The god of CCM is the Antichrist

[phil112]

You mean this one...

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dgxekIz_y4A[/video]

Norman Greenbaum did the only acceptable version of Spirit in the Sky.
"Prepare yourself, you know it's a must, gotta have a friend in Jesus"

The problem with music in worship, or anything else for that matter, is trying to bring the world in and make it part of your service.
Nothing wrong with music, as long as it isn't vulgar, but it doesn't need to be in church if it isn't about serving God.
Making church a place where you can enjoy your rap or head banging music isn't serving God.
Church isn't about you enjoying yourself, it is about recognizing and observing God as Lord and Master of all. It is about Him.
I like stock car racing. If I titled a video "Racing for Christ" and showed it on a monitor in church, would that be okay? Why not? Nothing sinful about racing. It isn't serving God, it would be about me.
And that is what most so-called "christian" music is today. It is about the people performing, their desire to get noticed, to get recognition.
Just because something is not a sin doesn't automatically qualify it as being proper for bringing into church. At that point it does indeed become sin.

 

[posthuman]

Norman Greenbaum did the only acceptable version of Spirit in the Sky.
"Prepare yourself, you know it's a must, gotta have a friend in Jesus"

The problem with music in worship, or anything else for that matter, is trying to bring the world in and make it part of your service.
Nothing wrong with music, as long as it isn't vulgar, but it doesn't need to be in church if it isn't about serving God.
Making church a place where you can enjoy your rap or head banging music isn't serving God.
Church isn't about you enjoying yourself, it is about recognizing and observing God as Lord and Master of all. It is about Him.
I like stock car racing. If I titled a video "Racing for Christ" and showed it on a monitor in church, would that be okay? Why not? Nothing sinful about racing. It isn't serving God, it would be about me.
And that is what most so-called "christian" music is today. It is about the people performing, their desire to get noticed, to get recognition.
Just because something is not a sin doesn't automatically qualify it as being proper for bringing into church. At that point it does indeed become sin.

but church isn't a building, it's a body of people who find life in Christ.

when we're together, we need to be careful not to "offend the weaker brother" - but does that mean no one can eat a pork sandwich at any time, in any place, because one person who meets in the same building as you do every sunday is a vegetarian? where does that line of reasoning stop? we could end up requiring blindfolds and noise-cancelling headphones at the door to the chapel.

if i accuse everyone who sings or plays music of being wholly concerned with being recognized and drawing attention to themselves, what stops me from doing the same for everyone who stands up behind a pulpit, writes a book or pamphlet, or opens their mouth to speak?
is a person playing a guitar sinfully drawing attention to themselves, but a person playing a flute, not? drums self-serving, but pianos, no? a person singing a psalm into a microphone is vain, but a person reading the same psalm into the same microphone is edifying? that don't make sense.

i know that's not what you're saying, Phil; i just think the logic is thornier than it seems on the surface. a group compromising on which toppings to order for a pizza doesn't make it wrong to enjoy anchovies when you dine alone or with other fish-eaters, and i don't believe that's an example of moral relativism either. it's just logistical efficiency.

 

[Sirk]

but church isn't a building, it's a body of people who find life in Christ.

when we're together, we need to be careful not to "offend the weaker brother" - but does that mean no one can eat a pork sandwich at any time, in any place, because one person who meets in the same building as you do every sunday is a vegetarian? where does that line of reasoning stop? we could end up requiring blindfolds and noise-cancelling headphones at the door to the chapel.

if i accuse everyone who sings or plays music of being wholly concerned with being recognized and drawing attention to themselves, what stops me from doing the same for everyone who stands up behind a pulpit, writes a book or pamphlet, or opens their mouth to speak?
is a person playing a guitar sinfully drawing attention to themselves, but a person playing a flute, not? drums self-serving, but pianos, no? a person singing a psalm into a microphone is vain, but a person reading the same psalm into the same microphone is edifying? that don't make sense.

i know that's not what you're saying, Phil; i just think the logic is thornier than it seems on the surface. a group compromising on which toppings to order for a pizza doesn't make it wrong to enjoy anchovies when you dine alone or with other fish-eaters, and i don't believe that's an example of moral relativism either. it's just logistical efficiency.

My theory is that people who get all up in arms about something that doesn't appeal to them are just making a distraction from their own insecurities. It's precisely the reason why scripture tells us to get the log out of our own eye.

 

[posthuman]

bile is good in the stomach, but bad in the mouth. blood belongs in veins, but not in lungs.
there's got to be a time and a place for all these things within the church as the body of Christ, and it seems very wrong to me to condemn out-of-hand what other people thank God for.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

The issue I take with brothers and sisters who attack contemporary P&W is that they simply Assume worship leaders exalt themselves and its all about them.

