the Law

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C

ChristIsGod

Guest
#62
This thread is Neat = exciting! Thank you for bringing this in Rosy and for everyone that's being really polite.
Kicking back reading here.



 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
This is simply not true.

The words of Messiah make it clear, their law allowed for complete nullification of Yahweh's Law. Theeir law permits stealing, murder, and worse, but one must have studied to know this, 23 vols.

One should be able to understand this from Yahshua's words....

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/72285-key-unlock-some-yahshuas-words.html
lol.. Thats the problem. Yes they excused themselves (to be honest, every lawyer I have ever met does this. They claim to be righteous and God fearing followers of the law. but if we look deep down inside, they excuse sin they are commiting, or just outright ignore it)

Jesus showed is the law was not understood, in the sermon on the mount, He showed what it meant to commit murder. to commit adultry etc etc.


the fact is, you can not follow the law. If God opened your eyes to you most perfect 24 hours on earth, you would be devestated and horrified at how sinful you were on that day. if you think otherwise, you are in some serious trouble.



 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#64
The Laws are not bad or scary, they are a guide book to healthy living, written by our Creator...

People confuse the Law of Yahweh and the law of sin and death.

Romans 7, "7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin. 12 Therefore the Law is W2holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
So basically, there are 2 Laws and contained in those 2 are 10, and contained within those 10 are 613.

One cant keep the 2 if they trample on the rest of the Laws

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. you shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
actually you have it all wrong. Jesus said all of the law is contained in 2.

If you followed the two. you would never break the rest (its called the law of love)

The problem is, we do not have perfect love as God does. so we do not follow the 2. so we end up breaking alot of the rest because we do not follow the 2

 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#66
lol.. Thats the problem. Yes they excused themselves (to be honest, every lawyer I have ever met does this. They claim to be righteous and God fearing followers of the law. but if we look deep down inside, they excuse sin they are commiting, or just outright ignore it)

Jesus showed is the law was not understood, in the sermon on the mount, He showed what it meant to commit murder. to commit adultry etc etc.


the fact is, you can not follow the law. If God opened your eyes to you most perfect 24 hours on earth, you would be devestated and horrified at how sinful you were on that day. if you think otherwise, you are in some serious trouble.



WOW. You speak very ill words. You said "Jesus showed is the law was not understood, in the sermon on the mount, He showed what it meant to commit murder. to commit adultry etc etc."

WOW

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Ezekiyl 36:27, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."

Psalm 119:142-144, "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, because Your Law is the truth! Trouble and anguish have overtaken us, but Your Laws are our bdelights. The righteousness of Your testimonies is everlasting, giving us understanding, so we may live,"

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

Proverbs 6:23, "For the commandments are a lamp, the Law is light, and reproofs of instruction are the way to life."

Psalm 1:2, "But his delight is in the Law of Yahweh, and in His Law he meditates day and night."

Zecharyah 7:7-13, "Were not these words of Yahweh proclaimed by the former prophets, when Yerusalem was inhabited and successful, with her villages surrounding her, when men inhabited the South; Negev, and the lowland; western foothills? And the word of Yahweh came to Zecharyah, saying: This is what Yahweh of hosts says! Execute true judgment, and show mercy and compassion, everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor. Let none of you imagine; think or devise, evil in your heart against your brother. But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which Yahweh of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from Yahweh of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says Yahweh of hosts!"

Isayah 30:9-13, "That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of Yahweh; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (the Law) , and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant."

Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."

Isayah 59:13-15, "In transgressing and lying against Yahweh, and turning away from following our Father, speaking oppression and rebellion, conceiving and uttering from the mind words of falsehood: So judgment is driven backwards, and justice stands afar off, for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yes, truth is suppressed; and he who departs from evil is accounted as mad. Yahweh saw this, and it displeased Him that there was no justice."

Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#67
actually you have it all wrong. Jesus said all of the law is contained in 2.

If you followed the two. you would never break the rest (its called the law of love)

The problem is, we do not have perfect love as God does. so we do not follow the 2. so we end up breaking alot of the rest because we do not follow the 2

So one can break "do not steal" and still be keeping the 2?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
The Laws are not bad or scary, they are a guide book to healthy living, written by our Creator...

People confuse the Law of Yahweh and the law of sin and death.

Romans 7, "7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin. 12 Therefore the Law is W2holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
thats funny.

The law says do not commit adultry, Jesus said if you look with lust, you have done just that (to bad the law could not tell us that fact)

But if we look to anyone with love and with a giving heart (not a selfish and taking aspect) we would never even think of lusting her, we would be to busy trying to see what she needs and how we can serve her. Which is why following the spirit will always work. following the law can never work.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
So one can break "do not steal" and still be keeping the 2?

you have it backwards.

one can follow the 2nd, and they would never be tempted to steal. How can you love someone unconditionally and even think of stealing from them to serve your own self interest (loving yourself more than them, which is what stealing is)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#70
thats funny.

