The tares (weeds) are born-again, but are going to hell
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Wheat is used to make bread (speaking of symbols). Jesus is the Bread of life and we eat and drink of His life, nothing else do we depend on for eternal life.
Tares would be those who sneak in to assemblies, planted there by the enemy to cause problems. Tares cant make bread.
But, we have promises that what He has started in our life, He will continue until a certain day. I would think that day would be the day of wrath. So, I can't see how tares can be born of God Zach.
I do know that in certain places where Holy Spirit is moving in mighty acts...those of the occult will gather for the purpose of stirring up trouble. They look like us, they sit among us. But, they are not of us. They may even be "nice". It takes the gift of discernment to spot them.
And they try to touch the ones who move in power.
The only other option I see is what I previously posted, but false brethren is one who needs their minds renewed. The Jews being of the laws had trouble with grace.
Does anyone else see it this way? Ive never really studied this out.
Tares would be those who sneak in to assemblies, planted there by the enemy to cause problems. Tares cant make bread.
But, we have promises that what He has started in our life, He will continue until a certain day. I would think that day would be the day of wrath. So, I can't see how tares can be born of God Zach.
I do know that in certain places where Holy Spirit is moving in mighty acts...those of the occult will gather for the purpose of stirring up trouble. They look like us, they sit among us. But, they are not of us. They may even be "nice". It takes the gift of discernment to spot them.
And they try to touch the ones who move in power.
The only other option I see is what I previously posted, but false brethren is one who needs their minds renewed. The Jews being of the laws had trouble with grace.
Does anyone else see it this way? Ive never really studied this out.
That is great! The real wheat are the ones that speak of the life of Christ as our true Bread of Life. They speak of His love and grace for them - they build each other up in the Lord and encourage us to believe in all that He has done for us.
That He can be trusted. That He alone is our life, love and light. Without Him we can do nothing. He is the Vine - it is His life that supplies the "sap" in order to bear His fruit on us - the branches.
That He can be trusted. That He alone is our life, love and light. Without Him we can do nothing. He is the Vine - it is His life that supplies the "sap" in order to bear His fruit on us - the branches.
ZacharyB - your suggestion is putting together different models of the world and coming
to the wrong conclusion.
The seed and the sower, the seed is the word of God.
The word when it takes root it brings life in the heart of the believer.
It grows and creates more words of God that spread to others etc.
The weeds are ideas, concepts, unredeemed hearts not part of the Kingdom.
You cannot have a seed that produces a plant that is not Gods plant if from the Lord.
Some of the seed will never break into the heart and will die.
So mixing the ideas simply does not work at any level.
A good tree cannot become a bad tree or a bad tree a good tree.
Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Matt 7:17-18
to the wrong conclusion.
The seed and the sower, the seed is the word of God.
The word when it takes root it brings life in the heart of the believer.
It grows and creates more words of God that spread to others etc.
The weeds are ideas, concepts, unredeemed hearts not part of the Kingdom.
You cannot have a seed that produces a plant that is not Gods plant if from the Lord.
Some of the seed will never break into the heart and will die.
So mixing the ideas simply does not work at any level.
A good tree cannot become a bad tree or a bad tree a good tree.
Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Matt 7:17-18
Now occasionally people who have been possessed have come to church but they
do not stay long.
The above statement is said simply to say it is our duty to ascertain the spiritual
foundations of others, because some are truly evil.
Well my friends, if the presence of God in your meetings is not enough to discourage
these people, then God may not be there or be so hidden they are not troubled.
The problem is all churchs is always our personal walks with the Lord and with each
other. That is where our focus should be, walking in love and faithfullness before the
Lord, not in attempting to discern and condemn others unless for obvious sin.
do not stay long.
The above statement is said simply to say it is our duty to ascertain the spiritual
foundations of others, because some are truly evil.
Well my friends, if the presence of God in your meetings is not enough to discourage
these people, then God may not be there or be so hidden they are not troubled.
The problem is all churchs is always our personal walks with the Lord and with each
other. That is where our focus should be, walking in love and faithfullness before the
Lord, not in attempting to discern and condemn others unless for obvious sin.
Ok. When you say they nearly destroyed your church, how did this manifest itself, and what did
or did not the church do?
Maybe I am naieve, but walking in the Spirit and showing love to people often you realise who
are the problem people and possible ways the church can contain them, so unless the church
was not very functional how could they have such a large impact?
or did not the church do?
Maybe I am naieve, but walking in the Spirit and showing love to people often you realise who
are the problem people and possible ways the church can contain them, so unless the church
was not very functional how could they have such a large impact?
A mother & two daughters came. The two daughters worked their way into the youth group. The mother sang specials & would go into what some would call a Holy Ghost fit, but it wasn't.
Letters & notes started spreading thru the church accusing the youth leader (woman) of being too playful with the teen boys. It got very bad. The pastor's wife was in a Monday night prayer meeting when she had a vision of a 3 headed snake. It was them.
My future mother-in-law knew about it before the vision & told me about it. I saw first-hand the two girls dance around during services in a very disturbing way. All three wore long dresses, kinda oneness style. They always lived questionable lifestyles, never being "like they were" in church.
Time went on & one of the sisters married my best friend, & not long afterward had a demon cast out of her.
She straightened up for a while, but went back to her old ways, cheating on her husband with another woman.
She left her husband & son twice, & the third time she divorced him.
To this day, both sisters are practicing homosexuals & don't go to church. I don't know about the mother.
The reason much damage was done was because after the pastor's wife told him, he either didn't believe it or simply did nothing. One of the girls were caught leaving a note(only one there), but nothing was done. Several people left our church because of it.
A couple of years or so later, the pastor's wife died of cancer. I will stop here, because these are the important facts. Issues in the church continued after that, & eventually my wife & I had to leave, because our shepherd wouldn't fight for the sheep.
It was one of those things where you had to be there to believe it.
Letters & notes started spreading thru the church accusing the youth leader (woman) of being too playful with the teen boys. It got very bad. The pastor's wife was in a Monday night prayer meeting when she had a vision of a 3 headed snake. It was them.
My future mother-in-law knew about it before the vision & told me about it. I saw first-hand the two girls dance around during services in a very disturbing way. All three wore long dresses, kinda oneness style. They always lived questionable lifestyles, never being "like they were" in church.
Time went on & one of the sisters married my best friend, & not long afterward had a demon cast out of her.
She straightened up for a while, but went back to her old ways, cheating on her husband with another woman.
She left her husband & son twice, & the third time she divorced him.
To this day, both sisters are practicing homosexuals & don't go to church. I don't know about the mother.
The reason much damage was done was because after the pastor's wife told him, he either didn't believe it or simply did nothing. One of the girls were caught leaving a note(only one there), but nothing was done. Several people left our church because of it.
A couple of years or so later, the pastor's wife died of cancer. I will stop here, because these are the important facts. Issues in the church continued after that, & eventually my wife & I had to leave, because our shepherd wouldn't fight for the sheep.
It was one of those things where you had to be there to believe it.
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Jesus explained to his disciples that He was the Sower, the World was the field, the good seed was the children of the Kingdom of God and Satan was he that sowed the tares/wicked ones.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Most Post-Tribulation advocates point this parable out as one of the main reasons they believe that the Rapture is Post-Tribulation. But they fail to understand, if the Rapture is as they picture it, when they go to meet Jesus and the air, and come straight back down to earth, they are Raptured before the wicked are bound up also, just as if the Rapture was Pre-tribulation. So what gives ?
Well Jesus came to die for all men, but his ministry dealt with Israel only, he even stated this fact, "I am come only to the lost sheep of Israel". So the Wheat is Israel, who are turned back to God by Elijah before the Day of the Lord comes.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,
So the Wheat is All Israel who becomes a Christian Nation before the the Day of the Lord comes.
All of the Tares will be destroyed by Jesus at the Second Coming, or bundled together in graves, awaiting their judgment after the Thousand Year Millennial reign. Then the Wheat (all Israel) will be harvested into the Masters Barn. The Church is already in the Masters Barn, they were in Heaven marrying the Lamb and come back with Jesus.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Most Post-Tribulation advocates point this parable out as one of the main reasons they believe that the Rapture is Post-Tribulation. But they fail to understand, if the Rapture is as they picture it, when they go to meet Jesus and the air, and come straight back down to earth, they are Raptured before the wicked are bound up also, just as if the Rapture was Pre-tribulation. So what gives ?
Well Jesus came to die for all men, but his ministry dealt with Israel only, he even stated this fact, "I am come only to the lost sheep of Israel". So the Wheat is Israel, who are turned back to God by Elijah before the Day of the Lord comes.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,
So the Wheat is All Israel who becomes a Christian Nation before the the Day of the Lord comes.
All of the Tares will be destroyed by Jesus at the Second Coming, or bundled together in graves, awaiting their judgment after the Thousand Year Millennial reign. Then the Wheat (all Israel) will be harvested into the Masters Barn. The Church is already in the Masters Barn, they were in Heaven marrying the Lamb and come back with Jesus.
Thanks for this.
I worked with a woman who had a particular personality trait of pushing things to a limit
and never co-operating but always appearing to. Over time it made me nuts, having to
supervise her as her manager.
So in a church setting things can get very heated over absolutely nothing and equally some
massive issues remain hidden.
But when people have open hearts and sexual orientation is something talked about, people
have testimonies of their own walks things become very different. But then again some are
so scared of their own stories, even as pastors this would be a no go area. I can see how the
enemy could exploit such a situation.
I worked with a woman who had a particular personality trait of pushing things to a limit
and never co-operating but always appearing to. Over time it made me nuts, having to
supervise her as her manager.
So in a church setting things can get very heated over absolutely nothing and equally some
massive issues remain hidden.
But when people have open hearts and sexual orientation is something talked about, people
have testimonies of their own walks things become very different. But then again some are
so scared of their own stories, even as pastors this would be a no go area. I can see how the
enemy could exploit such a situation.
