The holiless conundrum

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Feb 17, 2013
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Look all this talk and discussion is nothing without the cross. We are just a club of members speaking of ideology without the cross. If you attended a church that discusses philosophy and sustainability. There Is not a whole lot difference between that and the kiwanis club. We can talk education, philosophy, psychology , science, till we're blue in the face. Without the Cross we have accomplished nothing and lead people astray.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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gotime since you've been so wonderfully saved. You are saying that you have committed no sin?
This is the problem today people make assumptions beyond what is said. No I am not saying that I have committed no sin. The bible/God's word says those who sin are slaves to sin. That was from Jesus the one everyone here claims to follow.

I am saying that Jesus is more powerful than our natures. He can save us and free us. its faith in what He can do, not what we can do. We can do nothing John 15:5.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Readers beware, they are preaching another Jesus and not the one of the bible. We are saved by the work of the cross and by that only if we place our faith in it. If we take our faith off of that, then we are once again controlled by sin and are in danger of losing our salvation. We can be sanctified, but only if our faith is firmly in the cross which allows the Holy Spirit to work in us producing good fruit. There is no other way. You are not perfect by any means and I tell you the truth. Your flesh will always rise against the spirit. We must stay focused on the cross. I know many preachers hardly talk about it any more, but it is the foundation of Christianity. Most will say try harder, read more, pray more. The only victory over sin is the blood of Jesus. Not forty days of purpose, not a 21 Daniel fast, Not going through some other fad that churches constantly come up with. If you want to find God and get closer to Him. It will be on your knees and study of His word.
That's right readers, just blindly believe what this man is telling you on the basis that the past unfaithfulness to the truth of God by religion has already lead you into the trap which you have been in so long that it seems the normal place to be. Therefore anyone trying to pull you out of that trap must be teaching another Jesus.

How quaint. That just proves it, doesn't it.

Listen to me explain how what this man is telling you is deception, not by outright clearly seen lies, but by subtle deception through the distorting of truth.

He says, "We are saved by the work of the cross and by that only if we place our faith in it."

We are not telling you that you can be saved by anything else but the work of the cross! We are in fact telling you that the work of the cross must be continued in you as God's word teaches it ought to be done.

So this man is preaching a subtle deception here in an attempt to make you believe we teach against the cross when the fact is that we are warning you that men such as this one I have posted in reply to are not fully teaching you the cross. They teach just enough of the cross to deceive themselves and you that it really does not have the power to not simply cover sin but to destroy sin in you.

And such incomplete teaching of the cross leaves sin laying covered over in you so that it yet remains alive to cause you to show it's ugly self and cause you to fail at the most critical of moments in your life, your having ignored it in you.

It is all foretold you in 2 Timothy chapter 3. Such incomplete teaching of the cross allows those things Paul mentions there to flourish among those who claim to be Christian.

But it is your choice, now isn't it? Or is the real truth you have no choice but to love God and seek after his understanding and his love which can work in you regulating your heart to do God's will? That is the love from the cross compelling God's it's work to be continued in you. And it is only right that we learn all we can about how the scriptures tell us to be about letting that take place in us.
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Well, not surprising Bookreader just crucified Christ again. He emailed and said I must go.

They hate the truth because they are full by their own twisting of it.

God's spirit be with any of you who resist their wicked spirit in you. Amen
 
Feb 17, 2013
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That's right readers, just blindly believe what this man is telling you on the basis that the past unfaithfulness to the truth of God by religion has already lead you into the trap which you have been in so long that it seems the normal place to be. Therefore anyone trying to pull you out of that trap must be teaching another Jesus.

How quaint. That just proves it, doesn'

Listen to me explain how what this man is telling you is deception, not by outright clearly seen lies, but by subtle deception through the distorting of truth.

He says, "We are saved by the work of the cross and by that only if we place our faith in it."

We are not telling you that you can be saved by anything else but the work of the cross! We are in fact telling you that the work of the cross must be continued in you as God's word teaches it ought to be done.

So this man is preaching a subtle deception here in an attempt to make you believe we teach against the cross when the fact is that we are warning you that men such as this one I have posted in reply to are not fully teaching you the cross. They teach just enough of the cross to deceive themselves and you that it really does not have the power to not simply cover sin but to destroy sin in you.

And such incomplete teaching of the cross leaves sin laying covered over in you so that it yet remains alive to cause you to show it's ugly self and cause you to fail at the most critical of moments in your life, your having ignored it in you.

