the crucifixion of you, in Christ.

[Grace777x70]

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit , He will be with you and in you forever. John 14:16-17. I do not make Jesus a liar by not believing in Him.

Paul said .."we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption" ( Eph 1:13 ) I believe Paul too and so I don't make him to be a liar either.

"In Him - we have redemption" Paul said in Col1:14 . I believe that those who are in Christ have redemption.

Jesus said "whosoever believes in Me has eternal life". I do not make all kinds of other stipulations in Jesus' words. Either we accept Jesus' words or we call Him a liar. I'm a "believer".

 

[Magenta]

. . . .

 

[Grace777x70]

Things changed after the cross concerning forgiveness. Jesus has obtained eternal redemption for us and it is not contingent on before cross truths. If some people don't want to believe that - then that's up to them.

Here are the very scriptures again after the cross - remember these are word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached.

If forgiving others "in order to be forgiven by God" is a part of the gospel then don't you think Peter and Paul would know about it?

Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then? The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

 

[PaulMack]

John146, you totally misunderstand anything about Salvation.

First, we do not receive Salvation by confessing Jesus is Lord.

Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved

Second we cannot lose our Salvation by not confessing Jesus is Lord.

Salvation is by the Grace of God. So how can we receive Salvation by confessing Jesus?

Since by Grace we have been Saved its by NOTHING we did to receive Salvation and its by nothing we can do to lose Salvation.

What we need to understand is God chose us from the beginning of time to save us by His Grace. Salvation is not based on faith or deeds. Its all based on the Grace of God.

 

[followjesus]

Stunned - There are many teachers and preachers who are simply heretical who grace777 pushes.

By the fruit you shall know them. These teachers are not even close to getting it right. Like grace777
they spend a long time talking about minor issues, and very convoluted words which actually say
very little.

Over the fundamental issues they change their meaning. Future sin forgiven is a core heresy.
Sin done now not repented of, confessed and worked through is another. Denying the basic statements
of Christ, and changing their meaning is the final end.

Love is not the transforming power they preach, but a mystical self realisation. But when you look
at what is happening in the church this is just make believe. The fruit of grace alone preaching is
licenousness. One person from our house group went to a worship training day, and the leader of the
group confessed though he loved praise and worship his life was a mess.

When I talk about the inner self, our hearts, I get attacked for being judgmental from the very people
who claim such higher authority and insight. These are milk issues that are being got wrong, how
could these people claim any spiritual maturity???

amen. so many herecies coming from the omission of Jesus. these doctrines have to omit the Lord because He doesn't teach anything like they push. after a time man created itching ear doctrines. salvation apart from Jesus truth. if a doctrine omits Jesus clear teachings and principles it is absolutely herecy and just omission of part of Jesus words is enough to create any doctrine with the rest of scripture. a person could create a doctrine condoning stoning people if others were willing to omit Jesus, He is the north star in the word, always true and tried, will never waiver, change or misguide us.


our opinions don't matter, Jesus truth does I thasnk God daily that He gave us Jesus words, withoutthem there is chaos and 1000 opinions of things, Jesus is right

 

[followjesus]

John146, you totally misunderstand anything about Salvation.

First, we do not receive Salvation by confessing Jesus is Lord.

Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved

Second we cannot lose our Salvation by not confessing Jesus is Lord.

Salvation is by the Grace of God. So how can we receive Salvation by confessing Jesus?

Since by Grace we have been Saved its by NOTHING we did to receive Salvation and its by nothing we can do to lose Salvation.

