The New Heresies and Cultists

Consumed · Aug 9, 2011

2 cor 10
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

VW · Aug 9, 2011

Abiding said:

Do you suppose that He answered in the Holy Spirit?

Let me put it this way. Many believe in a legal, a forensic salvation. And while it is true that all of the requirements of God's justice are meet in the sacrifice of Jesus, salvation itself is not a legal exercise. If all salvation is is just a legal fact, then we have a contract with someone who does not want any contact with us. In essence, we have become lawyers rather than priests.

What this view of salvation does is leave one with only a legal relationship with God. Any legal relationship is under laws. This is not how I know God, although I once knew Him thus. Then I had no living relationship with Him, and there was no power of life in this relationship.

God did not send Jesus into the world to satisfy some legal need, (although this He did also.) Why did God send Jesus? The word is near you, even in your mouth. "For God so loved the world!" The Pharisees were the lawyers. Their relationship with God was dead. If all we have with God is a legal relationship, then we too are dead. In almost all legal relationships, lawyers are needed, because the parties involved do not trust each other, and need to have witnesses to all of the ramifications being spelled out. I don't have this kind of relationship with God.

I tend to agree with Shakespear, who said "kill all the lawyers." I don't advocate killing them, but he expressed a sentiment which I find hard to find fault with. A lawyer is present for divorces. A priest is the one who presides over a wedding. A wedding is a joining of two into one. A divorce is the dissolution of the property of something which has no life now, if it ever did.

Are we His bride, or are we going through a divorce from Him?

Red33 · Aug 9, 2011

zone said:

Zone,

VW has his own understanding and way of thinking and believes it is from the Spirit, therefore it is without error and should not be challenged by others or compromised by himself. You or I or anyone else will never be able to convince him otherwise, even if the Holy Spirit gave him a sign from heaven or prophecy about himself. He is a stubborn, self appointed, independent believer that is going to live how he wants, the way he wants and will never submit to God's leadership through a pastor-teacher or anyone else.

He has been wounded in the past and it has not been healed and he is all caught up with himself and esteems his experience above the word, above others and all doctrine and he does not even understand what the Holy Spirit is doing in each member of the church and body of Christ. This beautiful truth that Christ is our advocate is another instance of his strange understanding. He has made God's salvation and the forgiveness of sins a judicial nightmare and he doesn't even realize it. He is contrary to the finished work and puts conditions upon salvation that subverts faith and the simplicity of believing upon the Son.

Abiding · Aug 9, 2011

VW said:

Do you suppose that He answered in the Holy Spirit?

Let me put it this way. Many believe in a legal, a forensic salvation. And while it is true that all of the requirements of God's justice are meet in the sacrifice of Jesus, salvation itself is not a legal exercise. If all salvation is is just a legal fact, then we have a contract with someone who does not want any contact with us. In essence, we have become lawyers rather than priests.

What this view of salvation does is leave one with only a legal relationship with God. Any legal relationship is under laws. This is not how I know God, although I once knew Him thus. Then I had no living relationship with Him, and there was no power of life in this relationship.

God did not send Jesus into the world to satisfy some legal need, (although this He did also.) Why did God send Jesus? The word is near you, even in your mouth. "For God so loved the world!" The Pharisees were the lawyers. Their relationship with God was dead. If all we have with God is a legal relationship, then we too are dead. In almost all legal relationships, lawyers are needed, because the parties involved do not trust each other, and need to have witnesses to all of the ramifications being spelled out. I don't have this kind of relationship with God.

I tend to agree with Shakespear, who said "kill all the lawyers." I don't advocate killing them, but he expressed a sentiment which I find hard to find fault with. A lawyer is present for divorces. A priest is the one who presides over a wedding. A wedding is a joining of two into one. A divorce is the dissolution of the property of something which has no life now, if it ever did.

Are we His bride, or are we going through a divorce from Him?

Well since we first met, I told you without the Holyspirit there was no life, in fact i said it maybe 20 times
Do you really forget? after 20 times? Anyway i see you totally avoided the question.

