The Many Mansions Fallacy

[Ahwatukee]

So lets digest this..

1)You are saying that there is no rapture? Or are you saying there is no rapture that ends with Christians being in heaven?

2) Are you saying that the New Jerusalem revealed in Revelation 21 is to be built on earth during the 1000 year reign of the LORD on earth?

Looking forward to your clarifications..

Hello Adstar,

Just FYI, you're conversing with an Amillennialist. That said, he believes that Christ returned around the time the temple was destroyed. He also believes that Rev.20:1-3 where Satan is bound in the Abyss, took place when Christ was crucified, without the Abyss part. Oh and he also believes that we are currently living in the millennial period and that Christ is ruling through believers on earth. So much for ruling with a rod of iron, eh. Has anyone seen lions eating straw like the ox? Scripture states that when Jesus returns to the earth that "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him." Has anyone seen that event?

 

[lastofall]

(Matthew 11:25)

 

[tanakh]

What a shame. I was hoping for one with a swimming pool and a few hundred acres lol

 

[bikerchaz]

Our Lord Jesus speaking to His disciples...

John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
KJV

I will show the difference between men's doctrines on those verses, vs. what God's Holy Writ reveals.

A. Men's doctrines teach that's about Jesus coming to 'rapture' His Church from the earth, take them to Heaven where they think The "Father's house" will be along with those "many mansions", and then to live and reign with Jesus from there forever.

Problem with that interpretation is it shows they haven't really done their homework in the Old Testament prophets like they were supposed to.


B. Per God's Word, The "Father's house" and the "many mansions" will be manifest ON THE EARTH when our Lord Jesus returns to reign here, with His elect, on earth (see also Rev.5:10). The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters gave us the details of The Father's house and the abodes of the priests which is what those "many mansions" actually are. It all involves the sanctuary layout on earth in the future per the Book of Ezekiel 40-48.

Ezek 40:45-46
45 And he said unto me, This chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.

46 And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto him.
KJV

The Hebrew word Zadok means 'The Just', or 'Righteous'. These represent Christ's elect who will reign with Him.


Ezek 45:2-5
2 Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.

3 And of this measure shalt thou measure the length of five and twenty thousand, and the breadth of ten thousand: and in it shall be the sanctuary and the most holy place.

4 The holy portion of the land shall be for the priests the ministers of the sanctuary, which shall come near to minister unto the LORD: and it shall be a place for their houses, and an holy place for the sanctuary.

5 And the five and twenty thousand of length, and the ten thousand of breadth, shall also the Levites, the ministers of the house, have for themselves, for a possession for twenty chambers.
KJV

The Greek word for "mansions" in John 14:2 is mone, and it simply means an abode, or residence. That's what these houses above are that our Lord Jesus was talking about with that idea of "many mansions".

Now where God showed Ezekiel this Millennial Sanctuary called The "Father's house", would be located, we are shown at the start of Ezek.40:

Ezek 40:2
2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
KJV

This is the SAME holy city that Apostle John was given to see per Revelation 21, which there we are given even more details about the future New Jerusalem:

Rev 21:10
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV


Here's a diagram of the Millennial Sanctuary based on the layout from the Book of Ezekiel:

https://levendwater.org/companion/append88.html

Brilliant LOL I have only just , this last week finished reading Ezekile as one part of my daiely devotional time. I love the last few words,;

“And the name of the city from that time on will be:
the Lord is there.”

My mom used to say there will be sacrifices in the kingdom, this is where she got it from, LOL the east gate I love this, it speaks volumes to me, wonderful post. I was going to ask God to help me visualise this temple/palace where Jesus will reign and you made the link. Thank you God bless you brother.

 

[p_rehbein]

Don't have a clue as to what you're driving at.

I am not surprised that you don't. Here, lemme spell it out for ya.......I disagree with pretty much everything you stated in the OP.............and would like to have you assert what that makes me?

 

[Ahwatukee]

A. Men's doctrines teach that's about Jesus coming to 'rapture' His Church from the earth, take them to Heaven where they think The "Father's house" will be along with those "many mansions", and then to live and reign with Jesus from there forever.

Problem with that interpretation is it shows they haven't really done their homework in the Old Testament prophets like they were supposed to.

Hello DP,

The only reason that you deny exactly what the scripture states is that it kills your interpretation. Let's look at the scripture:

"John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."



* Many dwelling places

* In my Father's house (Heaven)

* I go and prepare a place for you (believers)

* I will come again, and receive you unto myself

* That where I am you may be also

To recap, Jesus is going to the Father's house, which could only be heaven, where there are many dwelling places/rooms. He's going to prepare those dwelling places for believers and then he is going to return again and take believers back to the Father's house to those dwelling places, that where He is, where all believers can be with him. Very simple to understand.

Below is the fulfillment of that promise:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

 

[Ahwatukee]

Per God's Word, The "Father's house" and the "many mansions" will be manifest ON THE EARTH

You have a big problem here with the claim above. First of all, it's not called the Father's house for no reason, for the Father's house could only refer to heaven. Also, Jesus said that he was going to the Father's house to prepare those rooms for believers. Therefore, according to your claim of the Father's house being earth, that would mean that when Jesus went to the Father's house, he would have had to remain on earth. The truth is that Jesus ascended to heaven (the Father's house) to prepare those rooms for believers. When the church has been completed, Jesus will descend from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise first, then those who are still alive will be changed and caught up with them in the clouds and the whole group will be taken back to the Father's house to those dwelling places that where Christ is, believers may be also.

The Ezekiel 40 through 48 Chapters gave us the details of The Father's house and the abodes of the priests which is what those "many mansions" actually are. It all involves the sanctuary layout on earth in the future per the Book of Ezekiel 40-48.

Ezekiel 40 thru 48 is regarding the new temple during the millennial period and will be specifically for the twelve tribes of Israel. They will finally be getting the land that God have allotted to each of the twelve tribes. The church has nothing to do with the information contained in those chapters in Ezekiel.

This is the SAME holy city that Apostle John was given to see per Revelation 21, which there we are given even more details about the future New Jerusalem:

I believe that it is you who has not done his homework DP. Anyone who reads the measurements of the temple described in Ezekiel and compares them to the measurements of the new Jerusalem, can easily see that they are completely different in size and description.

The temple in Ezekiel will be for Israel and her twelve tribes, each tribe having their own allotment of land. These twelve tribes will be those who repopulate the earth during the millennial period. The church on the other hand will have previously been resurrected and changed into those immortal and glorified bodies and we will rule with Christ during that thousand years. Furthermore, the new Jerusalem isn't meant for this current earth and doesn't come down out of heaven until the new heaven and new earth are created as demonstrated in Rev.21.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Here are some of the goings on regarding The Father's house in that future time of Christ's 1,000 years reign. Notice these following events are not... happy new heavens and a new earth timing. These events are about God's corrections upon His people and folks standing in judgment being disciplined. It's not a heavenly party at all, nor is it happening anywhere but on the earth:

Ezek 44:1-24
44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the LORD unto me; "This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same."

Ezekiel is brought to the east gate of the Sanctuary, and it was shut. Because God entered through this gate, no man shall enter in by it. It shall be kept shut.

4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face.

Ezekiel is brought to the north gate before the House. God's Glory filled the House and Ezekiel fell on his face in worship.

5 And the LORD said unto me, "Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the LORD, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary.

God prepares Ezekiel to give His Message to the rebellious of the house of Israel. This should reveal to you that this is a time of correction upon God's people, not some event of floating off in the clouds to make merry.

6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

To the rebellious leaders of the house of Israel, God rebukes them for allowing the unholy and profane to continue in God's House to pollute it, and it involves following abominations God does not approve of. Can you guys think of any abominations going on in some of Christ's Church today?

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

The Levites, the priests, who went astray when Israel went astray to idols, will bear their iniquity. That's about the priests which allowed Israel to go astray into Baal worship during THIS present world. This is about a time of correction for these during Christ's reign with His elect with "a rod of iron."

Notice these Levites (priests) are still going to be involved the goings on in God's House though, as they will be in charge of the gates, and ministering to the house, and minister before the people.

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.

Again, God will rebuke those priests that allowed the house of Israel to stray during this present world. Their punishment will be the menial duties of His House, and not being allowed to approach Christ in His Presence during that time.


15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of My sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister unto Me, and they shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
16 They shall enter into My sanctuary, and they shall come near to My table, to minister unto Me, and they shall keep My charge.

These priests represent Christ's elect saints who will reign with Him during this time on earth. The name Zadok means 'The Just' or The Righteous, and Jesus is our King of Righteousness. These are allowed to approach Christ in His direct Presence in that time, and serve Him at His table. No others will be allowed.

In the Rev.3 Scripture there is a time marker to this event when Jesus said He will make those of the synagogue of Satan to come worship Him at the feet of His elect, so they will know that He loves His elect. The wicked will be made to come up to Jerusalem and worship Jesus from year to year, we are shown at the end of Zechariah 14.

17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.
21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.

These Zadok will wear linen, and will not minister to the people in their holy linens they approach Christ with. Their hair will be neat and clean cut, nor drink wine while performing their duties.

23 And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths.
KJV

This is what those of God's people who strayed will be under during that 1,000 years, which is a time of great teaching and correction. Christ's elect priests will teach them the difference between the unclean and the clean, the holy and the profane, and in controversy will the people stand in judgment the whole 1,000 years period. In that time God's laws shall be kept and all His sabbaths shall be hallowed.

These are events that are to begin with Christ's 2nd coming back to Jerusalem as written.

Your on-going problem DP is that you continue to misapply scripture. Everything above is misapplied scripture used to support your interpretation and that's all.

 

[popeye]

Hello DP,

The only reason that you deny exactly what the scripture states is that it kills your interpretation. Let's look at the scripture:

"John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."



* Many dwelling places

* In my Father's house (Heaven)

* I go and prepare a place for you (believers)

* I will come again, and receive you unto myself

* That where I am you may be also

To recap, Jesus is going to the Father's house, which could only be heaven, where there are many dwelling places/rooms. He's going to prepare those dwelling places for believers and then he is going to return again and take believers back to the Father's house to those dwelling places, that where He is, where all believers can be with him. Very simple to understand.

Below is the fulfillment of that promise:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Comical,how DP can take no brainer verses and work them over with his "expertise".

The postrib rapture mess is so,so busted,it has actually become a form of entertainment.

 

[Adstar]

Hello Adstar,

Just FYI, you're conversing with an Amillennialist. That said, he believes that Christ returned around the time the temple was destroyed. He also believes that Rev.20:1-3 where Satan is bound in the Abyss, took place when Christ was crucified, without the Abyss part. Oh and he also believes that we are currently living in the millennial period and that Christ is ruling through believers on earth. So much for ruling with a rod of iron, eh. Has anyone seen lions eating straw like the ox? Scripture states that when Jesus returns to the earth that "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him." Has anyone seen that event?

Oh ok.. Just looking at this world we can clearly see that satan is not bound up in the bottomless pit.. Satan will be active until the second coming of Our LORD Jesus Christ.. The view that Jesus returned at the time of the desturction of the second temple was a catholic doctrine designed to support the establishment of the roman catholic church as the fulfillment of the 1000 Year reign of the Saints.. If course that si why there was so much fear and end of the world speculation during the time of 1000 AD because they thought the 1000 year reign was nearing the end.. of course the end never came in 1000 AD because the Roman catholic theory of Jesus returning around the time of the destruction of the first temple was just another part of the catholic churches deception.. But never fear the catholic church like some other denominations just declared that the 1000 years was not an actual 1000 years but it was symbolic of a very long time. How convenient.. A great deal of the Book of Revelation must be interpreted in this manor for it to fit in their false doctrine world view..

"every eye will see him, even those who pierced him." Has anyone seen that event?

No.. But i am sure they have some way of symbolically interpreting that scripture some way or another..

 

[popeye]

Since I made it clear that there is no Scripture to show that we live with Jesus off the earth, would anyone like to know what that being "caught up" of 1 Thess.4 is revealing where we go??

Oh good grief

Jesus " I go..."

HELLO? HE WENT TO HEAVEN.

Jesus"our Father which is in HEAVEN,hallowed be thy name..."

Jesus " ...and your Father,which is in heaven...."

Lets see.....THE BIBLE says they are in heaven,and since the mansions are in the same place....

DP,you got ANY reading comprehension?

Why in the world would you pervert such a no brainer?

(you do know that mansions are built for PEOPLE to live in?)

 

[Ahwatukee]

Morning Adstar,

All that you said is right on. I've gone round and round and round with DP and other Amil's, so I know most of their distortions.

But never fear the catholic church like some other denominations just declared that the 1000 years was not an actual 1000 years but it was symbolic of a very long time.

They justify the above by applying the same logic from Psalms 50:10 which says:

"for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills."

Since a thousand hills is figurative of an unknown amount, as well as the cattle on those hills, they apply this formula to Rev.20:1-3 so that the thousand years, which is mentioned six times, is not a literal thousand years, but an unknown amount of time. Unbelievable!

 

[Mitspa]

What a disturbed heart a person must have to be offended that God will save many ....unless you join their little cult group...or believe their false prophet...kiss the ring of their pope

 

[popeye]

Interesting side note

Jesus was/is a carpenter.

Now he builds his bride mansions in heaven.

Iow,we will look at the cuts in the wood,the masonry work,the paint,etc and marvel at the craftsmanship he obtained on earth,and he chose to operate under those limitations in heaven,and build mansions.

For us.

He is "obsessed" with his bride. He is most likely finishing up his great labor of love.

 

[garee]

Just FYI, you're conversing with an Amillennialist. That said, he believes that Christ returned around the time the temple was destroyed.

Hi Awatukee

I see that a little differently ( not a salvation issue) .

I also chose the Amil position as that of the reformers . It seems it can vary somewhat from one person to the next.

It’s the word "thousand" that causes the disagreement with other end time views. The word thousand, hundred and ten are simply used as an undetermined amount in whatever is in view. It is used perhaps hundreds of times in that way as a metaphor in parables.

When Christ said it is finished the mansion with many rooms was completed. No more work was needed. The sacrifice as the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world appeased the wrath of the father.

I have not heard that Amil position that Christ returned around the time the temple was destroyed.

The Spirit of Christ, the Holy Ghost who indwells the believers that are reigning with Christ on earth according to the great commission of getting the gospel out in the world making disciples of men. Christ in us has been performing that work. Or are others looking for another kind of reigning as a kingdom of Priest as ambassadors sent from a foreign land , the new Jerusalem where we have or citizenship and birth rite?

Christ the Holy Ghost when he left he said never again would he appear in the flesh to demonstrate the work of His Spirit being poured on corrupted flesh .

Why would we look for him to appear in the flesh again if we are to walk by faith (the unseen) ?

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now "henceforth" know we him no more.
I think we should ask ourselves how long is henceforth no more? The Catholic espouse the flesh is the sinful nature of Christ even though Christ the Holy Ghost is supernatural denoting no nature, as a beginning.

He also believes that Rev.20:1-3 where Satan is bound in the Abyss, took place when Christ was crucified, without the Abyss part.

He suffered the Abyss part. Satan is bound today from deceiving the elect with new prophecy. They are warned not to add or subtract for the whole or perfect. If any man today says thus sayeth the lord we are to believe not. They would be lying signs and wonders and if possible would deceive the elect .

When he finished the promised suffering, the graves of the Old testement saints were opened and in the new born again spirits they entered to bosom of Abraham, the invisible presence of God .

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

It was the beginning of the first resurrection which will continue until the last day. We are in the last days ...again which started when Christ said it is finished. On the last day the second resurrection will occur, it is the end of time.

Oh and he also believes that we are currently living in the millennial period and that Christ is ruling through believers on earth.

He rules on earth through his eternal word . How beautiful are the feet of those reigning with Christ as they hold out the gospel of salvation.

So much for ruling with a rod of iron, eh. Has anyone seen lions eating straw like the ox? Scripture states that when Jesus returns to the earth that "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him." Has anyone seen that event?

The rod of iron is the word of God in the Potters hand . Iron indicating the earthen mixture of clay, the earthen vessels we live in. Lions eating straw I believe represents the believer being fed by the word of God.

On the last day, the second resurrection the universe will be destroyed as the new heaven and earth appears . It is judgment day for those who do not have the faith of Christ and in the twinkling of the eye both the saints that are asleep and those left reining with Christ will receive their new incorruptible bodies. Not one eye will not witness that event. It’s the end of time .One big last wail will be heard as they do acknowledge they have run out of time. .

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Rev 1:6

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi garee,

It’s the word "thousand" that causes the disagreement with other end time views. The word thousand, hundred and ten are simply used as an undetermined amount in whatever is in view. It is used perhaps hundreds of times in that way as a metaphor in parables.

The problem with that is, the context should always be taken into consideration first in all scripture. That said, consulting other scriptures regarding the thousand years in Rev.20:1-3 is not necessary, for the context makes it clear that a literal thousand years is in view.

When Christ said it is finished the mansion with many rooms was completed.

The above is pure conjecture on your part and that because there is no scripture to support that Christ's words "it is finished" was referring to those rooms as being completed. What they did mean is he completed what he came to do, that is to fulfill the law and pay the penalty for sins.

I have not heard that Amil position that Christ returned around the time the temple was destroyed.

None the less, that is their position.

 

[garee]

Hi thanks for the reply... much appreciated.

The problem with that is, the context should always be taken into consideration first in all scripture. That said, consulting other scriptures regarding the thousand years in Rev.20:1-3 is not necessary, for the context makes it clear that a literal thousand years is in view.

I don’t see that parable in that way it would seem the other way around and the word thousand is used as it normally is to represent a undermined amount of whatever is in view.

While I am not sure where you begin the what you call a literal thousand years as the last days it would seem to be when Christ said it is finished. And if that’s the case its two thousand literal years and rising. According the context it is used as a metaphor to represent a undetermined amount of time.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The above is pure conjecture on your part and that because there is no scripture to support that Christ's words "it is finished" was referring to those rooms as being completed. What they did mean is he completed what he came to do, that is to fulfill the law and pay the penalty for sins.

I think the veil being rent indicates the demonstration is over. Yes to fulfill the law and pay the penalty for sins.
It was the preparation required for Him to build the heavenly city prepared as His bride.

The mansion represents the temple of God represented by the believers His eternal bride the church.

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

She is made of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual mansion dwelling place , as the house of God, his wife .

None the less, that is their position.

I would disagree with that point. The Spirit of Christ, the Holy Ghost is still dwelling in the believers reigning with Christ on earth as a kingdom of priest. Just as he did with the Old testament saints as members of His bride. .

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God they simply do not belong to Him.

 

[Utah]

I don't really care "where" it will be. It is more than enough just to know I will be with Jesus, immanently and transcendently.

Amen to this. It's about Who I'm with, not where.

Mots all about being with Jesus.

 

[DP]

Ok cool thats my first question clarified.. I have no disagreement with your clarification.. Apart from you saying that there is no word rapture in the scriptures.. In the English scriptures there is ""caught up" which in the Latin scriptures is ""rapio"" which angelecised into the word rapture..

Yes, I'm aware of the origin of the word 'rapture' as used in place for Greek harpazo in the NT Greek manuscripts. I use the KJV mostly, so it's not in it. The reason I don't care to use it is because when you mention the word to most folks today, they automatically think of a pre-tribulational rapture, which of course is a doctrine of men that's not written in God's Word.

Well this is where i will disagree with you.. The New Jerusalem's origination is in heaven. It comes out of heaven down to earth already finish built.. and it comes out of heaven at the End of the 1000 Years reign of Jesus and His saints on earth..

Revelation 21: KJV
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

So this is the Place that Jesus was referring to when He said He was going to...

John 14: KJV 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus did go to His Fathers House, Heaven. To prepare the New Jerusalem which is currently still in heaven for His Saints as their Eternal Abode.. But the New Jerusalem will one day Come out of Heaven and down onto the New Earth and we shall dwell in it with the LORD Jesus Christ for ever and ever..

Well, that's the reason why I didn't really agree with your idea of it being 'built'.

Did you notice this verse right after the description of the New Jerusalem in Rev.21?

Rev 21:22
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
KJV

During the new heavens and new earth timing, there will be no... temple. Yet a look in Ezekiel 40 thru 47 and there's the Millennial Sanctuary called God's House existing on earth where Jerusalem is today, and God's River of the waters of life, and the tree of life are both... manifested on earth there.

Moreover, look at this...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Is that suggesting to us that the holy city, AND... the tree of life are manifest while the wicked are still not cast into the lake of fire yet? That's a big... yes. What timing would that be, prior to the new heavens and new earth, or after. It would have to be prior of course. It is actually the timing of Christ's 1,000 years reign over the nations with a rod of iron.

But what is that Scripture doing in the Rev.22 chapter, instead of in Rev.20, where we are shown the events of Christ's 1,000 years reign and afterwards? The wicked outside the gates of the holy city?

Does this suggest the New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven to the earth when Jesus comes? Yeah, it kind of does, but with some differences, like the existence of a temple per the Ezekiel example.

I used to also think all the events from Rev.20 through 22 were in perfect chronological order, until I did study in the OT prophets like Ezekiel. A similar thing, like the Rev.22:14-15 verses example being after the new heavens and earth description, happens in the final chapters of Ezekiel also. The very last verse in Ezekiel is about God dwelling with us on earth, but it doesn't show us the change to a new heavens and a new earth. But the Revelation example does.

The key is that BOTH the Ezekiel 40 - 48 chapters and the Revelation 20 - 22 chapters must be studied together.

 

[DP]

Still more I wanted to give a rebuttal about...

Well this is where i will disagree with you.. The New Jerusalem's origination is in heaven. It comes out of heaven down to earth already finish built.. and it comes out of heaven at the End of the 1000 Years reign of Jesus and His saints on earth..

....
Jesus did go to His Fathers House, Heaven. To prepare the New Jerusalem which is currently still in heaven for His Saints as their Eternal Abode.. But the New Jerusalem will one day Come out of Heaven and down onto the New Earth and we shall dwell in it with the LORD Jesus Christ for ever and ever..

Again, you would have to explain the existence of people standing in judgment like Ezekiel 44 shows with a Sanctuary on earth called God's House with God's River and the tree of life of Ezek.47 also manifested in that time of Christ's 1,000 years reign. And that is the time of Christ's 1,000 years reign, because all judgment is over with God's new heavens and earth timing afterwards.

I don't deny that our Jesus returned to the heavenly to prepare those abodes in The Father's House for His elect. One of the things you should note in the John 14 verses is that, there is NO mention of the New Jerusalem for the new heavens and new earth time period. The only reference is to The Father's House, which is the same "house" in the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters.