The Rapture

carolb · Aug 30, 2015

The book of Ezekiel tells us more about the end times, than the book of Revelation. The subject matter is that of the antichrist. The falsechrist comes first at the sixth trump claiming he is Christ and that he has come to fly (rapture) you out of this world to save you. Many will believe him and sadly be fooled. You do not want to be the first one taken in the field. God says I am against THOSE who teach my children they can fly to save their souls. Ezekiel chapter 13, but start with the beginning of the book, in order to pick up the subject matter.

popeye · Aug 30, 2015

carolb said:

The book of Ezekiel tells us more about the end times, than the book of Revelation. The subject matter is that of the antichrist. The falsechrist comes first at the sixth trump claiming he is Christ and that he has come to fly (rapture) you out of this world to save you. Many will believe him and sadly be fooled. You do not want to be the first one taken in the field. God says I am against THOSE who teach my children they can fly to save their souls. Ezekiel chapter 13, but start with the beginning of the book, in order to pick up the subject matter.

Verses???

The AC kills ALL w/o the mark early in the GT.

Again postrib is poorly thought out

gkroo · Aug 30, 2015

One Enoch was taken, Elijah was taken, Ezekiel was taken. We don't know about Melchizedek or Eve. Eve may have died giving birth to Seth. Jesus was resurrected and we are told that many in the graves arose. Moses died. Throwing around the words like harvest.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

After the the severing of the wicked, is that when the rapture happens?

popeye · Aug 30, 2015

AVoiceintheWilderness said:

I guess you failed to see,as i pointed out,that there are 2 heaven references?????

You also accuse me of being 'dirty",when you did in fact play it out as if there is no heaven reference?

There are no angels gathering in 1 thes 4. There is no gathering from heaven in 1 thes 4.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout............

I am fully aware of the "from the uttermost part of the earth" reference.

I am saying it IS NOT the rapture for several reasons. And BTW,prove to me it is.
Show me angels apart from Christ GATHERING/DOING THE GATHERING in 1 thes 4 or in mat 25 ,(the gathering of the bride)

Read it again with the understanding that the lineage of Hagar and Ishmael are in fact descendants AND COVENANT but are not God's pple or his chosen race.

popeye · Aug 30, 2015

gkroo said:

The GWT judgement is after the millineum.

That is the wheat/tares.LOF

Many wicked are destroyed in the GT
Many are destroyed at the 2nd coming
There is another battle where the wicked and satan,previously bound ,is loosed and they are also destroyed,but the GWT judgement and the LOF are last,after the millineum,after the GWT judgement....you can look it up. All true.

carolb · Aug 30, 2015

Ezekiel chp 13, begins vs. 17 thru 20 of the Hebrew manuscripts.

popeye · Aug 30, 2015

carolb said:

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

That word "fly" means "ones budding"

Your post makes no sense,please clarify

Is · Aug 30, 2015

AVoiceintheWilderness said:

Alrighty.

To begin with Matt.introduces the reader to the coming Christ (Messiah) to Israel as their King.It occupies a unique place in the canon of Scripture, it has a Jewish flavor of such intensity that little in it can be applied doctrinally to Gentiles or to the Gentile believer. Matthew's Jewish slant is apparent on every page of the book with the beginning of the genealogy with Abraham, in the very first chapter, as to the purpose of the author.

He is giving "the gospel" from the standpoint of an Old Testament Hebrew who is anxiously awaiting the appearance of the "annointed one", the Messiah. It's a logical link between Malachi and the events about to take place around the the first appearence of our Incarnate Lord.

We are coming from thirty-nine Jewish books which concern the "calling-out" of a chosen people from Abraham, to twenty-seven books which deal primarily with Gentiles called out among the nations, "to be a people for God's name (Acts 15:14).
It is fitting that a "gospel" should be inserted which would give us a bridge, or transition, from a Jewish economy to the Chruch composed of Jew and Gentile.

1). There are no Christians present (24:3)
2). The land being discussed is Palestine (24:16)
3). The audience addressed are Jews (24:1-3)
4). They are then observing Old Testament Law (24:15-20)
5). They are worshipping in a temple in Jerusalem (24:15, 2Thess.2)
6). They are not spiritual Jews (Ro.2:29)
7). The Christian already has a promise that he will endure to the end if that is what is under discussion (1Cor.1:7-8)
8). The Second Coming follows the "end" in this passage, not the death of the believer (Matt.24:14,21,29)
It's apparent that Matt.24:13 has nothing to do, directly or indirectly, with the salvation of anyone in the age of "grace", and it was never intended to be used by anyone, under any condition, for any purpose, in that manner.
Like hebrews 3:6, 14, a period of time is being discussed, and this period of time is defined in the immediate context so that there can be no possible latitude in applying the verse.
Verse 14 locates the "end" as the end of that period of time, wherein the "gospel of the kingdom" is preached. Since this gospel is not the gospel of "the grace of God" (1Cor.15:1-6) given to the Christian (Gal.1:11,12) by the apostle to the Gentiles (Rom.2:16), it most certainly would have no bearing on the life of any Christian.
"This gospel of the kingdom" Matthew defines in a score of passages.....(Matt.3:2, 4:17, 4:23, 8:12. 9:35. 10:7, etc., is in every case the literal, physical, visible, Messianic, Davidic, kingdom promised to the Son of David, who will reign on David's throne at Jerusalem. No Chrisitian is involved. No salvation is involved in this age, and no church is connected with it.
9). Christians don't worship on the sabbath (Matt.24:20)
10).Nowhere did Jesus warn Christians not to have children (24:19)
11).Nowhere are any Christians addressed in the passage. The word "Christian" does not appear in the Bbile in usage till nearly ten years after the Lord has returned to Glory (Acts 11)

12). The gathering of the "elect" is the rapture at the end of the tribulation (Jacobs Trouble) of the Jewish saints.

"Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him." Ps.50:2,3

"And except those days shoudl be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Matt.24:22

"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. Isaiah 45:4

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem. Isaiah 27:13

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever" Rev.11:15

"And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it,and my servants shall dwell there." Isaiah 65:9 (Matt.24:31)

13). "Now learn a parable or the fig tree" (24:32). The fig tree is the tree of self-righteousness. It is the only tree that God ever cursed (Gen.3; Matt.21:19-20). It stands for religious Israel without the fruit (Jer.24:2,5,8), exactly as it stood in Eden for man's attempt top cover his righteousness with dead works (fig leaf, get it?) and not fruit (Luke 13:6-9).
The parable speaks of the revival of national Israel. "When his branch is yet tender," that was fulfilled in 1948. "Trees" in the OT are likened to KINGS and KINGDOMS (Judg.9:7-14; Ezek.15, 17, 19, 31; Dan.4). The FIG TREE is Israel.
(24:33). "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things." The "these things" refer to the events in vs.15, 20-21, 24, 27, 29, and 31. The "it" in v.33 in "that it is near" can only refer to the Second Advent of Our Lord.

gkroo · Aug 30, 2015

carolb said:

This is the verse, carol.

Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Seeing that the verse is in the chapter that speaks of creatures coming out of a whirlwind and

Eze 1:21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

There seems to a point about the false salvation.

gkroo · Aug 30, 2015

popeye said:

פּרח
pârach
paw-rakh'
A primitive root; to break forth as a bud, that is, bloom; generally to spread; specifically to fly (as extending the wings); figuratively to flourish: - X abroad, X abundantly, blossom, break forth (out), bud, flourish, make fly, grow, spread, spring (up).

So, it does mean 'to fly.' Specifically.

tanach · Aug 30, 2015

That is a good point. You could narrow it down even further as we are suddenly supposed to be raptured without warning according to some Pre Tribs. Does that mean you can be left behind because you had a lapse of faith one minute before the
rapture takes place? How ready is ready? I always thought that salvation made you ready. Supposing you are one of the dead in Christ who are meant to rise first. Is your readiness backdated to the last breath you took as a Christian, Do you get backdated tribulation if you don't make the grade?

gkroo · Aug 30, 2015

That has to do with the cushioned seats that the so-called saviors are sitting in. When carol talks about the sixth angel with the trumpet, the angel releases 2,000,000 soldiers to wipe out a third of humans on earth. But, there is something wrong with Rev 9:15 and 9:18 when it talks about the four angels loosed by the sixth angel with the trumpet.

Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Is that just a typo? A slip of the tongue?

KennethC · Aug 30, 2015

gkroo said:

That has to do with the cushioned seats that the so-called saviors are sitting in. When carol talks about the sixth angel with the trumpet, the angel releases 2,000,000 soldiers to wipe out a third of humans on earth. But, there is something wrong with Rev 9:15 and 9:18 when it talks about the four angels loosed by the sixth angel with the trumpet.

Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Is that just a typo? A slip of the tongue?

No the 3 in verse 18 is in response to the 3 plagues mentioned in the previous verse of fire, smoke, and brimstone.

Ahwatukee · Aug 30, 2015

Greetings gkroo,

In understanding scripture, we must go to the source. I personally have always hated the word "rapture" and that because it does not appear in scripture. The word that you want to pay attention to is "Harpazo" which is translated as "caught up" used in 1 Thes.4:17. Harpazo is the same word used when Paul said that he was "caught up" to the third heaven and is the same word used regarding the male child Rev.12 who is "snatched up" to God and to his throne. The other words in the context of these scriptures such clouds, air, God's throne, etc., all lend to the understanding of ascending upward.

harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively, force suddenly exercised

The word "Harpazo" combined with the words "Clouds" and "Air" as used in 1 Thes.4:17, gives the read a clear
picture of what is to take place.

pottersclay · Aug 30, 2015

I realize some have a hard time with believing the rapture, let alone that it will happen in pre-trib the best advice I can give you is to stock up on Dramamine take once a day ( because we don't know the hour) because it's going to happen.

KennethC · Aug 30, 2015

Why is that people want to always use the scriptures speaking on His second coming that says we will not know the hour and the day to refer it to the rapture ???

But then in the same breath they try to separate the two as different events that happen years apart ???

The not knowing the day and hour is about the Lord's second coming, and in scriptures it clearly shows that second coming is after the Great Tribulation. There is no scripture that speaks of a gap between the two, as it shows our gathering to Him is at the same time as His coming. Those that people try to use from Revelation to show people in heaven already it says they were slain/killed not raptured away.

gkroo · Aug 30, 2015

tanach said:

Going back to the word that means 'to fly' does mean like a bud breaking forth. That also points out the false salvation and it also brings out the third of mankind slain. The Bible talks about a planned deception.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Is the rapture before the deception? What is the deception? I think the battle is the deception. The deception could be materialism. But you talk about 'sudden rapture.' Is that Jesus' thief in the night?

gkroo · Aug 30, 2015

KennethC said:

So, a third part is killed by the four angels and a third part is killed by the plagues. So that leaves a third. Is that the 144,000?

Ahwatukee · Aug 30, 2015

Hi gkroo,

If I may jump in here. A fourth of the earth's in habitants will be killed as a result of the fourth seal, which appears to be an accumulation of the first three seals. Later at the sixth trumpet, a third of the earth's inhabitants are killed by that plague. Based on a population of seven billion, adding a fourth and a third would put the fatalities at over four billion people, just with those two. The 144,000 will come from the twelve tribes of Israel (gives birth to) who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. This group has nothing to do with the percentage of fatalities that will be taking place via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements. In fact, at around the middle of that last seven years, scripture states that they will be caught up to God and his throne out of the dragon's/Satan's reach.

Hope this is helpful

KennethC · Aug 30, 2015

gkroo said:

You are making it more complicated then it is; The 4 angels release the 3 plagues on earth to kill a 1/3 of man kind or around 2.3 billion people.

The 1/3 in verse 18 is the same 1/3 in verse 15, they are not separate events, and if it only left 144,000 alive who would those 144,000 be ministering to ???

The Rapture

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