The Gross Error of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Ya know when I think about the atonement and it’s implications in my life and for those in God’s Church I think about this song . Just knowing how undeserving we are ,and how moved I am to humble my will to Him .
[video=youtube;AlAzmztDzFE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlAzmztDzFE&feature=share[/video]
Blessings
Bill
[video=youtube;AlAzmztDzFE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlAzmztDzFE&feature=share[/video]
Blessings
Bill
Instead of smart remarks, provide Scripture which says that Christ did NOT die for the sins of the whole world, did not take away the sin of the world, did not taste death for every man, did not become a ransom for all, and did not become a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did not become the Savior of the world. Even Paul made it perfectly clear that while atonement was for all, it would be effective only for those who believe (1 Tim 4:10), thus "specially of those that believe":
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Even the famous Spurgeon simply presented his strong opinions (biases) and selected some Scriptures which APPEAR to suggest that Christ was not a ransom for all, because it says He was a ransom for "many". But that is easily explained, since only those who obey the Gospel are saved, and thus "all" become "many" and then "few" (as in many are called but few are chosen).
What Calvinists don't seem to grasp is that they are actually MOCKING GOD AND CHRIST. Think about that, and rend your hearts as well as your garments.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Even the famous Spurgeon simply presented his strong opinions (biases) and selected some Scriptures which APPEAR to suggest that Christ was not a ransom for all, because it says He was a ransom for "many". But that is easily explained, since only those who obey the Gospel are saved, and thus "all" become "many" and then "few" (as in many are called but few are chosen).
What Calvinists don't seem to grasp is that they are actually MOCKING GOD AND CHRIST. Think about that, and rend your hearts as well as your garments.
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I am still waiting on Sister Magenta to provide the post where I stated faith and repentance are not necessary for salvation. I have asked her at least twice and she's failed to do so.
When ppl can not refute your position, they then slither into smear tactics. Sad. Really really sad.
When ppl can not refute your position, they then slither into smear tactics. Sad. Really really sad.
Repentance...comforting oneself ...is a work of God. It is after no man.If God does not do the first work of turning us towards Him, not seen, no man could comfort their own self.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
I did notice that he likes to name call and not post Scripture to prove whatever his point is, but if that is his doctrine he needs to examine himself, II Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!”
II Peter 1:5-8 “For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
II Peter 1:5-8 “For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
N6 that is a good explaination of the elect, the sheep, with your explaination of those that obey the Gospel we can see how John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” is a Scripture that teaches limited atonement, only those that believe do not perish and have eternal life. And John 3:3 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” You must be born again to know that you need to believe because if you are not born again you cannot see the kingdom of God or the need to believe or repent.
Did you miss, "especially of those that believe" in I Timothy 4:10? The Greek word "μάλιστα" the word translated, "especially" in the ESV can also be translated "most of all, above all, particularly, (very) greatly from BAGD lexicon. Here are some other translations.
ERV “We hope in the living God, the Savior of all people. In particular, he is the Savior of all those who believe in him. This is why we work and struggle.”
ICB “For this is why we work and struggle: We hope in the living God. He is the Savior of all people. And in a very special way, he is the Savior of all who believe in him.”
PHILLIPS “It is because we realize the paramount importance of the spiritual that we labour and struggle. We place our whole confidence in the living God, the savior of all men, and particularly of those who believe in him.”
MOUNCE “for with respect to this reason we are toiling and struggling, since, “We have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, particularly of those who believe.”
NIRV “This is why we work and try so hard. It’s because we have put our hope in the living God. He is the Savior of all people. Most of all, he is the Savior of those who believe.”
WE “That is why we work hard and put up with troubles. We trust in the living God who came to save all people. He makes a way for those who believe in him.”
Or as Jesus said in John 10:15 "I lay down my life for the sheep"
Did you miss, "especially of those that believe" in I Timothy 4:10? The Greek word "μάλιστα" the word translated, "especially" in the ESV can also be translated "most of all, above all, particularly, (very) greatly from BAGD lexicon. Here are some other translations.
ERV “We hope in the living God, the Savior of all people. In particular, he is the Savior of all those who believe in him. This is why we work and struggle.”
ICB “For this is why we work and struggle: We hope in the living God. He is the Savior of all people. And in a very special way, he is the Savior of all who believe in him.”
PHILLIPS “It is because we realize the paramount importance of the spiritual that we labour and struggle. We place our whole confidence in the living God, the savior of all men, and particularly of those who believe in him.”
MOUNCE “for with respect to this reason we are toiling and struggling, since, “We have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, particularly of those who believe.”
NIRV “This is why we work and try so hard. It’s because we have put our hope in the living God. He is the Savior of all people. Most of all, he is the Savior of those who believe.”
WE “That is why we work hard and put up with troubles. We trust in the living God who came to save all people. He makes a way for those who believe in him.”
Or as Jesus said in John 10:15 "I lay down my life for the sheep"
How about you provide scripture that can show the Blood of Christ, the Atonement, can be separated from Salvation so that some can be Atoned for but not Saved.
Romans 5:6-9
[FONT="]6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Ok. So Every person is justified and saved from wrath?
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So then justification is only for believers. Salvation is only for believers. Atonement is only for believers. Not being condemned is only for believers. Not being under wrath is only for believers.
A person can't be simultaneously Saved and under Condemnation. A person can't be simultaneously Justified and under Wrath. A person can't be simultaneously Atoned for and guilty of sin.[/FONT]
Romans 5:6-9
[FONT="]6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Ok. So Every person is justified and saved from wrath?
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So then justification is only for believers. Salvation is only for believers. Atonement is only for believers. Not being condemned is only for believers. Not being under wrath is only for believers.
A person can't be simultaneously Saved and under Condemnation. A person can't be simultaneously Justified and under Wrath. A person can't be simultaneously Atoned for and guilty of sin.[/FONT]
1 Timothy 4:10 [SUP] [/SUP]For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Who is the "all men" referring to? Only the elect or all men? Is Christ the Saviour of only those that believe? Or is Christ the Saviour of the whole world?
Who is the "all men" referring to? Only the elect or all men? Is Christ the Saviour of only those that believe? Or is Christ the Saviour of the whole world?
Note everyone the above accusation without one piece of evidence. That is called slander. It is uncalled for and un-Christian.
You have no clue what you're talking about. We'll begin there because that is the starting point of your error and argument.
You do not know what "Savior of all men" means in its context, nor are you willing to allow the Word of God to correct you.
You are full of false unsubstantiated accusations on Surgeon and his alleged "bias" none of which you document because you cannot.
No Calvinist is mocking God or Christ as you falsely claim, yet we will glory in your false accusations and give all the honor to our God and our Christ that we have been found worthy to receive such slander from a professing believer.
Furthermore, we happen to know that "Savior of all men" means, and it doesn't mean what you've contorted it to say in your bias and hatred of proponents of the true Gospel. Your favorite pastime is to slander others and pit Scripture against Scripture, this is a well known fact!
It is remarkable the amount of unsubstantiated falsehoods you've lain upon others (Calvinists and Spurgeon) without even one bit of proof for any of it. That is called bearing false witness, the 9th commandment.
You'd fare well to lose your slander, take off your biased lens, repent before God for said slander on many others, and beg him in repentance and humility to show you the truth of the passage you've twisted, and the sin you've committed on many.
You have no clue what you're talking about. We'll begin there because that is the starting point of your error and argument.
You do not know what "Savior of all men" means in its context, nor are you willing to allow the Word of God to correct you.
You are full of false unsubstantiated accusations on Surgeon and his alleged "bias" none of which you document because you cannot.
No Calvinist is mocking God or Christ as you falsely claim, yet we will glory in your false accusations and give all the honor to our God and our Christ that we have been found worthy to receive such slander from a professing believer.
Furthermore, we happen to know that "Savior of all men" means, and it doesn't mean what you've contorted it to say in your bias and hatred of proponents of the true Gospel. Your favorite pastime is to slander others and pit Scripture against Scripture, this is a well known fact!
It is remarkable the amount of unsubstantiated falsehoods you've lain upon others (Calvinists and Spurgeon) without even one bit of proof for any of it. That is called bearing false witness, the 9th commandment.
You'd fare well to lose your slander, take off your biased lens, repent before God for said slander on many others, and beg him in repentance and humility to show you the truth of the passage you've twisted, and the sin you've committed on many.
The very word grace show that one must be elect and the atonement is limited to those that God calls to Himself as Peter said in Acts 2:39. It amazes me that a person can say they are saved by grace then believe it is something they do to receive that grace, makes no sense. The very word grace (unmerited favor) carries with it election and limited atonment, the Lord does not elect to give His grace to all men, which limits His atoning work in mens hearts and when we see what Peter says in I Peter 1:2-3 it is by the Father's foreknowledge that He causes us to be born again.
“according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
The very word grace show that one must be elect and the atonement is limited to those that God calls to Himself as Peter said in Acts 2:39. It amazes me that a person can say they are saved by grace then believe it is something they do to receive that grace, makes no sense. The very word grace (unmerited favor) carries with it election and limited atonment, the Lord does not elect to give His grace to all men, which limits His atoning work in mens hearts and when we see what Peter says in I Peter 1:2-3 it is by the Father's foreknowledge that He causes us to be born again.
“according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
1 Pet 1:1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Peter is speaking to the sojourners not to the Gentile church. The elect here is Jewish people who are dispersed in the land.
A little context goes a long way to proper exegesis.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Peter is speaking to the sojourners not to the Gentile church. The elect here is Jewish people who are dispersed in the land.
A little context goes a long way to proper exegesis.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
All are condemned until they believe.
The flesh is still condemned until it is redeemed so while the soul is redeemed and sealed the flesh still awaits redemption. So yes you are in fact both saved and condemned simultaneously.
This is possible because God operates in eternity and not in time. God only deals with man in the construct of time.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The flesh is still condemned until it is redeemed so while the soul is redeemed and sealed the flesh still awaits redemption. So yes you are in fact both saved and condemned simultaneously.
This is possible because God operates in eternity and not in time. God only deals with man in the construct of time.
For the cause of Christ
Roger