The Promises through the righteousness of faith!

[eternally-gratefull]

The last post in my rant, I wish we could separate the health and wealth from the gospel. Because they are not related. and I can start to see why people have problems with a certain teacher now.

His gospel is spot on. I have no problem with it, But when he tries to mix WOF or Health and wealth, it taints his message.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with the basic premise of this however God has used people who had resources from Him to be a blessing to others. Like Joseph who was a rich disciple of Jesus had a tomb for Him.

I never said he did not, in fact if you read, I said he does bless some people with wealth.

Yes God gifts some people with the gift of wealth, and use them to bless many,, But I personally have been more blessed by people in poverty, who love and praise God in spite of their circimstances, Who can not give me a dime, Than many people who are middle class and above.

The Good Samaritan had money to take care of the bills of the guy that was beat up. Being poor is not a blessing from God in any stretch of the imagination.

I will disagree with you in all sense of the word.. I know many poor people who are so blessed, I wish I had their faith and their love, they give more to the church and the people around them, things money can not buy.

I do agree 100% that it is better to have nothing and have Jesus than to have everything that is in this world. But that is not the issue here. Money within itself is not evil - the love of it is.

I disagree, Money is the issue,, God never promised anyone to have wealth,, And to say if one is not wealthy, they are not blessed by God is to send a message of failure, and loss of hope to the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Gods children on this earth who are poverty stricken so bad they have to rely on God to provide them with their one meal they might get in a day.

I think some of these WOF people need to visit third world countries, Where churches are thriving yet people are still impoverished.. Yet people come to them, not because they offer hope of food and shelter, but because they offer them the hope of LOVE.

I too have found that some rich people I have known were afraid of losing their money and that some poor people were happier.

I have also met some poor people that were as equally stinky as a rich person. So having resources or not having resources that I have seen have no bearing on the character of the people.

so this proves God needs to give to peope wealth and health so they can have riches?

Riches because of our own flesh can be deceitful and trick us into having our faith and trust in them - now that is deadly and a definite grace nullifier.

[/SIZE]

Poverty can too. People say that if there was A god, he would never allow a people to live in filth and poverty. It goes both ways.

A persons financial and health status should never be the issue, All men are bankrupt when it comes to God no matter how wealthy they are. We need to give them God, because without God, they are lost.

 

[John146]

I agree with the basic premise of this however God has used people who had resources from Him to be a blessing to others. Like Joseph who was a rich disciple of Jesus had a tomb for Him.


The Good Samaritan had money to take care of the bills of the guy that was beat up. Being poor is not a blessing from God in any stretch of the imagination.

I do agree 100% that it is better to have nothing and have Jesus than to have everything that is in this world. But that is not the issue here. Money within itself is not evil - the love of it is.

I too have found that some rich people I have known were afraid of losing their money and that some poor people were happier.

I have also met some poor people that were as equally stinky as a rich person. So having resources or not having resources that I have seen have no bearing on the character of the people.

Riches because of our own flesh can be deceitful and trick us into having our faith and trust in them - now that is deadly and a definite grace nullifier.

Yes, but being rich is in no way a status of your faith. "If you just had enough faith then God would bless you with earthly riches.

Paul may have been the most faithful to the Lord but most of his life after his conversion was spent poor, naked, without food and shelter, persecuted, knocked down, etc...

 

[ladylynn]

It's not a matter of "either/or" We are always progressively learning about Christ. We should always be in that kind of mode. Pressing forward. So while today we maybe lacking tomorrow we may not. God is able to change our situations when we come to Him. Life has millions of possibilities IN Christ.

As a matter of fact, all things are possible with God and many Christians actually believe this and are learning more and more about Him. We are never to stay in the same place in our walk with Him. It's a walk, it's on a path and it continues. Walking in newness of life is a process and in that process comes the joy of learning what it's like to trust Jesus for all we have even more than we did the year before, the month before and the day before.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Walking in newness of life is a process and in that process comes the joy of learning what it's like to trust Jesus for all we have even more than we did the year before, the month before and the day before.

Then some people trust God with all their hearts, Walk with God. serve others as servants of God. are not takers. Yet lose their jobs, Lose their homes, Have to rely on others to help make ends meat.

These people are just as blessed by God.. God only has to use them a different way (he has a plan)

so to me it is very dangerous to say if we walk and trust God we will be better off tomorrow than we are today. That is a false hope that is not guaranteed.

Just saying sis, LOVE YA!

 

[Grace777x70]

I have heard someone's definition of "prosperity" is having an abundance to meet one's needs and plenty left over to be a blessing to others - not to fulfill their own lusts. Being poor is not a blessing. It is a curse as can be seen in Deut 28.

God never promised that everyone would be a millionaire according to North American standards. There is no such thing as a wealth and health gospel - that is man's invention and terminology.

God doesn't give us "things" God gives us His Son and in His Son - there is all things and the most important of them is the love and the quality of life that is in Christ. There is no lack in Christ.

Being poor is relative to other people too. To experience the love and grace of God you don't have to have anything. We should be content when we are sitting in jail with chains on us in the same way we should be content if one had millions.


If being poor is a blessing ( it's not as scripture says it is a curse ) - then when we go to heaven we are going to be shocked at the abundance that is there.

It is never a matter of someone's status or if they have money or are sick. That is not the issue. There are rich people that look down at poor people and poor people that look down at rich people. People are people and they all need God's grace and love in their life.

I believe we should be believing God for resources SO THAT we can be a blessing to others.

And yes, God can use anything and bless it. He can use a kid's lunch to feed 5,000 people and also direct Peter to throw a net into the water on the right side of his boat and come up with a super abundance of fish - now both examples is having prosperity. We shouldn't be limiting God with how He wants to manifest His life to others.

Anyway....that's my views on prosperity and having things - God blesses us so that we can be a blessing to others and I believe it is the way of the kingdom of God towards others.

 

[garee]

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[TD="width: 100%"]Romans 4:13
For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]God promised Abraham that he would be the heir of the world. Now, don’t be too quick to say, “Well, that promise was made only to Abraham and not me.” The verse says, “For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.” So the promise was not just made to Abraham, but to “his seed” as well, that is, you and I who belong to Christ—“And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:29)

Notice that God did not say that you would be the heir of the country you are living in, but heir of the world! The Greek word for “world” here is kosmos, which means the universe as well as the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, advantages and pleasures. All these are yours to inherit through the righteousness of faith in Jesus and His finished work at the cross. This righteousness is given to you as a gift from God, so you don’t have to earn it through good works.

For God to fulfill His promise, He has to prosper you. You can’t be the heir of the world and be in lack or in debt! Not only that, He must keep you healthy because you can’t inherit the world when you are sick and always flat on your back.

Don’t listen to people who tell you that you will only get to enjoy these blessings when you get to heaven one fine day. Why would you need riches in heaven? There, even the streets are made of pure gold. (Revelation 21:21) And why would you need healing in heaven? There is no sickness there. So you need the health and provision in the here and now!

Beloved, God wants you to be the heir of the world today. So lay hold of your rich inheritance today. Jesus paid for it with His blood. Don’t push it all to the sweet by and by![/TD]
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The promise is in respect to the spiritual seed (singular) of Christ(not seen, the faith principle). Not the fleshy seeds, many of Abraham.... whose mother was a Hittite, and father an Amorite.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham andhis seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Jewish flesh profited for nothing. Even the Son of man according to his own flesh acknowledge it is the unseen spiritual seed by which men are born again from above.

What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.. Joh 6:62

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, but being rich is in no way a status of your faith. "If you just had enough faith then God would bless you with earthly riches.

Paul may have been the most faithful to the Lord but most of his life after his conversion was spent poor, naked, without food and shelter, persecuted, knocked down, etc...

I agree...that is the perversion of being blessed of God by saying "Look how much faith I have because of the "things" I have.

Paul also said that he was in that state so that others would not have to be. People are called to do different things in the kingdom. To put Paul's way of life onto all other believers is harmful and not accurate.

Paul learned the secret on how to live in abundance and how to live with chains on his hands in a dungeon.

It's funny how our calling influences us. The evangelists can't understand why we are sitting listening to teachings when there is a world out there that needs Christ.

The teacher can't understand how we can live without walking in the knowledge of the grace of Christ.

The prophet sees the heart of God and cries this out - he can't understand why people don't see the heart of what God is doing.

The pastor is just trying to bind up all those that are hurt in his flock and to feed them love and grace.

Everyone has their own calling and to try to coerce others into doing what "we" are called to do can cause trouble and can turn into subtle spiritual manipulation.

 

[ladylynn]

I have heard someone's definition of "prosperity" is having an abundance to meet one's needs and plenty left over to be a blessing to others - not to fulfill their own lusts. Being poor is not a blessing. It is a curse as can be seen in Deut 28.

God never promised that everyone would be a millionaire according to North American standards. There is no such thing as a wealth and health gospel - that is man's invention and terminology.

God doesn't give us "things" God gives us His Son and in His Son - there is all things and the most important of them is the love and the quality of life that is in Christ. There is no lack in Christ.

Being poor is relative to other people too. To experience the love and grace of God you don't have to have anything. We should be content when we are sitting in jail with chains on us in the same way we should be content if one had millions.


If being poor is a blessing ( it's not as scripture says it is a curse ) - then when we go to heaven we are going to be shocked at the abundance that is there.

It is never a matter of someone's status or if they have money or are sick. That is not the issue. There are rich people that look down at poor people and poor people that look down at rich people. People are people and they all need God's grace and love in their life.

I believe we should be believing God for resources SO THAT we can be a blessing to others.

And yes, God can use anything and bless it. He can use a kid's lunch to feed 5,000 people and also direct Peter to throw a net into the water on the right side of his boat and come up with a super abundance of fish - now both examples is having prosperity. We shouldn't be limiting God with how He wants to manifest His life to others.

Anyway....that's my views on prosperity and having things - God blesses us so that we can be a blessing to others and I believe it is the way of the kingdom of God towards others.

Sooo much agree with you Bruce! It all ties in also to Jesus being our Good Shepherd who provides for the sheep. We follow Him and He takes care of us. Learning to follow is what we are doing here and faith has everything to do with that. And each of us are on the path of our own faith walk. No one is better than anyone else. God loves us all and provides for us all.

A few years ago I was alone and needy and poor and without help. Today those things do not apply. I'm a 58 yr. old Christian woman who has walked in need most of her life. But today He has brought me up and out. It takes time to learn to walk by faith. We are creatures of time and must work within the frame work of time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have heard someone's definition of "prosperity" is having an abundance to meet one's needs and plenty left over to be a blessing to others - not to fulfill their own lusts. Being poor is not a blessing. It is a curse as can be seen in Deut 28.

I will just say, What the world deems as poor, and what God deems as poor are two different things.

God blesses some to give monetarily. He blesses others to give in time and helps.

The person who is blessed with a little extra to give monetarily is no more blessed by God than the person who can just make ends meet, and has no money to give, but has much time and helps to give to others.

 

[ladylynn]

EG, there was a time I was in a place of blessing when I was totally without means. I was alone in TN with only a few dollars to my name. I had a car. Pennies in my purse to get some bread WOW thank YOU Lord! Oh thank You for my car that I'm safe in. Thank You for that last dime I needed under the car seat!!

It's awesome to be thankful in whatever situation we are in. To be so thankful for a dime under the seat and knowing you can get some food to take home. To have a place to go and shut the door. While I was learning this lesson I was also scared about the next day but He was training me in this process.

He didn't put me in the situation but He used the bad situation to show me how to be content. Later He slowly worked in job and finances but it was not without the losses from my own foolishness. He didn't cause it but He taught me IN it.

We are always going to be going through things. We will always be in training. But we will always have Jesus in it. And each day He reveals more of Himself and I've learned He will provide just as He promised. He is the Good Shepherd to watches out for the sheep. Psalm 23 is awesome to lean on as true real promises for us now while we learn to follow.

[h=3]Psalm 23[/h][h=4]A Psalm of David.[/h][SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
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6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

 

[ladylynn]

I will just say, What the world deems as poor, and what God deems as poor are two different things.

God blesses some to give monetarily. He blesses others to give in time and helps.

The person who is blessed with a little extra to give monetarily is no more blessed by God than the person who can just make ends meet, and has no money to give, but has much time and helps to give to others.

There is also more to the story of what we say is poor and what God says is poor. Now that He has brought me out of my poverty now He is training me how to share the wealth He has given. How to trust Him with the blessings and not let the blessings be what I trust.

See, it's all a process of learning and we learn precept upon precept line upon line of how to read the Bible and use it's principles for our lives here. Trust in the Lord with all your heart LYNN., lean not to your own understanding LYNN., In all your ways acknowledge ME LYNN., And I WILL direct your paths LYNN.

There is no safety or security without Him. Money only gives a means to an end for living here on earth and helping others but it is not security as most humans see it. Jesus is our security and He is the One who protects us and provides. He uses wealth at times too but that is not what we can ever trust in.

The world needs wealth to be secure and safe. They are scared and I understand that. But we are not of the world and we use wealth for His purposes. Blessed because He loves us and blessed to love others and be a blessing to them.

 

[Ruth]

I remember a time in my life when I believed in God but because of my circumstances I didn't trust God. My faith was shaky at best. After struggling financially for 4.5 years, being unemployed and only working temporary assignments and having to be on welfare twice during the 4.5 years....I didn't believe God cared about me or my circumstances and was so full of the "poor me" that I could not see what was going on around me. It was only when I was working another temporary job, on the midnight shift and having to climb into a fleet of 52 garbage trucks to shovel out and spray the bottom of the compactor where the maggots and slime were, that I hit my bottom in life. I remember, driving home after that night and saying, "God if this is the way that You want me to live my life for the rest of my life, so be it, I give up, I just can't take living this way anymore. The stench that permeates your skin and clothing from that night of work was awful and I gagged but could not get physically sick, which annoyed me further because then the supervisor would have sent me home and I would have avoided the maggots and slime.

What I didn't realize at the time was that I was finally surrendering my self-will and humbling myself. This was the moment God had been waiting for in me for quite a few years. I was very self-willed and leading my own life. Thought I was doing God's will but couldn't figure out why my life was not working out. Now, I can see the purpose of that time in my life and I am grateful. I have learned to appreciate things and count my blessings. Even now I have a well paid job, live comfortably, and have a pretty good life because I learned God is in control.

I will not claim that I am perfect because I see daily things in my life that are character defects but the difference is, I know I can go to Him at the end of the day and say, Father, I'm sorry please forgive me and start again.

 

[PeterJens]

Wealth - greed, power, corruption, exploitation, abuse

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is also more to the story of what we say is poor and what God says is poor. Now that He has brought me out of my poverty now He is training me how to share the wealth He has given. How to trust Him with the blessings and not let the blessings be what I trust.

See, it's all a process of learning and we learn precept upon precept line upon line of how to read the Bible and use it's principles for our lives here. Trust in the Lord with all your heart LYNN., lean not to your own understanding LYNN., In all your ways acknowledge ME LYNN., And I WILL direct your paths LYNN.

There is no safety or security without Him. Money only gives a means to an end for living here on earth and helping others but it is not security as most humans see it. Jesus is our security and He is the One who protects us and provides. He uses wealth at times too but that is not what we can ever trust in.

I agree, God has brought many of us out of poverty, Yet I have seen poverty, Our church just asked a few weekends ago for people to give to a fund, so they could give to the people in Haiti who were already in poverty, and just had what they did have destroyed by a hurricane. A few churches we support asked for help, They asked for 20,000, we ended up with 50,000. Praise God.

praise God that he gave us means to help the poor and needy, Who are also our brothers and sisters..

The world needs wealth to be secure and safe. They are scared and I understand that. But we are not of the world and we use wealth for His purposes. Blessed because He loves us and blessed to love others and be a blessing to them.

I disagree, the world needs God to feel secure and safe, Money has no security, money comes and Goes. Gods love and forgiveness lasts an eternity.

 

[Grace777x70]

Wealth within itself is not evil. If it is than that makes God the most evil Being in the universe. - which is complete nonsense.

Wealth within itself does not equate to "greed, power, corruption, exploitation, abuse". It's the love of it that is the root of all evil.

 

[ladylynn]

I remember a time in my life when I believed in God but because of my circumstances I didn't trust God. My faith was shaky at best. After struggling financially for 4.5 years, being unemployed and only working temporary assignments and having to be on welfare twice during the 4.5 years....I didn't believe God cared about me or my circumstances and was so full of the "poor me" that I could not see what was going on around me. It was only when I was working another temporary job, on the midnight shift and having to climb into a fleet of 52 garbage trucks to shovel out and spray the bottom of the compactor where the maggots and slime were, that I hit my bottom in life. I remember, driving home after that night and saying, "God if this is the way that You want me to live my life for the rest of my life, so be it, I give up, I just can't take living this way anymore. The stench that permeates your skin and clothing from that night of work was awful and I gagged but could not get physically sick, which annoyed me further because then the supervisor would have sent me home and I would have avoided the maggots and slime.

What I didn't realize at the time was that I was finally surrendering my self-will and humbling myself. This was the moment God had been waiting for in me for quite a few years. I was very self-willed and leading my own life. Thought I was doing God's will but couldn't figure out why my life was not working out. Now, I can see the purpose of that time in my life and I am grateful. I have learned to appreciate things and count my blessings. Even now I have a well paid job, live comfortably, and have a pretty good life because I learned God is in control.

I will not claim that I am perfect because I see daily things in my life that are character defects but the difference is, I know I can go to Him at the end of the day and say, Father, I'm sorry please forgive me and start again.

That is awesome Ruth. Wish I could hug you!!! You and I were probably in our situations at the same time LOL. I remember so well the rock bottom of finding no security in self or people or the world. No one to blame, no one to go to. Your maggot infested truck sounds ohhhh soooo familiar sister!!

No, we are by no means perfect and we deal with daily personality and character issues that He is working out of us to be more like Him (yaaayyy) but we sure know from where our help comes from!! It comes from the Lord!!! He took care of His daughters all along and loved us better than we knew He did.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree, God has brought many of us out of poverty, Yet I have seen poverty, Our church just asked a few weekends ago for people to give to a fund, so they could give to the people in Haiti who were already in poverty, and just had what they did have destroyed by a hurricane. A few churches we support asked for help, They asked for 20,000, we ended up with 50,000. Praise God.

praise God that he gave us means to help the poor and needy, Who are also our brothers and sisters..



I disagree, the world needs God to feel secure and safe, Money has no security, money comes and Goes. Gods love and forgiveness lasts an eternity.

That is a great testimony of the kingdom of God in action!

The world "thinks" that if they were all wealthy they would be secure and safe. That's part of the possible deceitfulness of riches within itself in terms of the world's way of trusting in them.

I have seen those that were very wealthy and they were far from being secure healthy people...so EG you are right IMO - they need Christ for real life as riches do not possess life within themselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wealth within itself is not evil. If it is than that makes God the most evil Being in the universe. - which is complete nonsense.

Wealth within itself does not equate to "greed, power, corruption, exploitation, abuse". It's the love of it that is the root of all evil.

No one said it was.

That is the first things we have to get out of our mind when discussing these things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a great testimony of the kingdom of God in action!

The world "thinks" that if they were all wealthy they would be secure and safe. That's part of the possible deceitfulness of riches within itself in terms of the world's way of trusting in them.

I have seen those that were very wealthy and they were far from being secure healthy people...so EG you are right IMO - they need Christ for real life as riches do not possess life within themselves.

What amazed me was that 20,000 was just for food. Not to rebuild or give them shelter.

I think many People do not understand poverty,, we have been spoiled in the US and a few other nations where prosperity is rampant.

If a person owns a home and a car. they are considered in the top ten of wealth worldwide. Yet many people in ou country think if I only have one car and a small house. I am not blessed by God and I am impoverished,