The law says do not commit adultry, Jesus said if you look with lust, you have done just that (to bad the law could not tell us that fact)

But if we look to anyone with love and with a giving heart (not a selfish and taking aspect) we would never even think of lusting her, we would be to busy trying to see what she needs and how we can serve her. Which is why following the spirit will always work. following the law can never work.
Sounds like typical pulpit twisting. Sounds very loving and even correct. But its a bit off. If the Spirit of Yahweh is with one they will walk accordingly and love Yahweh and His Instructions.

Ezekiyl 36:27, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Ezekiyl 36:27, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
Sounds like typical pulpit twisting. Sounds very loving and even correct. But its a bit off. If the Spirit of Yahweh is with one they will walk accordingly and love Yahweh and His Instructions.

Ezekiyl 36:27, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Ezekiyl 36:27, "And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep My Laws."
sounds like a typical lawyer, I am good and righteous because I do not steal, Yet I do not see the times I steal from people every day in one fashion or another, because I am to focused on myself and how good of a lawkeeper I am. and not focused on others.

Jesus said ALL of the law and prophets are contained in those two commands. ALL. I trust the father who spoke through him when he said it, not a lawyer.

If I steal, I have failed to obey law number 2 (and even number 1 because I do not trust God to take care of me)

If I obeyed number 1 and 2, I wuld never steal, because I would never be tempted to steal. Breaking the command, thou shalt not steal. is the result of not following the two commands.
 
Sep 30, 2014
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#72
part of the law.

I call them Gods law for dummies, He gave us only ten, and said you have to obey all of these perfectly every minute from birth to life, or you wil be cursed. And we can not even obey these. Let alone the MANY MANY laws God has given us from genesis to revelation. It is easier for us dummies to see we can not even keep ten. then to give us the whole list we could not even possibly keep track of.
That's because before coming to Christ, we are lost to the world. When we meet and know Christ, He instills in us to keep the Commandments. Are you telling me you've been convicted to do otherwise ? has someone or something told you it's ok to break the commandments ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
That's because before coming to Christ, we are lost to the world. When we meet and know Christ, He instills in us to keep the Commandments. Are you telling me you've been convicted to do otherwise ? has someone or something told you it's ok to break the commandments ?
can you show me where I have ever said it is ok to break the commandments?

this is what I meant when I responded to the op No one ever wants to listen to what anyone says, and we get silly responses like this.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#74
To pit the OT against the NT is error.

There is a plan from Yahweh which is detailed in the 7 Feasts, not all of it has been completed, the Messiah's return is pending.

Hebrew 8:10, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people."

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
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#76
can you show me where I have ever said it is ok to break the commandments?

this is what I meant when I responded to the op No one ever wants to listen to what anyone says, and we get silly responses like this.
Your saying people steal with out knowing they're stealing, means someones been tricked, I believe one knows when they're stealing. then you call commandments laws for dummies, and then you say my comments are silly after asking you questions... Forgive me, if you think my questions are silly but I don't see it that way.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#77
This is all just a rehash of endless bicker threads, and some are "law trolls" getting their jollies. As to the cults, one either believes the entire New Testament is holy scripture, or not. One either believes the Bible, or false prophets and false teachers. It all comes down to this, and I know I'm not going to budge. Are you going to budge, whether you're of, for instance, Paul, or of Ellen G. White? Does anybody else tire of these thread clones, bickering over the same doctrinal milk, matters settled in the first century?
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#78
I don't know about most of you, but when I entered school, we were taught the (TEN COMMANDMENTS),
I didn't really understand the why of that then, but as I grew older, and started intermingling with
other children, it became very, very clear to me, guidelines one might say, in order for there to even
be any kind of respectful order to be had among each other.

it's surely not hard for most of us to figure out why we were taught these principles,
and how that when we began to grow, just how meaningful they would be upon how we started
to live our lives as young people and then on into adulthood.
the influence they had on me was amazing, to say the least, as so for countless others.
for me, oh how many stories I could tell you all of what happened to me when I betrayed my Lord and broke them.
but learn I did, from these ten, so lovingly given gifts, some things a lot sooner learned that others.

how anyone could lump together these precious (ten) rules given to us in the NT - by our Creator in order to make us become
the best person, as He so prays I'm sure He desires us to be, is beyond me.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#79
This is all just a rehash of endless bicker threads, and some are "law trolls" getting their jollies. As to the cults, one either believes the entire New Testament is holy scripture, or not. One either believes the Bible, or false prophets and false teachers. It all comes down to this, and I know I'm not going to budge. Are you going to budge, whether you're of, for instance, Paul, or of Ellen G. White? Does anybody else tire of these thread clones, bickering over the same doctrinal milk, matters settled in the first century?
I dont see how widespread Lawlessness is ok.

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#80
Love

love


love


love


Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

iniquity is:#0458 ???µ?a anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness