The Promises through the righteousness of faith!

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masmpg

Guest
#81
#81
eph610 said:
How does God punish a New Covenant believer? What does that look like today?
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If Martin Luther were alive today you could ask him. Or John Huss, John Calvin, John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Zwingle, Jerome... Ad Infinitum. Maybe these were not "punished" but God used them to wake up the catholic world.

If you are referring to our time all I can say is where are all the Christians that should be sounding the alarm? The Christian church has been in the Laodicean condition for far too long. The big problem with that is they will be spued out of the mouth of God unless they adhere to the remedy Jesus gives in Revelation 3.
 
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eph610

Guest
#82
#82
masmpg said:
If Martin Luther were alive today you could ask him. Or John Huss, John Calvin, John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Zwingle, Jerome... Ad Infinitum. Maybe these were not "punished" but God used them to wake up the catholic world.

If you are referring to our time all I can say is where are all the Christians that should be sounding the alarm? The Christian church has been in the Laodicean condition for far too long. The big problem with that is they will be spued out of the mouth of God unless they adhere to the remedy Jesus gives in Revelation 3.
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I do not see how my question was even answered...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#85
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#85
eph610...don't fall for their "baiting" and insults...it has a purpose. Guard your mind...All is well...:)
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#86
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
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#86
All is well....... I mean watch out they might ask you to discuss what you believe and why,
because ........ be careful ....... this is a discussion forum and our brain washing protocol
....... does not work here ....... you are in danger, all is well ..... withdraw slowly .....
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#87
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#87
Exhibit A - we are not ignorant of these devices....:)
 
laura_charlotte

laura_charlotte

Senior Member
#88
Dec 16, 2012
1,483
114
63
#88
Grace777x70 said:
don't fall for their "baiting" and insults...it has a purpose. Guard your mind...All is well...:)
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This is a fantastic instruction. It should be shouted from the rooftops. People with their own unresolved issues, will do everything in their capacity to get your attention, they'll be happy with a clique buddy audience but ultimately what they're after is your attention because they're insecure and want to bring you down. Set your eyes on the Lord and leave them to Him, don't give the enemy what he's after.


 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#89
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#89
laura_charlotte said:
This is a fantastic instruction. It should be shouted from the rooftops. People with their own unresolved issues, will do everything in their capacity to get your attention, they'll be happy with a clique buddy audience but ultimately what they're after is your attention because they're insecure and want to bring you down. Set your eyes on the Lord and leave them to Him, don't give the enemy what he's after.
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Well said......we can't change people's behavior but we can not let it affect us. Just pray for them and bless them and let the Lord deal with all of us as He sees fit for each of us.
 
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PinkDiamond

Guest
#90
#90
masmpg said:
If Martin Luther were alive today you could ask him. Or John Huss, John Calvin, John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Zwingle, Jerome... Ad Infinitum. Maybe these were not "punished" but God used them to wake up the catholic world.

If you are referring to our time all I can say is where are all the Christians that should be sounding the alarm? The Christian church has been in the Laodicean condition for far too long. The big problem with that is they will be spued out of the mouth of God unless they adhere to the remedy Jesus gives in Revelation 3.
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I know what you are trying to say, but punishment isn't the best choice of words. That's what is throwing other people off. Martyrdom, persecution, sufferings, poverty, etc aren't a punishment from God. Punishment from God would be a judgement or correction from God. To be punished by God would imply that the person has sinned. An example of biblical punishment would be Aaron and Miriam being stricken with leprosy for a season. None of the examples you listed were men that suffered because of sin. Martyrdom ( as some of your examples suffered) is the highest honor a Christian can receive. It's Christ counting us worthy to join in his suffering. I think your point was that many Christians had tough lives and suffered because God used them to reform his church. I think you are making the case that not all Christians will be fortunate to live a financially prosperous life and may endure suffering for the gospel. That I agree with completely.
 
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laura_charlotte

laura_charlotte

Senior Member
#91
Dec 16, 2012
1,483
114
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#91
Grace777x70 said:
Well said......we can't change people's behavior but we can not let it affect us. Just pray for them and bless them and let the Lord deal with all of us as He sees fit for each of us.
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That's it. Close the book, drink your cold glass of water, it's over.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#92
#92
PinkDiamond said:
I know what you are trying to say, but punishment isn't the best choice of words. That's what is throwing other people off. Martyrdom, persecution, sufferings, poverty, etc aren't a punishment from God. Punishment from God would be a judgement or correction from God. To be punished by God would imply that the person has sinned. An example of biblical punishment would be Aaron and Miriam being stricken with leprosy for a season. None of the examples you listed were men that suffered because of sin. Martyrdom ( as some of your examples suffered) is the highest honor a Christian can receive. It's Christ counting us worthy to join in his suffering. I think your point was that many Christians had tough lives and suffered because God used them to reform his church. I think you are making the case that not all Christians will be fortunate to live a financially prosperous life and may endure suffering for the gospel. That I agree with completely.
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About punishment... the believer is no longer punished. The believer is disciplined as a loved child., chastened and trained. Many Christians don't see the difference of the covenants and apply what happened to the old covenant saints to be the same for us under the new covenant of grace.

