. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them. Don’t even associate with such people.”
• No Kingdom of God for them, and are those receiving God’s wrath going to heaven?

Again we agree

QUESTION:
If one should commit one or more of these sins; HOW or can?, they be forgiven ?

Matt. 12: 30 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

Isaiah 43: 7 & 21 “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him. & This people have I formed for myself, [Genesis 1: 26-27] they shall shew forth my praise.”

Matthew 5:13-16
“You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.”

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Heb.5 Verses 1 to 6 “For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is bound to offer sacrifice for his own sins as well as for those of the people. And one does not take the honor upon himself, but he is called by God, just as Aaron was.”

John.15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.”

Colossians 3:5-8, TLB

“Away then with sinful, earthly things; deaden the evil desires lurking within you; have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires; don’t worship the good things of life, for that is idolatry. God’s terrible anger is upon those who do such things. You used to do them when your life was still part of this world; but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.”
3:6, NKJV – “Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”
• Will anyone who receives God’s terrible anger and wrath be going to heaven?

YES! That dear friend is precisely why Jesus instituted His Catholic Church and the Seven Sacraments, included the Sacrament of Confession: the Sacrament of KNOWN forgiveness of our sins --- GOD"S WAY. Amen!

Revelation 21:7-8, TLB

“Everyone who conquers (is victorious, overcomes) will inherit all these blessings, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But cowards who turn back from following me, and those who are unfaithful to me, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those conversing with demons, and idol worshipers and all liars — their doom is in the Lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This is the Second Death.”
• 8 examples of habitual sinners who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Question:

Even if they correctly seek His forgiveness?

God Bless you!
Patrick
working4cjrist2

Revelation 22:14-15, TLB
“Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter in through the gates of the city (the New Jerusalem) and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life. Outside the city are those who have strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so.”
22:14-15, NKJV – “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
• 6 examples of habitual sinners who will not be allowed to enter the city of the New Jerusalem.[/QUOTE]

 

[oldethennew]

1COR. 6:9-10-11.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived:
neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified
in The Name of The Lord Jesus, and by The Spirit of our God.

this is a very clear WARNING that is speaking (((TO BELIEVERS THAT HAVE BEEN SACNTICIED, JUSTIFIED))), -
this WARNING is telling us that we cannot practice INIQUITY and EXPECT TO INHERIT
THE KINGDOM OF GOD , THAT IS, ETERNAL LIFE...

 

[ZacharyB]

If one is habitually sinning,
most likely he is a 'believer' who professes Christ and not possess Him,
so I wouldn't call that person a believer in the first place.

Many in the churches have had the Holy Spirit come and indwell them.
But, if they (with their free-will) choose to sin habitually,
IMO, they are no longer living/walking "in Christ".
Many in the North American churches are in this condition,
and the Holy Spirit is trying to get them to repent,
which will re-instate them back into being "in Christ".

 

[ZacharyB]

Patrick, my friend ...

All I can say to you (which is a promise) is ...
spiritual wisdom says that we should be trusting in only 2 things:
1) the Holy Scriptures
2) being led by the Holy Spirit

The NT warns us to avoid:
1) "the doctrines of men", which are anything that is not stated in Scripture.
2) spiritual revelations that do not line up (agree) with the Holy Scriptures.

 

[crossnote]

Many in the churches have had the Holy Spirit come and indwell them.
But, if they (with their free-will) choose to sin habitually,
IMO, they are no longer living/walking "in Christ".
Many in the North American churches are in this condition,
and the Holy Spirit is trying to get them to repent,
which will re-instate them back into being "in Christ".

It is doubtful that a born again Christian (one who's nature now desires what God desires) would choose to sin 'habitually'.
If they start giving in to sin, God has a way of disciplining them unto repentance (making life miserable until they do) or just taking them home 'early'.
As a born again Christian we are in Christ and Christ is in us from the start. I do not believe a regenerate christian can be unborn.
We can't confuse those who merely claim Christ with those who truly possess Him.

 

[ZacharyB]

It is doubtful that a born again Christian (one who's nature now desires what God desires) would choose to sin 'habitually'.
If they start giving in to sin, God has a way of disciplining them unto repentance (making life miserable until they do) or just taking them home 'early'.
As a born again Christian we are in Christ and Christ is in us from the start. I do not believe a regenerate christian can be unborn.
We can't confuse those who merely claim Christ with those who truly possess Him.

Yes, IMO, this is spiritual wisdom (but may not be 100% truth).
So, therefore, we must indeed believe that MANY in our NA churches have NOT been born-again.
Perhaps some of these MANY are here ... and will endeavor to become so (if that is possible)!
I'm thinking that my next thread may be one which lists the several NT verses which teach:
God must provide a seed of belief to enable a person to believe in Jesus and His gospel.