It is all foretold you in 2 Timothy chapter 3. Such incomplete teaching of the cross allows those things Paul mentions there to flourish among those who claim to be Christian.

But it is your choice, now isn't it? Or is the real truth you have no choice but to love God and seek after his understanding and his love which can work in you regulating your heart to do God's will? That is the love from the cross compelling God's it's work to be continued in you. And it is only right that we learn all we can about how the scriptures tell us to be about letting that take place in us.
I am totally for preaching the cross do you. This man will stand behind the cross. It is the only thing I can do. I do not present a false doctrine. How can the preaching of the cross be false. You lie against me and know not what you say. If you are a perfectionist then rely in that. I rely on the cross and nothing else. Where can you find error in that?
 
Mar 15, 2013
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Well, not surprising Bookreader just crucified Christ again. He emailed and said I must go.

They hate the truth because they are full by their own twisting of it.

God's spirit be with any of you who resist their wicked spirit in you. Amen

Three times I was attacked by computer virus issued from this site in the short time I have been here. And three times I had to clean and reprogram my computer.

They are wolves in sheep's clothing. I pray for you to see that there are many of them among you.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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This perfection that you teach is error and does not line up with the word. I thank for your attack. That lets me know that what I'm speaking is right.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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Readers, you see what I'm talking about. The truth is always attacked. Even by the church.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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now there making up stuff. I never sent this Kardia guy an email. Thats how far they will go to stand against truth. Roboop and 1_still can attest that I have sent them nothing.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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As matter of a fact I am reporting this to RoboOp. I will not stand here and be lied upon.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
We are saved by Faith
Faith is the requiring factor
How many times did Jesus say
"your Faith has healed you"
This isn't to take away the magnificence of what Jesus did
What he did was provide salvation for all willing to believe in him
Both for those with unsurrmountable faith
and those of little faith who may struggle
But let us be reminded there were no scriptures written before Moses
What of those people before him?
They too were sanctified by their Faith
Why was Abel approved of
Faith
We have many examples of how Faith in God manifested with Christ working through that person before Christ ever even walked the earth as a man.
Christ was already here before showing up in the flesh

God spoke and people listened
They had a real live one on one relationshop with God without a book
Not that Gods word should be omitted but look at the facts showing that a relationship can and has been present without having to rely strictly on a book as the relationship. Its inside not on the outside.

If you didn't have eyes to read how would you know God?
If you didn't have ears to hear how would you hear his voice?
It's inside.
The relationship is not something to be held or taken away by a thief or burned in a fire or to be removed if our senses our stripped away.
The written scriptures help us when we may have a difficult time hearing him.
They accomplish and lay a strong foundation to be built upon.
We should always check ourselves against scripture when something seems out of place.
But God wouldnt lay a foundation to not build upon it.
I tell you the truth that God speaks to people before they have ever even opened a bible.
And afterward yes we know it takes the discipline to go and read what God is saying. But theres more to the relationship than just Gods word in a book.
It can also be written upon our hearts.
Christ didn't ascend to heaven to leave us to fend for ourselves.

Genesis tells us of how Abraham believed God through Faith and that was all it took to credit him with righteousness
Noah
Job
Had the relationship with the God in spirit more than a relationship in words written down.
This is what we're speaking of
Should a person have to open their bible every single time to hear Gods voice?
Must it be this way?
if that is what it takes then fine
But it can be more than just that as well
I agree with you Early that one must seek God after he has been called
Seek him with all his might and all his being
seek his word because even as Christ may speak to us in spirit we still must couple that with the scriptures.
But something is being overlooked by a few people who don't yet understand
Some people are asking for proof as if Christ needs to reprove himself.
Something is not being completely understood yet
A relationship with Christ is not just one thing
It is everything in unison

A culmination of everything you know, everything you do, everything you accomplish your will in line with Gods will, any knowledge and wisdom offered by God any skills he has blessed you with
EVERYTHING linked together not seperately but all at once in harmony with God.

Were told of Gods promises yet I still see many people binding themselves?
Where are we told this?
No where?
We are told all things are possible
Christ said if we had even the slightest amount of faith we could command a mountain to move
Is this Metaphorical or physical?

Or are people still limiting themselves as well as placing limits on what God can accomplish through them. According to his will and purpose of course which is I think where people can mislead themselves. God doesnt accomplish what we command him, but we can accomplish what God commands of us.
Probably moreso when we stop thinking and worrying about ourselves and our own salvation once it is accounted for.

Who says we are limited except the enemy?

The enemy is the one who has been bound
The enemy is the one who wants us to follow him as well
The enemy is the one who convinces us to doubt Faith in our Savior.

And if it is true that Christ has already conquered the enemy and Christ lives inside each and every one of us

Why believe inability when Christ gives the power to overcome?
Christ can accomplish the same through you as he accomplished himself
And no its not making oneself equal to him.
It is having Faith in him.
Christ did everything by the power of the Father
Not of himself
Christ was a man when he came down just like you and me and had no special powers other than that which was by the father.
He was flesh and blood in every way until he was translated upon his ressurection into his everlasting form.
The difference is, he listened to, consulted with and sought the fathers will every second of every moment of every day.
You can too so don't think otherwise or its just a cop out and an excuse.

What about believers prior to the cross and ressurection. What did they believe?
Did they understand the big picture?
No, because it was all a progression of beginning to the end.
The knowledge we have today is a culmination of everything built upon from what we've experienced and been told from the beginning.
Today we have more revelation of the big picture than even the disciplies of Christs day as we are in the times the prophets spoke of as we see the messages of the end unfolding.
We're actually living in one of the most significant times in history.
Value, cherish and embrace this and make a difference.
Have great Faith in what Christ may accomplish through you.
Don't diminish that as if he died and never rose again.

If it is By Faith, because of the Fathers grace
That is not from ourselves but a gift of the Father
Then I would suggest people need to accept that heavenly gift of faith as opposed to relying on their own faith which can be weak.
If anyone sins and they hate then thats a good start. But the work isnt finished yet. The Romans 7 man was a work in progress.
We are told what sin is to recognise it.
We are told why we sin so we understand why we do it
We are told how to overcome it so as to not remain in it.
We are told these things as a progression like learning math before Algebrae so we have a buidling block of solid understandstanding.
Much like a counsellor points things out to be revealed from an outside perspective looking in which hadn't been seen before.
Christ told us he would be sending The Counsellor.

Why should we be subject to(place ourselves under authority) of the enemy or be bound by him to sin when we are told we have been freed from the slavery of sin and are now a slave to righteousness.

I asked someone a question previously and they declined answering
I'll offer it again...is the Father's will done in heaven?
Easy question, since of course the answer is yes.
But gosh it feels like sometimes we have to start at basics all over again to build those precepts upon precepts.

Next question then, Is the Fathers will done on earth?
Christ himself prayed that the Fathers will be done on earth as it is in heaven
So again, we must conclude by Faith that answer is yes, the Fathers will is done on earth as well as in heaven.

Next 2 questions
1. Would God allow sin in heaven?
2. Does more than just God reside in heaven
:confused:
 
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
Kardia I see your still here will you admit that I sent you nothing. Or will you stand in your lie
 
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
Readers, who is false, I have asked and asked for him to retrieve his lieing statement and if he does I will forgive him. But so far he will not.
 
Feb 17, 2013
1,034
9
0
Any way. The cross is the only way. We must place our faith in the work of Jesus Christ and not that of our own.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
We are saved by Faith
Faith is the requiring factor
How many times did Jesus say
"your Faith has healed you"
This isn't to take away the magnificence of what Jesus did
What he did was provide salvation for all willing to believe in him
Both for those with unsurrmountable faith
and those of little faith who may struggle
But let us be reminded there were no scriptures written before Moses
What of those people before him?
They too were sanctified by their Faith
Why was Abel approved of
Faith
We have many examples of how Faith in God manifested with Christ working through that person before Christ ever even walked the earth as a man.
Christ was already here before showing up in the flesh

God spoke and people listened
They had a real live one on one relationshop with God without a book
Not that Gods word should be omitted but look at the facts showing that a relationship can and has been present without having to rely strictly on a book as the relationship. Its inside not on the outside.

If you didn't have eyes to read how would you know God?
If you didn't have ears to hear how would you hear his voice?
It's inside.
The relationship is not something to be held or taken away by a thief or burned in a fire or to be removed if our senses our stripped away.
The written scriptures help us when we may have a difficult time hearing him.
They accomplish and lay a strong foundation to be built upon.
We should always check ourselves against scripture when something seems out of place.
But God wouldnt lay a foundation to not build upon it.
I tell you the truth that God speaks to people before they have ever even opened a bible.
And afterward yes we know it takes the discipline to go and read what God is saying. But theres more to the relationship than just Gods word in a book.
It can also be written upon our hearts.
Christ didn't ascend to heaven to leave us to fend for ourselves.