Red33 · Aug 9, 2011

Abiding said:

VW is too self-absorbed to remember any of these things that might be mentioned to him because he is on a mission that involves his relationship with and to the Spirit at the expense of condemning the church and any member that does not identify with his understanding about drawing near to God. He is void of edification and does no believe that Christ is sanctifying and cleansing the church with the washing of the word (Eph 5:26). He sees evidence on the contrary because he has never learned to walk by faith, the faith that is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen yet (Heb 11:1).

He can not not have that kind of faith toward the church and rebels against it when he makes these prophecies and things evidenced in his posts. Here Christ is working through the Holy Spirit to sanctify and cleanse the members of His body through the washing of the word, and he is prophesying against that work and magnifies this judgment that God is going to have upon the church. God will do what needs to be done to purged leaven and to discipline those that belong to Him. Our call is to be exercised in a faith that edifies and builds up each member of the church with grace and truth and to have mercy that rejoices against judgment. That kind of grace is not in his heart.

Abiding · Aug 9, 2011

VW said:

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Back to this again, Its not limiting God to obey Him. The bible has everything we need for life and godliness
its His word that he magnified above all His name. For you to imply it limits God is YOUR big lie. I can
supply dozens of verses from the contents of scripture to prove this. Aside from also being in a healthy
body of believers. Nothing else is needed. For you to say otherwise is just casting doubt on His Word.

Let me show you what i mean: your first paragraph ...contradicts what Jesus said in Math 4:4 and many
other scriptures.

second paragraph contradicts 2 tim 3:16 and several other parts of scripture that say the word and nothing else give doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness, to make a man complete and completely
furnished for all good works. Then you tell a big lie and thats a lie against His word. The puppet thing you
must have said to be colorful since it doesnt make any sense. Truth is u operating beyond His word makes you the puppet.

last line: Im not surprised in that, since i got here you were either promoting your illumination or
belittling the word of God. Which contain the doctrines that destroy most all you say.

Abiding · Aug 9, 2011

Yes Red very true. I need to Hold up the Word of God from time to time.
Not everytime. But this one was a doozy load of lies.

4runner · Aug 9, 2011

Yall are a bunch of bullies going around picking on people one at a time. You all should be ashamed of yourself.

zone · Aug 9, 2011

VW said:

who thinks that?
you made it up to justify your charismatic stuff.

you give a polite nod to IMPUTATION, then proceed to imply (rather obviously) that none of us commune with our Lord.

if there's no FORENSIC IMPUTATION you are TOAST (which i might add you're only just learning about....you're making it up as you go along....i read all your posts from the beginning)

as for the rest, puleeze. i know My Lord.

you're just plain dishonest and a religious elitist who believes he has a closer walk with God because you practise (DO THINGS) certain things to EXPERIENCE God. you don't walk by faith.

do you not know that we draw near to God by The Blood, the Mediator BY FAITH, to the throne of Grace BOLDLY? each of us?

and that we do not need to FEEL sensations every day?
we don't NEED experiences everyday? like weirdly suggestive ones i might add.

all creation declares the Glory of God (not my seeking inside myself for a small still voice - Kings/Elijah which is THE ONLY PLACE that phrase is mentioned and has been hijacked by Charismatics and mystics WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND IT) and i praise Him and talk to Him and i know He hears me and and my prayers, and He talks to me THROUGH HIS WORD quickened by the Holy Spirit.

zone · Aug 9, 2011

VW said:

you are. because you are partaking of another cup.
ask yourself why you hate the church so much VW.

Red33 · Aug 9, 2011

zone said:

VW has been asked this before and perhaps he would like to respond and tell us what he loves about the church and body of Christ. We are members one of another and members of Christ's body, flesh and bones. A husband is to love his wife as his own body, as Christ loves the church and gave Himself for it. This is how Christ loves, nourishes and cherishes the church, as His own body. He does not separate Himself from it, He is the head of it and we make up the other parts of His body. How can the hand say that he has no need of the foot? The hand can't judge the foot because he needs it to be able to walk or he'll be hobbling on the other foot and be hindered. How many believers are out there and think they don't need anybody because they have Christ, while Christ is trying to tell them, 'I am the head and I'm over here with my body and you have cut yourself off from the life that I have given my body.'

Abiding · Aug 9, 2011

Rev 17:4 and the Woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, have a golden cup in her hands full of abominations and filthyness of her fornication And upon her forehead was a name written MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

VW · Aug 9, 2011

zone said:

You say that I hate the church. Are you giving a word here? I never said anything about hating the church.

Red33 · Aug 9, 2011

VW said:

Yes you have and you have also indicted the Lord Jesus Christ when you mentioned how He hates the assemblies of the church. You wonder why Zone and others say what they do about you and the things you come up with. You are not all there and you have strange doctrine and other should stay away from you, period. All you will do is condemn their assemblies and tell them that their pastors are not teaching the truth because they do not hear from God. That's great edification for the believer and you do such a good job encouraging them to. Get help VW!

Consumed · Aug 9, 2011

Red33 said:

No disrespect red we all tear s strip or two of some "church", just name the denomination. I read all these posts on false this one false that one, and yes I agree with what the bible says to be vigilant and watch out but I haven't seen anyone post which church actually is "the church" to attend other than what someone posted "the invisible church" I can relate to that one for it's our heart first and foremost in believing and trusting Jesus.

So can ANYONE say which church is the bride?? That had the purest doctrine that speaks absolute church without any fault?? Please tell me I'll go.

zone · Aug 9, 2011

VW said:

well, you like to have your spirit guide say it: what's the diff?

VW said:

Anyone who has the gift of prophecy, or has been called as a prophet, will understand when I say that I did not want to make this post. But the voice of the Lord is not insistent, but rather quietly leading one to do as He wishes. I have from the Lord that I am not to answer critical words any more. So, in obedience to Him, hear these words or not.

In Christ

The testing has started. The dross will be removed from the gold and silver. Those who will not come to Me will not get many more chances. Those who lie about Me will grow even harder in their hearts. Those who do not love Me will go astray, and stumble, and fall. And My servants will prevail, just as I prevailed.

I set a choice before you, with a question. Do you love Me? Will you follow Me? Will you become My servants? Or will you continue to love the knowledge of Me? Will you still follow what you believe? Will you still serve yourself and your pride? Will you live in Me?

Not all that you believe is from Me. And not all that you do is pleasing in My sight. And not all that you say or think is of faith. But My servants will not be so in the days to come. Everything they believe will be from Me, and they will speak My words, and they will do the things that are pleasing in My sight. And I will love them.

I hate your assemblies. I loath your offerings. I despise your service. Your prayers I do not hear, because they are for your own lusts. Your hands are dirty, and your lips have become numb. Your ears do not hear, nor do your eyes see. Who among you has a soft heart? Who is seeking truth in My Father's presence? Who has lost themselves for Me and to Me? Who has lost every other love, to know My love? Who has become My servant?

I am coming quickly. I am coming with a sword. I am coming to make war, to make an end, a complete ending of all the lies. I am coming to reward My servants, and to gather those who love My appearing. Will you be ashamed at My appearing, or will you have great joy? Either way, I am coming quickly.

damombomb · Aug 9, 2011

Rememeber when Jesus asked Simon, who do they say I am: he replied, some say John the baptist, others say Eias, but Jesus replied:
Who do you say I am, Simon answered and said thou art the Christ; the son of the living God. Jesus said , blessed are our( eyes) for
(flesh and blood) (man) hath not revealed this to you but my father which is in heaven he has revealed this to you. So yes God can reveal
himself to us in the spirit, All should have a revelation of him.He is a God of the living, the alpha,omnipotent,omnipresent all-knowing God.

zone · Aug 9, 2011

damombomb said:

not one of is saved by Grace through faith (gifts) without that Divine Revelation of Who Christ is.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

to drag

Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

1670 helkýō– properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.

drag (1), dragged (2), draw (1), draws (1), drew (2), haul (1).

~

we don't need prophets for that.
looks like Father Son and Holy Spirit are perfectly able.

love zone.

damombomb · Aug 9, 2011

True knowone comes to the father unless the father draws him! And unless the Lord builds the house we labor in vain.

Abiding · Aug 9, 2011

Nearly the first 4 1/2 chapters of Ephesians shows this work is done for us and in us.
cultists think its a coop we do with spiritual trinkets.

The New Heresies and Cultists

Consumed

Guest

Banned

Banned

Abiding

Guest

Banned

Abiding

Guest

Abiding

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Abiding

Guest

Banned

Banned

Consumed

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Abiding

Guest