Davids wife assumed the same thing and she was stricken barren for life, maybe that is why so many in the church today are Barren, because they cannot get past themselves in Praise and Worship and assume too much.

CCM and worship today was exactly as it was during the time of the Red Sea crossing until David. Habakkuk was a prophet worship leader, who played loudly on his 10 stringed instrument. David routinely told the worship leaders of his time, how his Psalms should be played and which instruments they should be played on. It was no single harp and all pious and stern and rigid. Many of the Psalms are directed to be played on guitars, drums, cymbals, tambourines, horns and accompanied by shouting, clapping and dancing.


If you were to put modern day music to the song of deliverance Miriam sang when the Red Sea closed, some of you all would stone her. The same could be said form many of the Psalms and songs of Moses.

Jesus loved worship and praise and I bet he was not nearly as tight in the seat as most Christians today. The only time he got angry was when the temple was turned into a den of thieves.

Do not even get me started on how most of the old Hymns and southern Gospel of the Gaithers and others actually keep people in self righteousness and works mindsets, because there is no deliverance until we git over thar....hogwash!

To be clear, I do not think all the old Hymns are like this, but many were written and composed by those that believe/believed we were still under the law and it is completely reflected in the hymns. These hymns are then interpreted by those preachers and song leaders which still believe we are under law and not under grace.


The most interesting thing I find with that brothers and sisters that are against most CCM P&W today and say its all about bringing the world and nothing but worship leaders exalting themselves and lyrics are bad and like rock music and do not exalt God, etc is they do not know their Bible. Our worship team do the Chorus No Longer Slaves by Bethel, which is a very powerful worship chorus that touches many. I received complaints from the usual crowd, where is God in this song!?!?!There is no Bible in this song, it's just to exalt people!!! Oh really I said, Open your Bible to Romans 8, 1 John 4.18, Exodus 14 & 15, Jeremiah 1, 2 Cor 5, Colossians 1.13, and Psalm 107 now read through those passages and compare the lyrics.

Silence was the answer. Why? Because you cannot argue the Word of God adn this song is nothing but the Word of God, and I have watched many come to Jesus with this song!

The lyrics to NO longer Slaves are below

Verse I
You unravel me, with a melody
You surround me with a song
Of deliverance, from my enemies
Till all my fears are gone
Chorus
I’m no longer a slave to fear
I am a child of God
I’m no longer a slave to fear
I am a child of God
Verse II
From my mothers womb
You have chosen me
Love has called my name
I’ve been born again, into your family
Your blood flows through my veins
Chorus
I’m no longer a slave to fear
I am a child of God
I’m no longer a slave to fear
I am a child of God
Repeat Chorus
Bridge
You split the sea
So I could walk right through it
My fears were drowned in perfect love
You rescued me
So I could stand and sing
I am child of God
Repeat Bridge
I am child of God
I am child of God
I am child of God
I am child of God
I am child of God
Chorus
I’m no longer a slave to fear
I am a child of God
I’m no longer a slave to fear
I am a child of God



David danced with all his might before the Lord and he made it just fine.

The Frozen chosen are going to be in for several surprises in the coming age and loud praise and worship will be one of them.

They best get on board, because the Jesus train is coming and the revival it is bringing, will not look, smell, taste, act, or be like anything, the self righteous crowd has ever experienced.....

 

[phil112]

but church isn't a building, it's a body of people who find life in Christ.

....................

In this example it is a building. Church has more than one definition. We are talking about music in a building, not in one's head.
Gospel music is not about loud instruments, about announcing that there is going to be this wonderful person coming to entertain us.
If we worship God, He will provide the joy, the "entertainment".
I hear what you're saying but you, I, and everyone here, knows it is far and away about individual entertainment.
You want that in the same building on sunday that others don't? How about you folks that do, have a music day, or evening, a singalong, a gospel music fest. Many churches do just that and it makes everyone happy. Don't like music? Don't go to the singing. Want music in church? Go to the singing.
There, problem solved.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

In this example it is a building. Church has more than one definition. We are talking about music in a building, not in one's head.
Gospel music is not about loud instruments, about announcing that there is going to be this wonderful person coming to entertain us.
If we worship God, He will provide the joy, the "entertainment".
I hear what you're saying but you, I, and everyone here, knows it is far and away about individual entertainment.
You want that in the same building on sunday that others don't? How about you folks that do, have a music day, or evening, a singalong, a gospel music fest. Many churches do just that and it makes everyone happy. Don't like music? Don't go to the singing. Want music in church? Go to the singing.
There, problem solved.

How sad for you.

 

[Bushido8000]

I would just like to point out that none of my posts have been responded to.

That being said, here's another fact. There has never been a purely Christian genre. Every form of Christian music has had a secular counterpart to that style of music. I would really like to see what CBH considers worship music, and I will gladly give him "heathen" music from that same time period that comes from the same genre. Again, ChosenbyHim will not respond to my posts AND ADDRESS THE FACTS because cult mentality wont let him.

 

[hitherehowareyou]

What's wrong with CCM?

Simply, it's of the world. CCM does not exalt the Lord Jesus Christ. CCM exalts its 'performers.' CCM promotes the singer and the music, instead of God.


CCM is of the world which is why the world welcomes CCM. Ever notice how CCM is readily accepted by the ungodly? The lost world has never embraced or welcomed the Great Hymns of the Faith.

But they do accept CCM, whether it be "Christian" rock, or "Christian" hip-hop, or "Christian" Rhythm & Blues (R&B). And again, why? Well because CCM is of the world. That is why the world receives and loves CCM.

So called "Christian" rock exalts and elevates the flesh, and not the spirit. Another thing that's wrong with CCM is that CCM artists, a lot of them, sing and perform songs by secular rock groups. (i.e. The band Deliverance has on one of their albums a song ('After Forever') by the wicked and vile rock group Black Sabbath

These are the lyrics to After Forever (and should be noted Tony Iommi is a practicing Catholic)

Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.


This is why it's important to do research before knee-jerking and calling something evil just because you don't understand it.

 

[phil112]

How sad for you.

Sad for me? For having common sense and giving a reasonable solution to the aingst among folks caused by this topic? How sad for you that you read things into posts that aren't there.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Sad for me? For having common sense and giving a reasonable solution to the aingst among folks caused by this topic? How sad for you that you read things into posts that aren't there.

You state things as facts that go against scripture like you always do, that is what is sad for you

 

[posthuman]

You state things as facts that go against scripture like you always do, that is what is sad for you

is this about Norm Greenbaum?

i'm cool with compartmentalizing some congregational worship, ore even better, worshiping together in a way we can all agree on, without condemning each other over what we do separately, as long as we all still get together for bible study & picnics and charitable service and such. it's not like i'd never see Phil, and we could avoid needless offense, so that we could all keep our focus where it needs to be without petty arguments.

 

[Tintin]

Evanescence

Evanescence was originally promoted in Christian stores. Later, the band made it clear they did not want to be considered part of the Christian rock genre, like fellow Wind-up Records artists Creed.[SUP][104][/SUP] Terry Hemmings, CEO of Christian music distributor Provident, expressed puzzlement at the band's about-face, saying, "They clearly understood the album would be sold in these [Christian music] channels."[SUP][105][/SUP] After many Christian stores began to remove the band's music from their shelves, Wind-up Records chairman Alan Meltzer then issued a press release in April 2003 requesting formally that they do this.[SUP][106][/SUP] In 2006, Amy Lee told Billboard that she had opposed being identified as a "Christian band" from the beginning.[SUP][107][/SUP]


Evanescence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah, thanks. Yes, you're right. Evanescence weren't a Christian band, but it did have several Christian band members. I'm not sure where they are now.

 

[Samual]

I generally dislike rock, R&B, and Hip Hop as a matter of taste; but a song like 'God is Not Dead' bu the Newsboys does not seem to fit your description.

I am not arguing your gereral premise just looking at possible exceptions.

I agree with that too. I enjoy rap and rock both. And there are christian rock bands such as skillet, and christian rappers such as IllumiNate, Sevin, and Bizzle. There is even a hip hop music label called GodOverMoney. And I even have a rap song called Can I pray for you

 

[SarahM777]

Ah, thanks. Yes, you're right. Evanescence weren't a Christian band, but it did have several Christian band members. I'm not sure where they are now.

Not everything someone says is Christian,even when some groups are promoted as being Christian or those groups claiming to be Christian when they are not. That's why we do need to be careful.

 

[SarahM777]

Hello there MarcR,

I am sure that there are probably several musicians in the CCM movement which are sincere. However, though just because there may be a few that are sincere, it still does not make them right.

Rock and Roll was birthed out of Rebellion. Just study the history of it. The lyrics and message within a certain song may be uplifting. But if the music it is played with is of the world, it is therefore leavened. And Paul said that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump (1 Cor. 5:6; Gal. 5:9).


