The Adamic Sin Nature

[slave]

Adamic sin nature

The initial problem still exists, their original sin nature is still there. The fact is God will not allow anyone to do anything within themselves to free themselves of the Adamic sin nature because to do so would annul the crucifixion of Christ on the cross.

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But alas, In Christ, we are dead to that endless defeat. The "Problem" does not exist, only the flesh still exists, which God will empower us to put to death thru sanctification while living in Christ. We now, thru Christ, are made pure set aside from any of our works and the law. And because we are empowered by God to do His will in relationship to His Son and Himself, we can and will put to death the things of the flesh, even as sinful nature remains in that which we no longer live by - our flesh. As Christ remains within us we become slaves to righteousness by His Lordship, and the gift of life becomes real and practical and fruit-bearing..We in turn become holy consecrated lives to the Lord, as He does His workmanship in us.

When God gets us alone through suffering, heartbreak, temptation, disappointment, sickness, or by thwarted desires, a broken friendship, or a new friendship, then He begins to teach us, and grow us up in Him. Our bodies can be lived by sacrificing it to God therefore in a consecrated sanctified life to our Lord, and our bodies (Not flesh) can be holy despite its eventual death sentence as well, making our lives in Christ - real.

"But I say walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident......I warn you, as I warned you before , that those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control: against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (Galatians 5:16-26).

We must be born again, and keep in step with the Spirit.

 

[jimd]

there would be no need for Satan to appeal to us in the first place if we have this sin nature that will make us sin anyway.

James says nothing on us sinning because we have a built in sin nature, he says we sin when we are tempted like i been saying all along.

The sin nature does not make us sin, it leads us into temptation (temptation is not a sin, Jesus was tempted) then we make a choice to sin or not to sin.

 

[Chester]

Born again Christians have a sinful nature still

Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live.
Romans 8:12*-‬13 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/rom.8.12-13.NLT

Ah, if you want to prove a point you had better check your text a bit closer.

Romans 8:12,13 says that we are debtors to the flesh, to not live after the flesh. The Greek word the NLT translates as "sinful nature" is the Greek word "sarks". Sarks is the flesh, not the sinful nature. Look at the wording of the good old fashioned KJV. (I am not a "KJV only" person by any means at all, by the way! LOL! - just look at some of my current posts on the KJV thread )

I stick with my premise: the believer no longer has the sinful nature, but the believer still has the flesh. Show me a text that says the believer has the sinful nature and I will think about changing my mind.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

in other words it makes me a man that base my thoughts on what the bible actually says rather than roman politics? i wouldnt have it any other way.

Pelagian did not base his thoughts about the sin nature on the Bible and was rightly a heretic for it. Do you want to align your thoughts with a heretic of Christianity and "have it no other way"?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Ah, if you want to prove a point you had better check your text a bit closer.

Romans 8:12,13 says that we are debtors to the flesh, to not live after the flesh. The Greek word the NLT translates as "sinful nature" is the Greek word "sarks". Sarks is the flesh, not the sinful nature. Look at the wording of the good old fashioned KJV. (I am not a "KJV only" person by any means at all, by the way! LOL! - just look at some of my current posts on the KJV thread )

I stick with my premise: the believer no longer has the sinful nature, but the believer still has the flesh. Show me a text that says the believer has the sinful nature and I will think about changing my mind.

It depends on the context. In this context "flesh" means our sinful nature.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Adamic sin nature

The sin nature was adequately dealt with at the cross and the cross is the only way to a new life in Christ.
The one inescapable fact is that no human can escape the burden and the results of the Adamic nature and no human can get free of the sin nature without being born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again" to see or to enter the things of God.

Without communion with God through repentance, faith, and cleansing, there
is no hope for anyone.

I would add among those who have grown up in the church, it is hard for them
to identify the sin within, and admit love and Christ within, because the language
and emotions have been with them their whole lives. For some they live like
the world yet dress it up like belief, and never actually become sinners who then
repent. I have seen some young people walk away from the church and find who
they are, and then come back understanding what God means, rather than continue
the pretense of faith, when it is just a culture.

 

[Chester]

It depends on the context. In this context "flesh" means our sinful nature.

If you are going to argue that context changes the meaning of sarks (flesh) to "sinful nature" then you may do that.

I prefer to think that if Paul had meant "sinful (old man) nature" who would have used the Greek words for that. He had that vocabulary available, and uses it in other places. But he chose to use "sarks".

I think we need to be careful about using context to change the meaning of a Greek word. I believe the doctrine of inspiration includes the writer's choice of words.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

If you are going to argue that context changes the meaning of sarks (flesh) to "sinful nature" then you may do that.

I prefer to think that if Paul had meant "sinful (old man) nature" who would have used the Greek words for that. He had that vocabulary available, and uses it in other places. But he chose to use "sarks".

I think we need to be careful about using context to change the meaning of a Greek word. I believe the doctrine of inspiration includes the writer's choice of words.

You need a course in hermeneutics. The context determines the meaning of a word. Paul is not talking about mutilating your physical body, that is why it is translated as a sinful nature.

 

[Chester]

You need a course in hermeneutics. The context determines the meaning of a word. Paul is not talking about mutilating your physical body, that is why it is translated as a sinful nature.

I think in turn that you need a course in inspiration of Scripture. Every word was inspired. And context does not change the meaning of one word into the meaning of another word.

LOL! You may have your interpretation if you like, and I am not upset with you at all -- I came to my conclusions about "old man/old nature" being different from the flesh "sarks" from a careful study of the use of those words and how Paul uses them.

 

[slave]

The sin nature does not make us sin, it leads us into temptation (temptation is not a sin, Jesus was tempted) then we make a choice to sin or not to sin.

This is incorrect Biblically. Temptation comes from the devil, which is Sin. Unless we have the Spirit in control of our life it will cause us to sin based on the fall of man in Adam. If we live by the Spirit, however, the fall of man is replaced with the redemptive life in Christ. Sin can still come by and try to tempt us, but it has lost its power to succeed if we remain and stand on Christ's authority in our life. This is not sinful nature at that point tempting us it is the devil thru our flesh.

(Ephesians 2:3):

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

(Romans 13:14):

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

(Galatians 6:12-13):

Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.

(Galatians 5:17):

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

(Romans 8:5-9):

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I think in turn that you need a course in inspiration of Scripture. Every word was inspired. And context does not change the meaning of one word into the meaning of another word.

LOL! You may have your interpretation if you like, and I am not upset with you at all -- I came to my conclusions about "old man/old nature" being different from the flesh "sarks" from a careful study of the use of those words and how Paul uses them.

Context has everything to do with changing the meaning of a word.

I love my wife.
I love my pizza.

Two different contexts, two different meanings of the same word.

 

[jimd]

This is incorrect Biblically. Temptation comes from the devil, which is Sin. Unless we have the Spirit in control of our life it will cause us to sin based on the fall of man in Adam. If we live by the Spirit, however, the fall of man is replaced with the redemptive life in Christ. Sin can still come by and try to tempt us, but it has lost its power to succeed if we remain and stand on Christ's authority in our life. This is not sinful nature at that point tempting us it is the devil thru our flesh.

(Ephesians 2:3):

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

(Romans 13:14):

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

(Galatians 6:12-13):

Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.

(Galatians 5:17):

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

(Romans 8:5-9):

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Regardless, until you actually sin there is no sin as far as you are concerned and then you own it, meaning you cannot blame the devil or a sin nature. Whether you seek forgiveness or not is up to you.

 

[jaybird88]

The sin nature does not make us sin, it leads us into temptation (temptation is not a sin, Jesus was tempted) then we make a choice to sin or not to sin.

it does in fact make you sin. if you do not want to be lead into temptation, but have no choice because your nature leads you to it 100% of the time that you exist, you will eventually sin, its a very unfair advantage.
and if thats not bad enough, we are held accountable for these sins that that we are pre designed to commit anyway. the Father that Jesus teaches about is just, original sin sounds very unjust.

 

[jaybird88]

Pelagian did not base his thoughts about the sin nature on the Bible and was rightly a heretic for it. Do you want to align your thoughts with a heretic of Christianity and "have it no other way"?

the roman councils called him a heretic, is that bad? these are the same councils that gave us crusades, inquisitions, burning everyone alive, destroying entire towns full of women and children?
if you want to put your faith in those councils be my guest. i will stick to the scriptures.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

the roman councils called him a heretic, is that bad? these are the same councils that gave us crusades, inquisitions, burning everyone alive, destroying entire towns full of women and children?
if you want to put your faith in those councils be my guest. i will stick to the scriptures.

The crusades and inquisitions didn't occur for over one thousands years after Pelagius lived. They have nothing to do with the fact that he was rightly condemned as a heretic.

 

[jaybird88]

The crusades and inquisitions didn't occur for over one thousands years after Pelagius lived. They have nothing to do with the fact that he was rightly condemned as a heretic.

rightly condemned by councils that destroyed anything and everyone that got in the way of their political agendas. i dont need a corrupt council to lead me, i would rather be lead by the spirit.

 

[slave]

Regardless, until you actually sin there is no sin as far as you are concerned and then you own it, meaning you cannot blame the devil or a sin nature. Whether you seek forgiveness or not is up to you.

What are you talking about? Are you correcting me? Based on what I wrote? Be specific, it seems you never even read my post. You are right that sinful nature is not us sinning yet, just as Eve was deceived and did not sin, but Adam did sin because he was aware of it as sin and did it. Sinful nature is slavery in the area of Sin's influence, thus, we do sin in time because of it, if we are under its control, regardless of our will to stop doing it, unless we have Christ's victory found in us, as Christ Himself is who our life as Christians become; yet He gives me that life - His life..

 

[tourist]

Is this another "sinless Christian" thread?

That seems to be the nature of the beast.

 

[tourist]

Context has everything to do with changing the meaning of a word.

I love my wife.
I love my pizza.

Two different contexts, two different meanings of the same word.

They're both good though.

 

[jimd]

it does in fact make you sin. if you do not want to be lead into temptation, but have no choice because your nature leads you to it 100% of the time that you exist, you will eventually sin, its a very unfair advantage.
and if thats not bad enough, we are held accountable for these sins that that we are pre designed to commit anyway. the Father that Jesus teaches about is just, original sin sounds very unjust.

Adam and Eve tried to blame the devil, each other and even God, how did that work out for them?