The New Heresies and Cultists

[zone]

The bible says to reject heretics, that they are subverted and condemned in sin. Definetly do not listen to their false teachings, all we can do is pray for them.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

why people do not heed these warnings i will never know.
well....i guess i should say i don't understand.

i do know because The Bible tells us.

Isaiah 29:12
Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I don't know how to read."

2 Peter 2:19
They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.



[SIZE=+1]Drunk In The Spirit? [/SIZE]

Recently, I watched a videotape containing footage from churches participating in the "Toronto Blessing". I was sickened and disturbed by the occultic and animal-like manifestations which I witnessed. I would like to examine a behavior which I witnessed over and over on this video, in videos from the Brownsville Assembly of God and which I have also seen from time to time in Spirit-filled services in which I have participated. This behavior is commonly labeled 'being drunk in the Spirit'. Those in this state exhibit certain signs; staggering, falling down, slurred speech, impaired mental functioning, and bizarre behavior. People leaving 'renewal' meetings have been reportedly pulled over by police for drunk driving.(1)

Pastor Randy Clark shares that it was hard for him to enter into this experience because of his non-drinking background, and then says "…but my worship leader's a recovering alcoholic. Man, he can get right in there."(2) So being a recovering alcoholic enables you to enter more deeply into the power of the Holy Spirit? Hmmm…. Let us begin our examination by looking for examples of Scriptural precedent.

Acts chapter 2, of course, is the logical starting place. After all, the Spirit-empowered believers there were accused of being drunk. Read chapter 2, and then let us consider these points:

* No drunken behavior mentioned--only the works of God being praised in the varied languages of the crowd.

* Only a small minority--the mockers--accused them of being drunk. It was not a legitimate charge, and Peter flatly denies it.

* The prediction of Joel contains no reference to drunken behavior.

* Peter, under the power of the Spirit is not at a loss for words. He preaches a clear and powerful call to repentance.

* The crowd was orderly enough that thousands could hear Peter without the benefit of a PA system.
Our next stop is Ephesians 5:18, which tells us not to be drunk with wine, which leads to ruin, but to be filled with the Spirit. Again, let us observe:

* This is not comparing the effects of an alcoholic stupor with being drunk in the Spirit. It is a contrast of opposites! Drunkenness removes self-control. The Holy Spirit produces the fruit of self-control (Galatians 5:23).
* Verse 19 lists the results of being filled with the Spirit; praising lips, a praising heart, and a thankful attitude.
What an insult to a Holy God, to attribute drunken behavior to His Holy Spirit! While the Bible never refers to being 'drunk in the Spirit', it contains numerous condemnations of drunkenness, and it does refer to spiritual drunkenness as a judgment from God. Consider the following passages:

I have trodden down the peoples in My anger, made them drunk in My fury… Isaiah 63:6 NKJ
"…Thus says the Lord: "Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land…with drunkenness! "And I will dash them one against another…(I) will destroy them" Jeremiah 13:13-14 NKJV
"And they will drink and stagger and go mad because of the sword I will send among them."
Jeremiah 25:16 NKJV

'Therefore you shall say to them, "Thus says… the God of Israel: "Drink, be drunk, and vomit! Fall and rise no more…"' Jeremiah 25:27 NKJV
​

I continued my search by computer, through the writings of the Church Fathers. Again, much condemnation of drunkenness, but no examples of being 'drunk in the Spirit'. Which leads to the $1,000,000 question -- If no precedent is found in Scripture (indeed if the opposite is found), and if no examples are found in the writings of the Early Church, then what in the world are we permitting and perpetuating? If we open the door to the Flesh, or demonic deception, then all sorts of things will come through. We ignore Scripture at our own peril. We cannot afford to follow the traditions of men, and ignore God. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 tells how God will send a strong delusion upon those who do not believe the truth, so we cannot afford to let things slide.
One of the most serious things about this experience of being 'drunk in the Spirit', I believe, is that it makes a mockery of our holy God. It reduces Him to the level of Bacchus , the Greek and Roman god of wine and merrymaking. He is the divine bartender, handing out drinks, encouraging riotous behavior, playing to the laughing, staggering crowds. The ideal 'worship' service resembles a frat party beer bust. What a novel idea; come to Christ, not for forgiveness and cleansing, but for a buzz. Get your heavenly high! Fall down, not in holy fear and adoration, but in a spiritual intoxication. God must be deeply grieved at how easily we drag His name through the mud. How quickly we forsake the truth and chase after illusory experiences. If we can engage in carnival sideshow behavior in the name of worship, do we really understand our God at all?

Drunk In The Spirit?

 

[unclefester]

one last thing:
if we think we can play with strange fire and not be hurt, we're wrong.
dead wrong. God Himself will not allow it (see 2 Thessanlonians 2).

we're in satan's little season; might be a good time to reconsider drinking from that cup of abominations called the new spirituality...you know...where you do things, depart from the faith in order to HEAR THE VOICE OF GOD outside His Holy Scriptures?

later....

2 Thessalonians 2
The Man of Lawlessness
1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,a 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Stand Firm
13But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruitsd to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 17comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

I could not agree more Zone. Now to you people that are reading this thread,....let us consider what we all agree on and do know with absolute certainty. The coming of the lawless one is of the activity of Satan ....with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception. Wicked deception for who ?? Those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. This deception will be of such magnitude, that if it were possible, it would decieve even the very elect.....( Mark 13:22 ..For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.) Now why would these warnings be given in God's Word ..... and who would you consider most vulnerable to this deception but those to whom they are already received as commonplace ? (the signs and wonders crowd...NAR, Latter Rain, Manifest Sons of God, Charismatics etc. etc.) Consider this as well ......What if these things that Zone has been desperately trying to draw your attention to are true ? Think on it before discarding that it "couldn't be". I am here to testify to the fact that Zone is indeed speaking the truth. May the Lord direct each and everyone of you in your search for God's truth.......for there can only be one.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

I vote that ZONE make a website similar to CULTWATCH and we can read all about it there ...

Make YouTube Videos, write some tracts, maybe even a book and a documentary. We can
all still contribute.

Perhaps then it will be organized and make some sense.

In the meantime, why don't we all try reading through the Bible at least once in our lives,
study some concepts of Doctrine, learn how to read and interpret literature, and develop
a system of sharing, explaining and interacting.

 

[WeStand]

Zone, do you believe that the New Apostolic Reformation is a cult? Their leadership holds massive meetings to pray against abortion and teaches the burning of idols or satanic materials. Do you see a problem with what they do or is it just the part about apostles and prophets you don't like?

If you have read your Bible, how could you possibley draw any other Conclusion

The Prophets were DONE,LOOOOONG ago, The Apostles were 12 +1, The rest of us are nothing more than witnesses, To Moses, The Prophets and The Apostles, with Jesus The Christ being The CHEIF among them ALL;

NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN.

BUT YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK WITH THE WISDOM OF THE ELDERS

fOREVER IN CHRIST ​

 

[VW]

If you have read your Bible, how could you possibley draw any other Conclusion

The Prophets were DONE,LOOOOONG ago, The Apostles were 12 +1, The rest of us are nothing more than witnesses, To Moses, The Prophets and The Apostles, with Jesus The Christ being The CHEIF among them ALL;

NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN.

BUT YOU MAY WANT TO CHECK WITH THE WISDOM OF THE ELDERS

fOREVER IN CHRIST ​

That would make it easier if what you say is true. Then we would not have to mess with those guys who hear the voice of the Lord.

The only true witness to God is God Himself, and if we would be true witnesses, then it will be only in the power of God, the Holy Spirit.

 

[Abiding]

I vote that ZONE make a website similar to CULTWATCH and we can read all about it there ...