Jesus paid for all our sins and all the punishment due all our sins. What is left is training. That comes in the form of discipline (for our good) and not punishment. Punishment is to "pay" for something. David for instance was shown mercy but David still had to be punished., some required payment. What David did required a payment of his death. But God showed mercy and let him live but the sword was always going to be a part of his family. And we know what a dysfunctional family David had. Also, David lost his and Bathsheba's 1st son. David got punished a lot but he was a man after God's own heart.

Knowing who we are in Christ now under the new covenant that Jesus brought in of grace., is major to understanding how to apply the Bible verses to our lives. We have to always see the Bible in light of the cross. We have to see our lives and our provisions in light of the cross.

If we don't, we will apply the bad things that are happening in the world to us as if God was punishing us and training us by sickness and or death. And nothing could be farther than the truth.
 
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PinkDiamond

Guest
#93
#93
ladylynn said:

About punishment... the believer is no longer punished. The believer is disciplined as a loved child., chastened and trained. Many Christians don't see the difference of the covenants and apply what happened to the old covenant saints to be the same for us under the new covenant of grace.

Jesus paid for all our sins and all the punishment due all our sins. What is left is training. That comes in the form of discipline (for our good) and not punishment. Punishment is to "pay" for something. David for instance was shown mercy but David still had to be punished., some required payment. What David did required a payment of his death. But God showed mercy and let him live but the sword was always going to be a part of his family. And we know what a dysfunctional family David had. Also, David lost his and Bathsheba's 1st son. David got punished a lot but he was a man after God's own heart.

Knowing who we are in Christ now under the new covenant that Jesus brought in of grace., is major to understanding how to apply the Bible verses to our lives. We have to always see the Bible in light of the cross. We have to see our lives and our provisions in light of the cross.

If we don't, we will apply the bad things that are happening in the world to us as if God was punishing us and training us by sickness and or death. And nothing could be farther than the truth.
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I agree with you. I should have added to my post a clarification about punishment. I was mostly addressing the use of the word punishment in the other post. I agree with you that as believers we are disciplined or chastened instead of punished. The way I look at it is that punishment is more of a judgement and discipline is more of a correction unto life. We are steered into a better direction through discipline. It's for our own benefit.

It is interesting to think about Job. He wasn't being punished by God, but all his friends were so quick to attribute his sufferings to the judgement of God on his sins.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#94
#94
PinkDiamond said:
I agree with you. I should have added to my post a clarification about punishment. I was mostly addressing the use of the word punishment in the other post. I agree with you that as believers we are disciplined or chastened instead of punished. The way I look at it is that punishment is more of a judgement and discipline is more of a correction unto life. We are steered into a better direction through discipline. It's for our own benefit.

It is interesting to think about Job. He wasn't being punished by God, but all his friends were so quick to attribute his sufferings to the judgement of God on his sins.
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I agree with you. And there is so much more to this whole aspect of training and the hows and whys of it. There is so much to learn about how He deals with us and for me it's knowing He loves us so much that we are always benefiting from His hand in our lives. Even when we are disciplined we feel His loving hand in the process. We see Him steering us in the right direction by closing off one direction while opening others.

There is a grateful joy in that. It also glues us sort of speak to His heart and makes us want to stick so close to Him for more of that kind of secure love and watch care. Who else can love us that way? Who else is watching out for us so we can learn and walk in wisdom and reap the benefits of such a life? Even Solomon knew the best gift was gaining wisdom. We can't get Godly wisdom from any other place but God in Christ.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#95
#95
Another thought to that is we don't just get a one time shot of direction. We have to come each day and seek Him. We can't coast on what we learned a year ago. It takes daily hearing and hearing and hearing of the same truths over and over again.

There is a wealth of truth in the Bible that will never be exhausted by us here. We all have experienced the truth of reading a certain chapter or verse and being blessed., only to see the same exact verse some time later that shows us yet a totally other gold nugget of truth to live by from that same verse
that applies to yet another answer we needed and prayed for.


 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#96
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#96
ladylynn said:
Another thought to that is we don't just get a one time shot of direction. We have to come each day and seek Him. We can't coast on what we learned a year ago. It takes daily hearing and hearing and hearing of the same truths over and over again.

There is a wealth of truth in the Bible that will never be exhausted by us here. We all have experienced the truth of reading a certain chapter or verse and being blessed., only to see the same exact verse some time later that shows us yet a totally other gold nugget of truth to live by from that same verse
that applies to yet another answer we needed and prayed for.


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Amen....I am sure that Isaac was glad that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God to him instead of what was just said in the past.

Abraham could have said . "I am obeying the word of God and I am slaying you". He would have been "dead" wrong ( pardon the pun )

Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Matt.4:4 - proceeds is in the present tense. We need to hear the "now" word of God in our everyday life.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#97
#97
That being another reason why I don't understand people limiting God based on their own understanding.
God is not limited but we certainly are! There are "heights and depths" of things IN Christ for us to still learn while we are here. There are truths yet to find out that will TOTALLY change our lives and our faith in God.

We should be moving forward in that kind of dynamic faith that sees Him in everything. In the jobs we have and the people that come into our lives. How do we gain discernment about our lives and about the people we meet?

How do we know who to trust and who is not to be trusted? What Bible interpretation to believe? God gives us discernment but we have to ask for it. And I'm seeing continually ask for it and read His Word for it while the Holy Spirit leads us into those truths we need for that day.

He also shows how our own heart can be mislead by trying to meet our own needs and not allowing Him to meet those needs. Many believers have needs and wants in life and allow them to over shadow their dependence on Christ to be the One to meet those needs and wants. They then try to meet them on their own and fall flat on their faces.

Some needs and wants are totally fine but how we gain them is the question of whether they are meant for us now or later. Many Christians fall into divorce or temptations based on their own feelings vs God's leading.

How to decipher the way to go?? Only by following as a sheep and asking Him to teach us and show us where we need to change our minds in repentance (not sorrowful but changing from one way of thinking to another) Most often there is no sorrow involved. Only training to go from one way we were used to going and seeing it's a totally other way He would have us go and trusting Him instead.

All the talk about crying and moaning and misery in all repentance is showing that those people do not know the other aspects of what the word repentance means for us believers. A change of mind does not always mean sorrow and regret and turning from some dreadful sin.
 
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heavenly_bound

Guest
#98
#98
Stephen63 said:
OK..... are all of us that aren't upper middle class, regardless of denomination & doctrine untrustworthy, or we walking in unbelief? CAUSE WE AIN'T GOT IT! Jesus didn't have it! Paul didn't have it! None of Paul's fellow laborers had it! The church at Jerusalem didn't have it! Christians in 3rd world countries don't have it! Prosperity doctrine is of the Devil, period.
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I thought you were going to quote scriptures to proof your argument! Just siting that this or that didn't have it, makes no point. The whole bible is full of passages that speak of us having wealth. Abraham, David, Solomon etc were rich!!
In fact the Lord Himself taught much about wealth(positively) during His earthly ministry!
Father God is looking for a matured believer who understands the purpose of wealth so as to entrust him with wealth for the running of His Kingdom!
You can only get what you are most persuaded off remember!!
 
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heavenly_bound

Guest
#99
#99
Stephen63 said:
OK..... are all of us that aren't upper middle class, regardless of denomination & doctrine untrustworthy, or we walking in unbelief? CAUSE WE AIN'T GOT IT! Jesus didn't have it! Paul didn't have it! None of Paul's fellow laborers had it! The church at Jerusalem didn't have it! Christians in 3rd world countries don't have it! Prosperity doctrine is of the Devil, period.
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hey look at this, Jesus, Paul, Barnabas etc had money!!! else how do you think they carried out their ministries?I can proof that with scriptures!!

Don't get me wrong here, i am completely against those whose preaching is money oriented only! Those who sell God's gift for money! They are those who have missed out on the purpose of wealth; and when the purpose of something is not understood, abuse is inevitable!!

Like i said before in another post; The problem with our Father is that He doesn't want to give wealth to any of His children who has not yet understood the purpose of money in the hands of a believer!! He doesn't mind His children possessing wealth! He minds wealth possessing them!!
 
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masmpg

Guest
#100
#100
eph610 said:
I do not see how my question was even answered...
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Your question was "How does God punish a New Covenant believer? What does that look like today?"

I believe God punishes His children for a reason. To bring them back to Him, just like He has done from the beginning of time. That I why I referenced history. When the "new covenant" believer, whatever that is, steps out of line they are punished to bring them back, just like the prodigal son, whose punishment was wasting all his money and having to eat with the pigs, but thank God he never leaves us nor forsakes us because the voice of the Holy Spirit worked on the prodigal's heart and convicted him to return to his father. If that does not give you an idea of how God punishes His children perhaps you might want to listen to the Holy Spirit in your life. I do not mean any offense by this, but God sent the comforter, and His job is found in John:16:7&8: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:" When we listen to the Holy Spirit we are convicted, or blessed, or even judged. Have you ever been convicted of your sins? I can answer that whether you admit it or not, the ONLY way one comes to God is because HE calls us. God seeks us we do not, because of sinful nature, seek Him
I hope that answers it.
 
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