1 Corinthians 2:12 (King James Holy Bible)

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Yes Paul did say that BUT YOU TOOK THOSE PASSAGES OUT OF CONTEXT and changing the meaning of those passages.

1 Corinthians 5

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? [SUP]3 [/SUP]For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. [SUP]4 [/SUP]So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, [SUP]5 [/SUP]hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP][SUP][b][/SUP] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— [SUP]10 [/SUP]not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[SUP][c][/SUP] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? [SUP]13 [/SUP]God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[SUP][d][/SUP]

Galatians 5

5It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

[SUP]7[/SUP]You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? [SUP]8 [/SUP]That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. [SUP]9 [/SUP]“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. [SUP]12 [/SUP]As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

1 Corinthians 2


2And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. [SUP]4 [/SUP]My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, [SUP]5 [/SUP]so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. [SUP]7 [/SUP]No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. [SUP]8 [/SUP]None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [SUP]9 [/SUP]However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[SUP][b][/SUP]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—


[SUP]10[/SUP]these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. [SUP]13 [/SUP]This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. [SUP]15 [/SUP]The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, [SUP]16 [/SUP]for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”[SUP][d][/SUP]

But we have the mind of Christ.


Stop taking the passages OUT OF CONTEXT TO PROVE A POINT THAT IS NOT EVEN IN THE CONTEXT OF THE PASSAGE.

 

[Tintin]

Not everything someone says is Christian,even when some groups are promoted as being Christian or those groups claiming to be Christian when they are not. That's why we do need to be careful.

Yes, that's true.

 

[Grandpa]

Music is powerful. I think most of us know this.

When I was younger I listened to heavy metal, and liked it. But I was listening to the prophecy of my damnation and curse. If you listen to the lyrics on some of these heavy metal songs they will give you shivers.

When I started to come to Christ I started to listen to Christian music. I was listening to the prophecy of my Blessing and Salvation.

Is there a middle ground? Music that draws the carnal with lyrics for the spirit? Surely there is. Is it good for you? Only God knows. All I know is that its not good for me.

What I can say for certain is that there is really good Christian music out there that is new. Just because its new doesn't mean its not good.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Evanescence

Evanescence was originally promoted in Christian stores. Later, the band made it clear they did not want to be considered part of the Christian rock genre, like fellow Wind-up Records artists Creed.[SUP][104][/SUP] Terry Hemmings, CEO of Christian music distributor Provident, expressed puzzlement at the band's about-face, saying, "They clearly understood the album would be sold in these [Christian music] channels."[SUP][105][/SUP] After many Christian stores began to remove the band's music from their shelves, Wind-up Records chairman Alan Meltzer then issued a press release in April 2003 requesting formally that they do this.[SUP][106][/SUP] In 2006, Amy Lee told Billboard that she had opposed being identified as a "Christian band" from the beginning.[SUP][107][/SUP]


Evanescence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You've misunderstood the purpose of Evanescence and Creed not wishing to be identified as "Christian bands." Both groups have a strong Christian presence among their groups. But they take their music and style into the venues of non-Christian youth. The message the songs bring to those young people resonates with many of them, but if they were told Evanescence and Creed were "Christian bands" they wouldn't go near them, much less ever hear the message they bring.

Now, that said, they likely go too far in separating themselves from the Christian worldview, usually answering the question, "Are you all Christians?" with a response along the lines that being a very personal question, that being a Christian is more than a religion but a relationship, and how that relationship works out in each band member's life may differ from the others' relationship with God. I'm not certain they mean that denominationally they would be quite different, or if they mean some members are not Christians. But the response can apply either way.

Nonetheless, the evidence is strong that these bands have a definite message honoring Christ, but probably not what would be considered an in-depth gospel theme. Their music raises questions in the minds of the lost, it doesn't necessarily bring unbelievers to the foot of the cross. That is seed-planting, if not out and out evangelism.

 

[notuptome]

There is a lot out there that professes some affiliation with Christianity but really is it so? There is some good contemporary music but the bulk of it is just rock repackaged to sell to Christians. There is a difference between the old hymns of the faith and most of the new modern music.

Music in the church must prepare the folks for worship of the Lord. Worship through the preaching and teaching of the word of God. If the music program is bigger than the preaching then things are out of order and God is not there to bless.

The church is to influence the culture not to be made like the culture. The church is light and salt in the age. Salt that has lost is savor is cast into the street and trampled underfoot. Does that sound like the church today? Divorce rates the same as the world as an example. Church as something you do instead of something vital to your life.

Each must choose according to the dictates of their heart. I choose not to participate in CCM and attend a church that does not use CCM. Joel Olsten and the like well you get what you pay for.

Come out of them and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger