The Many Mansions Fallacy
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Then you must have a different Bible than the rest of us, because here is what Scripture states on that...
Rev 21:1-3
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV
And yet, the following events are to occur during Christ's future 1,000 years reign!
Ezek 47:1-12
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV
This is that River Ezekiel was shown by vision...
Gen 2:10
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
KJV
Rev 22:1
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
KJV
Rev 21:1-3
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV
And yet, the following events are to occur during Christ's future 1,000 years reign!
Ezek 47:1-12
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles.
4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV
This is that River Ezekiel was shown by vision...
Gen 2:10
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
KJV
Rev 22:1
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
KJV
Just as the scripture states, the information above takes place after the departure of the this current heaven and earth, as demonstrated just as you yourself listed in Rev.21:1.
The information above is in regards to the millennial temple and the original allotment of land that God promised to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. I have continued to point out that the fact that there is a temple during the millennial period would demonstrate that Ezekiel 40 thru 48 has nothing to do with the new Jerusalem and that because there is no temple there.
Millennial period = New temple
Revelation 21 = No temple
The waters that you keep referring to in Ezekiel are waters that will be here on earth during the millennial period and have nothing to do with the river of life in the new Jerusalem.
How convenient that you only copied the first part of my post and left off my reason why Rev.21 cannot be referring to the millennial period. And how is it that instead of giving an answer to the scriptures that I provided, you just posted other ones. How about addressing the issue that I posted regarding death?
So, here it is again, so that you and everyone can see why Rev.21 cannot be referring to the millennial period, but is in fact representing the eternal state after the millennial period and after the great white throne judgment.
According to Rev.20:14, death is not destroyed until after the thousand year reign of Christ and during the great white throne judgment, which comes after the millennial period. At this point death is cast into the lake of fire. This means that during the entire thousand reign of Christ, death will still be in operation and is not destroyed until well after the millennial period.
Keeping that in mind, Rev.21 from the on-set it is said that there is no death to begin with, for when the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem come into being, there is no death existing from the very beginning. Point being, if Rev.21 was representing the millennial period, then death would have to still be existing and that because it doesn't get thrown into the lake of fire until the close of the thousand years. Not only that, but you have the announcement at the great white throne judgment that this current heaven and earth have departed and that there is no place for them. They're gone! In Rev.21 we hear the announcement of a new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem. Completely new creations.
To be clearer, if Rev.21 with the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem as coming down at the beginning of the millennial period, then death should still be in operation and that because it doesn't get thrown into the lake of fire until well after the millennial period is completed. Yet. according to Rev.21:4, the scripture states that there is no more death at the beginning of the millennial period. Care to explain that? And please do not provide scriptures of the characteristics of the New Jerusalem as I am very familiar with all of them and they don't support your position.
Millennial period = Death still in operation during the entire millennial period and then destroyed at the GWT.
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire." (takes place after the end of the thousand years)
Revelation 21 = Death doesn't exist from the beginning and that because it was destroyed at the great white throne judgment which will have taken place previous to the new heaven and new earth being created.
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Now DP, I don't want to see a myriad of scriptures, but I want you to specifically to answer the above. Just answer the immediate question regarding the problem regarding the issue of death.
This is the chronological order of events:
* The fulfillment of the seventieth seven.
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age
* The establishment of the millennial period
* The end of the millennial period
* The great white throne judgment
* Death and Hades thrown into the lake of fire
* Present heaven and earth pass away
* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem, eternity .......................................>
Rev.21 & 22 is information regarding the eternal state with the new heave, new earth and new Jerusalem. This current earth will never see the new Jerusalem and that because it comes down out of heaven after this current heaven and earth have departed.
The information above is in regards to the millennial temple and the original allotment of land that God promised to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. I have continued to point out that the fact that there is a temple during the millennial period would demonstrate that Ezekiel 40 thru 48 has nothing to do with the new Jerusalem and that because there is no temple there.
Millennial period = New temple
Revelation 21 = No temple
The waters that you keep referring to in Ezekiel are waters that will be here on earth during the millennial period and have nothing to do with the river of life in the new Jerusalem.
How convenient that you only copied the first part of my post and left off my reason why Rev.21 cannot be referring to the millennial period. And how is it that instead of giving an answer to the scriptures that I provided, you just posted other ones. How about addressing the issue that I posted regarding death?
So, here it is again, so that you and everyone can see why Rev.21 cannot be referring to the millennial period, but is in fact representing the eternal state after the millennial period and after the great white throne judgment.
According to Rev.20:14, death is not destroyed until after the thousand year reign of Christ and during the great white throne judgment, which comes after the millennial period. At this point death is cast into the lake of fire. This means that during the entire thousand reign of Christ, death will still be in operation and is not destroyed until well after the millennial period.
Keeping that in mind, Rev.21 from the on-set it is said that there is no death to begin with, for when the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem come into being, there is no death existing from the very beginning. Point being, if Rev.21 was representing the millennial period, then death would have to still be existing and that because it doesn't get thrown into the lake of fire until the close of the thousand years. Not only that, but you have the announcement at the great white throne judgment that this current heaven and earth have departed and that there is no place for them. They're gone! In Rev.21 we hear the announcement of a new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem. Completely new creations.