Make YouTube Videos, write some tracts, maybe even a book and a documentary. We can
all still contribute.

Perhaps then it will be organized and make some sense.

In the meantime, why don't we all try reading through the Bible at least once in our lives,
study some concepts of Doctrine, learn how to read and interpret literature, and develop
a system of sharing, explaining and interacting.

Maybe u could make a site you could call it zonewatch. Oh wait. Maybe youd be better just staying
here and flood threads with irrelevant comments.

 

[WeStand]

That would make it easier if what you say is true. Then we would not have to mess with those guys who hear the voice of the Lord.

The only true witness to God is God Himself, and if we would be true witnesses, then it will be only in the power of God, the Holy Spirit.

Well Vic; it is just that easy, Get Over Death GOD, IS the thought coniousnesss within us; FAMIY DEFILEMENT, If your Family is un-defiled, then i would have to pre-sume that one has the means to hide it $$$.

However it SHALL be exposed.

No hideing Nothing hidden, each and everyone us exsposed for what we are;: VICTIMS OF CIRCUMSTANCE; Family's Defiled or NO Family at all

Forever in Christ

 

[zone]

That would make it easier if what you say is true. Then we would not have to mess with those guys who hear the voice of the Lord.

The only true witness to God is God Himself, and if we would be true witnesses, then it will be only in the power of God, the Holy Spirit.

what about the holy scriptures VW?
God's means of talking to us today.
your achilles heel.

i wish we didn't have to deal with these prophets who claim to hear God's voice.
but we do. so i will.

Mike Bickle and the International House of Prayer, Part 1

Mike Bickle claims to have heard the audible voice of God telling him to start a ministry of "tabernacle of David" worship, which Bickle calls the International House of Prayer (IHOP). We discuss numerous theological problems with this movement.

Mike Bickle and the International House of Prayer, Part 2

We explain how IHOP uses allegorized scripture to create an elitist system of hyper-pious Christians who deem themselves superior to ordinary Christians. We show how allegorizing the Bible leads them away from the meaning of the inspired Biblical authors.

Mike Bickle and the International House of Prayer, Part 3

We discuss the difference between having faith in Christ and having faith in our own degree of personal piety. IHOP promotes the latter and we point to the passages in Hebrews that explain how we draw near to God. We finish by offering advice.

Critical Issues Commentary: Pietism Radio Broadcasts

'how we draw near to God'
YOUR THEOLOGICAL FOUNDATION, VW.
hmmmmm

 

[zone]

I vote that ZONE make a website similar to CULTWATCH and we can read all about it there ...

GO MAKE A THREAD CALLED ZONE'S CULTWATCH i might take part.
stop muddying what i'm posting

 

[VW]

If one wishes to limit God to what is written in the bible, to say that the only way He communicates with is is through our reading the bible, then that is their choice.

That does remove any chance of being told that they are wrong, or in sin, or that they have a need that only He can fulfill. This doctrine makes God the puppet.

I cannot in all honesty subscribe to such a doctrine.

 

[zone]

If one wishes to limit God to what is written in the bible, to say that the only way He communicates with is is through our reading the bible, then that is their choice.

That does remove any chance of being told that they are wrong, or in sin, or that they have a need that only He can fulfill. This doctrine makes God the puppet.

I cannot in all honesty subscribe to such a doctrine.

YOU'RE NOT A PROPHET
NOT TODAY.
YOU WEREN'T YESTERDAY
YOU'LL NEVER BE.
we don't need 'em
God's Word is sufficient

 

[WeStand]

AND FORGIVE US FATHER, FOR THOSE WHO DO TRANSGRESS AGAISNT US; OUR VINYARD OF FLESH FAMILIES.

Those who have and do trangress against us; But more importantly Father, those who have and dol transgress against your Holy and Univsersal Famiy, which has been defiled, and has just as yet; to have the record set, completely straight YET

Forever in Christ

 

[zone]

If one wishes to limit God to what is written in the bible, to say that the only way He communicates with is is through our reading the bible, then that is their choice.

That does remove any chance of being told that they are wrong, or in sin, or that they have a need that only He can fulfill. This doctrine makes God the puppet.

I cannot in all honesty subscribe to such a doctrine.

oh. WHAT ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT, VW?
oh ya....the dirty harlot is VOID of the Spirit so she needs you and your co-prophets.

NAH.

you've rejected the LEGAL means by which we draw near to God: through the Mediator Jesus Christ and His Blood.

you want to 'pass behind the veil' for gnostic secret knowledge, intimate so-and-so convos.
God doesn't operate that way - but the Charis think He does.

too scared to listen to sound exegesis VW?

Mike Bickle and the International House of Prayer, Part 3

We discuss the difference between having faith in Christ and having faith in our own degree of personal piety. IHOP promotes the latter and we point to the passages in Hebrews that explain how we draw near to God. We finish by offering advice.

Critical Issues Commentary: Pietism Radio Broadcasts

 

[VW]

AND FORGIVE US FATHER, FOR THOSE WHO DO TRANSGRESS AGAISNT US; OUR VINYARD OF FLESH FAMILIES.

Those who have and do trangress against us; But more importantly Father, those who have and dol transgress against your Holy and Univsersal Famiy, which has been defiled, and has just as yet; to have the record set, completely straight YET

Forever in Christ

Huh?

The only ones who defile the church are the members of the church.

Oh yeah, and the leaders who have gone the way of Balam, who do the work of the Lord for pay. That deciles the body of Christ.

But the biggest defilers of all are those who deny the Holy Spirit, by which they have been added into the body. God is not likely to forgive this sin.

 

[zone]

But the biggest defilers of all are those who deny the Holy Spirit, by which they have been added into the body. God is not likely to forgive this sin.

1) stop corrupting Hebrews
2) there's one unpardonable sin and you border on it. it isnt denying the Holy Spirit - its BLASPHEMING Him.

 

[VW]

1) stop corrupting Hebrews
2) there's one unpardonable sin and you border on it. it isnt denying the Holy Spirit - its BLASPHEMING Him.

Denying Him is blaspheming Him.

And of course, we are commanded specifically to not grieve Him.

 

[zone]

Denying Him is blaspheming Him.

And of course, we are commanded specifically to not grieve Him.

please stop mishandling scripture.

Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":

1. He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
2. He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
3. He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

 

[Consumed]

Ok holy spirit of God dead?? See gets confusing best of times and I get told it's for the concern of new Christians who come on here??? Give glory where glory is due, by all means rebuke the false imitation stuff 100% but keep the baby while one throws out the water. People do have real legit encounters with God by His Spirit. They usually don't go broadcasting it too much though, it's what changed them to start with.

 

[VW]

Well Vic; it is just that easy, Get Over Death GOD, IS the thought coniousnesss within us; FAMIY DEFILEMENT, If your Family is un-defiled, then i would have to pre-sume that one has the means to hide it $$$.

However it SHALL be exposed.

No hideing Nothing hidden, each and everyone us exsposed for what we are;: VICTIMS OF CIRCUMSTANCE; Family's Defiled or NO Family at all

Forever in Christ

Man, I have no idea what you are talking about?!&$@

 

[Abiding]

If one wishes to limit God to what is written in the bible, to say that the only way He communicates with is is through our reading the bible, then that is their choice.

That does remove any chance of being told that they are wrong, or in sin, or that they have a need that only He can fulfill. This doctrine makes God the puppet.

I cannot in all honesty subscribe to such a doctrine.

Hey VW do you think Matthew 4 is a little misleading for Jesus to say 3 times "it is written"
Wonder why He didnt say "I heard" or "It was said". Whats your take on that?
Do you think He made the Father a puppet?
Do you suppose He had bad doctrine?