 

[justthefacts]

I have not read all the posts here on this subject, but it has been my experience that when people [good intention] try to correspond about this, it always becomes corrupted.
Rom 3:23 - For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God [heavenly Father].
All means all which includes the holy angels, for only God is without sin and He will share His glory with no one. Isa 42:8
Everything else needs an atonement, for regardless of what you may think of yourself or others, there is nothing in creation that is without spot or blemish aside from the Savior who is Emmanuel [God with us]. Mat 1:23
So, who among you is without sin, let them cast the first stone. John 8:7
The scriptures speak plainly on the issue of a sinful or habitual nature and need no interpretations.
Be careful how you walk here or who you may accuse.

God Bless

JTF

 

[Depleted]

Throughout the Bible, God views sin as indicative of rebellion, disobedience, and unbelief.
Those born-again have been given a new nature by which they are no longer slaves of sin!
And they have been given the Holy Spirit, who has come to help them overcome their sins!
Compared to the OT, God’s born-again people have NO excuse for failure to be overcomers!

1 Corinthians 6:8-10, TLB
“But, instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong, cheating others, even your own brothers. Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals — will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.”
• No habitual sinner will have any part in the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:18-24, TLB
“When you are guided by the Holy Spirit, you need no longer force yourself to obey Jewish laws. But when you follow your own wrong inclinations, your lives will produce these evil results: impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, spiritism, hatred and fighting, jealousy and anger, constant effort to get the best for yourself … and there will be wrong doctrine, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild parties, and all that sort of thing. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. … Those who belong to Christ have nailed their natural evil desires to his cross and crucified them there.”
• No one who lives/walks in the flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-7, TLB
“Let there be no sex sin, impurity or greed among you. Let no one be able to accuse you of any such things. Dirty stories, foul talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, remind each other of God’s goodness, and be thankful. You can be sure of this: the Kingdom of Christ and of God will never belong to anyone who is impure or greedy, for a greedy person is really an idol worshiper — he loves and worships the good things of this life more than God. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the terrible wrath of God is upon all those who do them. Don’t even associate with such people.”
• No Kingdom of God for them, and are those receiving God’s wrath going to heaven?

Colossians 3:5-8, TLB
“Away then with sinful, earthly things; deaden the evil desires lurking within you; have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires; don’t worship the good things of life, for that is idolatry. God’s terrible anger is upon those who do such things. You used to do them when your life was still part of this world; but now is the time to cast off and throw away all these rotten garments of anger, hatred, cursing, and dirty language.”
3:6, NKJV – “Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”
• Will anyone who receives God’s terrible anger and wrath be going to heaven?

Revelation 21:7-8, TLB
“Everyone who conquers (is victorious, overcomes) will inherit all these blessings, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But cowards who turn back from following me, and those who are unfaithful to me, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those conversing with demons, and idol worshipers and all liars — their doom is in the Lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This is the Second Death.”
• 8 examples of habitual sinners who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 22:14-15, TLB
“Blessed forever are all who are washing their robes, to have the right to enter in through the gates of the city (the New Jerusalem) and to eat the fruit from the Tree of Life. Outside the city are those who have strayed away from God, and the sorcerers and the immoral and murderers and idolaters, and all who love to lie, and do so.”
22:14-15, NKJV – “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
• 6 examples of habitual sinners who will not be allowed to enter the city of the New Jerusalem.

I see sinners. I see no proof of the adjective "habitual" though. If habitual has to be there than only serial killers are on the outst? It's okey dokey to kill once or twice?

 

[Utah]

Last night I went out for a beer and a guy in the establishment was being antagonist to others. I thought about shutting him up manually but things would have gotten real ugly and I'm not too fond of being arrested. Ultimately the guy left without provocation.

So I guess I'm still saved because I didn't put him in a coma. Does that sound about right? Personally I'd rather give Jesus His due regarding my salvation rather than thump my own chest. That's where I stand.

 

[ZacharyB]

I see sinners. I see no proof of the adjective "habitual" though. If habitual has to be there than only serial killers are on the outst? It's okey dokey to kill once or twice?

IMO, these warning verses are not talking about sinning once (for example).
And these warning verses are not talking about sinning and then sincerely repenting.
So, what do we have left?

 

[Willie-T]

It means many go on their 'merry way' oblivious to the fact that there is a spiritual battle going on where ALL our weapons are needed, not just a simple formula or two. Such as...

So, you know people that have done this? You saw people doing this or are you just surmising they are doing this?

Why do you pick this "formula" thing out when every time someone confesses the realities of what Christ has done? They are believing that they are new creations and walking in that knowledge with the light that they have at the time. Part of this confessing ( which means to agree with in Greek ) is standing in the armor of God.

I have to admit that I sit in amazement over the overwhelming desire to do all sorts of evil that must constantly run through some of the minds here for them to imagine all the vile things they accuse everyone else of doing every day.