What we need to understand is God chose us from the beginning of time to save us by His Grace. Salvation is not based on faith or deeds. Its all based on the Grace of God.

wow. I have no words for this...wait yeah I do. REPENT and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. there is one way and it only goes through Jesus Christ. without Him, there is no such thing as Grace. He is the Lord who offers Grace to those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. grace will not save you unless it is the Grace that comes in Christ Jesus the Lord , that's all the Grace God will ever Give, what you find in Jesus Christ the Lord. the worlds grace is gracing people into eternal damnation, and when a person gets there, they will then confess Jesus the Lord in vein and eternal agony. God is to be revered in all ways

 

[Grace777x70]

As far as "obeying Jesus" in all His commands. Let's look at His words and see if we all obey His commands without thinking of who He is talking to - in the time period He is talking to them.

Here is a question to all of us...did you obey Jesus' words and go to Jerusalem first to preach the gospel just like He commanded?

Here it is again below in blue.

Did you obey Jesus' words when He said to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria"?

If you haven't then you are in your own words - you are denying Jesus.

Do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

 

[followjesus]

View attachment 156636
. . . .

amen. " My words are spirit and they are Life".....walk by the spirit

 

[Grace777x70]

Trying to fit what Peter and Paul said in Acts 10 and 13 - in their word-for-word accounts of preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ can "conflict" with some of our religious beliefs.

The truth is that they did not say. "you must forgive others before you can receive Christ's forgiveness - obtained by God's riches in grace which He purchased with His own blood for an eternal redemption and the complete forgiveness of sins"

There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.

It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law. The law is "you do" in order to receive. The gospel of the grace of Christ says " I have forgiven you - so now you can too"

We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.

Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.

Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

has forgiven you = Aorist indicative which is a one time event that happened in the past ( When Christ died for us on the Cross )

- no talk of forgiving someone else in order to get forgiveness again.

If this "conflicts" with other people's religious beliefs - then so be it. I won't call people a heretic for not believing in Christ's completed work for us and that His blood obtained eternal redemption for us.

I do know other's will call people that believe in this a heretic because it is not what they believe - but, we'll just leave that with the Lord.

 

[followjesus]

As far as "obeying Jesus" in all His commands. Let's look at His words and see if we all obey His commands without thinking of who He is talking to - in the time period He is talking to them.

Here is a question to all of us...did you obey Jesus' words and go to Jerusalem first to preach the gospel just like He commanded?

Here it is again below in blue.

Did you obey Jesus' words when He said to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria"?

If you haven't then you are in your own words - you are denying Jesus.

Do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

Jesus is the new covenant. and His commands and words are for all nations to the end of the age. you know the commission

Go into all nations...teaching them to obey everything I have commanded YOU. you being Hios followers. there is no possible valid omission for any of Jesus words. if he told His disciples something in matthew, it applies to His disciples until eternity. He says what He says. your struggle now inside should be to accept His words. until you are able to accept Jesus for Who He is, who HE says He is, who God the Father says He is, who all the apostles say He is " the Lord" you have nothing but fantasy until you accept Jesus the Christ and Son of God who holds the keys to life and death. and is not unclear in His gos[pel who to hear and obey. Jesus. cant acceopt Jesus if you omit His authority, sad really to see Christians argue how Jesus isn't valid, kind of sickening to me but hopefully in the future, He will open your eyes to the truth

 

[followjesus]

As far as "obeying Jesus" in all His commands. Let's look at His words and see if we all obey His commands without thinking of who He is talking to - in the time period He is talking to them.

Here is a question to all of us...did you obey Jesus' words and go to Jerusalem first to preach the gospel just like He commanded?

Here it is again below in blue.

Did you obey Jesus' words when He said to "Go and preach the gospel in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria"?

If you haven't then you are in your own words - you are denying Jesus.

Do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?

Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.

Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.

omimtal has various forms. anything to make Jesus wrong or not apply to Christians......and then call it "in Christ" terrible doctrine

 

[Magenta]

. . . .

 

[followjesus]

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit , He will be with you and in you forever. John 14:16-17. I do not make Jesus a liar by not believing in Him.

Paul said .."we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption" ( Eph 1:13 ) I believe Paul too and so I don't make him to be a liar either.

"In Him - we have redemption" Paul said in Col1:14 . I believe that those who are in Christ have redemption.

Jesus said "whosoever believes in Me has eternal life". I do not make all kinds of other stipulations in Jesus' words. Either we accept Jesus' words or we call Him a liar. I'm a "believer".

then believe what he says, you try to pick and choose what he says " I believe this" but no this is for others" this says just believe, that says obey if you believe. gotta just accept Him, cant accepot what the sinful nature wants to accept. that's really where this doctrine came from. the sinful nature doesn't want to die. and it will always argue against Jesus words, always take " he will be in you" but omit all the scriptures around the one you just quoted saying if you obey my commands, if you hold to my teaching ect. its just clear ommital and I hope others are taking note of the doctrine of omission of Jesus. terrible stuff to spread about the Lords only Son who suffered and died to make the way. ....acceopt Jesus, not just savior, but Lord.


If anyone believes in thoer heart and confesses woth thoer mouth that Jesus is Lord, they will be saved. we aren't authorized to omit the Lords word now or ever. gotta adhere to Jesus like he says....but again here I am in the same circle of omission with the same guy pushing the same scriptures plucked out of the truth all around them......waste of time again. imna bow out of this one, Christians who Accept Jesus understand I hope this conversation shows through to even one person under the deception of Gog that this doctrine is anti- Christ

 

[followjesus]

View attachment 156637
. . . .

it does fulfill the law. are we saved by fulfilling law though? or by accepting Jesus as our Lord?

 

[Magenta]

it does fulfill the law. are we saved by fulfilling law though? or by accepting Jesus as our Lord?

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in
your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[followjesus]

I may be at a different stage than you. I am sort of in...like...you know how Paul gives a list of things in Colossians? He says...you have this new life in you. Therefore put to death whatever is in you that is earthly. So Paul understood that these things need to go. He said, put to death whatever is earthly in you.

I guess I'm there still, after ten years, because it took me so long to understand that this could happen only by trust and prayer.

it happens by trusting Jesus and following what He says to do. that's how our old is crucified. its the gospel, its the power of the cross. if He is Lord, we hear and do what He says. his teachings crucify the sinful nature. that's all the references that paul makes about it. we have to do what the Lord says to do, grace does not nullify His word it upholds His word. his teachings are all about oputting to death our self and becoming like He is. it doesn't Just haoppen through believing it will happen. it happens through believing Jesus. if we do, we see him give all these teachings about laying ourselves down, turn the other cheek, get rid of Greed, practice giving ect.....all of Jesus is about laying our sinful nature ( greed, lust, pride, envy, revenge ect..) all the fruits of the flesh Jesus teaches us get rid of this, and he also teaches us to fill ourselves with what he says to do. turn the other cheek, forgive others always, give to the poor, be faithful to your spouse, think pure thouights ect


it is the power of the cross that by faith we follow Jesus to the cross, die and are raised to life all by following Him as Lord because we have faith in Him it is the Gospel. all the power of transformation is in believing Jesus with all our hearts. it works, ins infallible.

 

[followjesus]

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in
your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

amen Jesus is LORD

 

[Magenta]

. . . .

 

[FreeNChrist]

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24)

And what do you think that means?

 

[followjesus]

And what do you think that means?

cThe acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.



same thing as romans 8:12-13"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

ephesians 5But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[SUP]a[/SUP] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.


colossians 3 ect........


its paul making sure that no one falls for the unconditional doctrine. Hes making clear you have to Live after the spirit of Christ.
if you follow your own self, you will die, but if you put your selfishness to death you will live. the [process of this hapopens by accepting and obeying Jesus. paul never taught to just believe your new and that's it. he taught believe you are new, now go put your old to death, and live as the free man from sin. its the same thing Jesus made clear. saying something, believing it and also doing it. cant just think our way home, we have to believe Jesus and do what he is telling us to do. follow him to the cross and also out of the tomb