To be clearer, if Rev.21 with the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem as coming down at the beginning of the millennial period, then death should still be in operation and that because it doesn't get thrown into the lake of fire until well after the millennial period is completed. Yet. according to Rev.21:4, the scripture states that there is no more death at the beginning of the millennial period. Care to explain that? And please do not provide scriptures of the characteristics of the New Jerusalem as I am very familiar with all of them and they don't support your position.
Millennial period = Death still in operation during the entire millennial period and then destroyed at the GWT.
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire." (takes place after the end of the thousand years)
Revelation 21 = Death doesn't exist from the beginning and that because it was destroyed at the great white throne judgment which will have taken place previous to the new heaven and new earth being created.
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Now DP, I don't want to see a myriad of scriptures, but I want you to specifically to answer the above. Just answer the immediate question regarding the problem regarding the issue of death.
This is the chronological order of events:
* The fulfillment of the seventieth seven.
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age
* The establishment of the millennial period
* The end of the millennial period
* The great white throne judgment
* Death and Hades thrown into the lake of fire
* Present heaven and earth pass away
* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem, eternity .......................................>
Rev.21 & 22 is information regarding the eternal state with the new heave, new earth and new Jerusalem. This current earth will never see the new Jerusalem and that because it comes down out of heaven after this current heaven and earth have departed.
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Right,the New Jerusalem does not come down on this current earth,which the New Jerusalem is a place where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and has nothing to do with the millennial reign of Christ on earth,for Jesus said He went away to prepare a place for the saints,so the New Jerusalem is away from this earth.
All sin must be purged with fire,and that is why the saints receive the Holy Spirit with fire,which their soul is purged of sins.
That is why the saints works will be judged by fire,for the fire will try it what kind of work it was.
The earth,and heaven,has been tainted by sin,so they must be purged with fire,which the heavenly elements shall melt with fervent heat,and the earth shall be burned up,and all the works of it.
God said He will make a new heaven,and a new earth,wherein dwells righteousness,where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and rebellion will never rear its ugly head again.
All things of the past concerning that creation will all pass away,and will not be remembered by the saints.
The millennial reign is a physical reign for 1000 years,which Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world that God spared that fought against Jerusalem,which Satan will be bound at that time,and there will be peace.
At the end of the 1000 years,Satan is loosed and deceives those that Jesus and the saints rule over,and God reigns fire down on them,and the millennial reign is over.
The people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon still have punishment coming,but God postponed it until the end of the millennial reign,and then they will receive punishment.I doubt that they will have children during the millennial reign,for God would not allow children to be born of them that cannot be saved.
The earth will probably be thrown in to the lake of fire,where it will be burned up,for the earth is where death,and hell,are at,and death and hell will be thrown in to the lake of fire.
Then the New Jerusalem,with all of creation before that purged with fire,and no more,for it has been tainted with sin,and will pass away.
All sin must be purged with fire,and that is why the saints receive the Holy Spirit with fire,which their soul is purged of sins.
That is why the saints works will be judged by fire,for the fire will try it what kind of work it was.
The earth,and heaven,has been tainted by sin,so they must be purged with fire,which the heavenly elements shall melt with fervent heat,and the earth shall be burned up,and all the works of it.
God said He will make a new heaven,and a new earth,wherein dwells righteousness,where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and rebellion will never rear its ugly head again.
All things of the past concerning that creation will all pass away,and will not be remembered by the saints.
The millennial reign is a physical reign for 1000 years,which Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world that God spared that fought against Jerusalem,which Satan will be bound at that time,and there will be peace.
At the end of the 1000 years,Satan is loosed and deceives those that Jesus and the saints rule over,and God reigns fire down on them,and the millennial reign is over.
The people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon still have punishment coming,but God postponed it until the end of the millennial reign,and then they will receive punishment.I doubt that they will have children during the millennial reign,for God would not allow children to be born of them that cannot be saved.
The earth will probably be thrown in to the lake of fire,where it will be burned up,for the earth is where death,and hell,are at,and death and hell will be thrown in to the lake of fire.
Then the New Jerusalem,with all of creation before that purged with fire,and no more,for it has been tainted with sin,and will pass away.
Thank you mapper for verifying that information. But try explaining that to DP, which is what I have endeavoring to do. He thinks that Rev.21 & 22 is further information regarding the millennial period and that the new Jerusalem is going to be here on this present earth. And I personally believe that when it says "new" that it means brand new and not a renovation of this current heaven and earth. One example of my reasoning for this is that the new Jerusalem is not a renovation of the current city of Jerusalem, but brand spanking new. Therefore, since scripture states that the new heaven and earth are also new, then they are also not a renovation of this current heaven and earth, but brand spanking new.
That could be true, but there is just no further information as to what God does with the new heaven and earth, only that they depart/pass away.
That could be true, but there is just no further information as to what God does with the new heaven and earth, only that they depart/pass away.
The many mansions fallacy?
The wording could mean mansions, rooms, dwelling places.
The words Jesus used here are directly from the Ketubah or ancient Jewish Wedding Ceremony. This is why He used these words and they have very important spiritual meaning as well as symbolic meaning. Jesus used this very example so the people would understand what He was talking about when He said He was leaving and coming back for His bride.
The wording could mean mansions, rooms, dwelling places.
The words Jesus used here are directly from the Ketubah or ancient Jewish Wedding Ceremony. This is why He used these words and they have very important spiritual meaning as well as symbolic meaning. Jesus used this very example so the people would understand what He was talking about when He said He was leaving and coming back for His bride.