Genesis tells us of how Abraham believed God through Faith and that was all it took to credit him with righteousness
Noah
Job
Had the relationship with the God in spirit more than a relationship in words written down.
This is what we're speaking of
Should a person have to open their bible every single time to hear Gods voice?
Must it be this way?
if that is what it takes then fine
But it can be more than just that as well
I agree with you Early that one must seek God after he has been called
Seek him with all his might and all his being
seek his word because even as Christ may speak to us in spirit we still must couple that with the scriptures.
But something is being overlooked by a few people who don't yet understand
Some people are asking for proof as if Christ needs to reprove himself.
Something is not being completely understood yet
A relationship with Christ is not just one thing
It is everything in unison

A culmination of everything you know, everything you do, everything you accomplish your will in line with Gods will, any knowledge and wisdom offered by God any skills he has blessed you with
EVERYTHING linked together not seperately but all at once in harmony with God.

Were told of Gods promises yet I still see many people binding themselves?
Where are we told this?
No where?
We are told all things are possible
Christ said if we had even the slightest amount of faith we could command a mountain to move
Is this Metaphorical or physical?

Or are people still limiting themselves as well as placing limits on what God can accomplish through them. According to his will and purpose of course which is I think where people can mislead themselves. God doesnt accomplish what we command him, but we can accomplish what God commands of us.
Probably moreso when we stop thinking and worrying about ourselves and our own salvation once it is accounted for.

Who says we are limited except the enemy?

The enemy is the one who has been bound
The enemy is the one who wants us to follow him as well
The enemy is the one who convinces us to doubt Faith in our Savior.

And if it is true that Christ has already conquered the enemy and Christ lives inside each and every one of us

Why believe inability when Christ gives the power to overcome?
Christ can accomplish the same through you as he accomplished himself
And no its not making oneself equal to him.
It is having Faith in him.
Christ did everything by the power of the Father
Not of himself
Christ was a man when he came down just like you and me and had no special powers other than that which was by the father.
He was flesh and blood in every way until he was translated upon his ressurection into his everlasting form.
The difference is, he listened to, consulted with and sought the fathers will every second of every moment of every day.
You can too so don't think otherwise or its just a cop out and an excuse.

What about believers prior to the cross and ressurection. What did they believe?
Did they understand the big picture?
No, because it was all a progression of beginning to the end.
The knowledge we have today is a culmination of everything built upon from what we've experienced and been told from the beginning.
Today we have more revelation of the big picture than even the disciplies of Christs day as we are in the times the prophets spoke of as we see the messages of the end unfolding.
We're actually living in one of the most significant times in history.
Value, cherish and embrace this and make a difference.
Have great Faith in what Christ may accomplish through you.
Don't diminish that as if he died and never rose again.

If it is By Faith, because of the Fathers grace
That is not from ourselves but a gift of the Father
Then I would suggest people need to accept that heavenly gift of faith as opposed to relying on their own faith which can be weak.
If anyone sins and they hate it then thats a good start. But the work isnt finished yet. The Romans 7 man was a work in progress.
We are told what sin is to recognise it.
We are told why we sin so we understand why we do it
We are told how to overcome it so as to not remain in it.
We are told these things as a progression like learning Addition and subtraction before Algebrae so we have a building block of solid understandstanding.
Much like a counsellor points things out to be revealed from an outside perspective looking in which hadn't been seen before.
Christ told us he would be sending The Counsellor.

Why should we be subject to(place ourselves under authority) of the enemy or be bound by him to sin when we are told we have been freed from the slavery of sin and are now a slave to righteousness.

I asked someone a question previously and they declined answering
I'll offer it again...is the Father's will done in heaven?
Easy question, since of course the answer is yes.
But gosh it feels like sometimes we have to start at basics all over again to build those precepts upon precepts.

Next question then, Is the Fathers will done on earth?
Christ himself prayed that the Fathers will be done on earth as it is in heaven
So again, we must conclude by Faith that answer is yes, the Fathers will is done on earth as well as in heaven.

Next 2 questions
1. Would God allow sin in heaven?
2. Does more than just God reside in heaven
:confused: