The words of "others"

[KennethC]

OK here is a question that pertains to this subject of "teachers". Since God has ordained some to be teaches ect ect do we think God still inspires the writing of these people He has ordained? DISCLAIMER; I am not saying in the same way that the Bible is the inspired Word of God but that God has and does inspire certain writings. I am also not saying all of the writings someone may have writen but certain parts of it. For example like the same way God inspires certain sermons by pastors.

He has always inspired others in what they do and write, which is why we can not just focus on what is in the bible.

I will catch some flack on this but;

Remember the word of God says the scriptures were written by men who were inspired by God, nowhere does it say the putting together of the bible we have was. I say this because there are other writings from the early Apostles such as Barnabas that is not in the bible.

We must ask ourselves why, because the bible shows Barnabas and Paul worked side by side at first until the went there separate ways to give the good news in different areas.

 

[convallaria]

If you ask me, then Peter gave a pretty thorough description of "false teachers" in II Peter chapter 2:

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds); The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (II Peter 2:1-22)

I'd venture to say that the aforementioned "damnable heresies" which are propagated by "false teachers" are not only prevalent throughout much of professing Christendom, but also that some of them are prevalent right here on this forum.

I totally agree, sad to say!

 

[convallaria]

OK here is a question that pertains to this subject of "teachers". Since God has ordained some to be teaches ect ect do we think God still inspires the writing of these people He has ordained? DISCLAIMER; I am not saying in the same way that the Bible is the inspired Word of God but that God has and does inspire certain writings. I am also not saying all of the writings someone may have writen but certain parts of it. For example like the same way God inspires certain sermons by pastors.

Short answer, YES!
I feel I have to keep emphasizing that those who minister in these things are first born again. Once born again we are all on God's map somewhere in ministry and in giftings: it is not for a special elite, but for the body of Christ, amen.

 

[convallaria]

He has always inspired others in what they do and write, which is why we can not just focus on what is in the bible.

I will catch some flack on this but;

Remember the word of God says the scriptures were written by men who were inspired by God, nowhere does it say the putting together of the bible we have was. I say this because there are other writings from the early Apostles such as Barnabas that is not in the bible.

We must ask ourselves why, because the bible shows Barnabas and Paul worked side by side at first until the went there separate ways to give the good news in different areas.

I tend to leave those things aside that raise questions I can't answer. We are talking a huge swathe of history and a constant assault on the word of God through the centuries, but nevertheless what we have of the word of God, we know is true. I find that totally awesome. Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. So in all this time He has protected the power of His word, and raised up ministers in spite of what the religious pretenders have tried to do!

I see the hand of God on you!

 

[KennethC]

I tend to leave those things aside that raise questions I can't answer. We are talking a huge swathe of history and a constant assault on the word of God through the centuries, but nevertheless what we have of the word of God, we know is true. I find that totally awesome. Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. So in all this time He has protected the power of His word, and raised up ministers in spite of what the religious pretenders have tried to do!

I see the hand of God on you!

Yes His true undefiled word is still around today but it is getting less and less taught throughout the churches, as they are moving forward to teaching things society accepts as a whole instead of standing firm. I see doctrines that teach all who call Jesus Lord gets eternal life, but Jesus Himself said this is not so.

There are even multiple scriptures that say those who name Jesus as Lord are to depart from iniquity (sinful ways).
How many times do we hear this is impossible, we will always sin constantly everyday, and even after being born again people still put limitations on those who believe ???

Lord Jesus said all things are possible for those who believe (Mark 9:23) !!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Does not the bible say...Iron sharpeneth iron???

 

[elf3]

Yes the Bible was "put together" by man but we must also realize that because it is God's Word He only had them put His correct words into the Bible. I personally feel that other writings that were not put in the Bible were not the true "God breathed" Words of God. If we start saying that certain other writings should have been added then would that have been a "mistake" by God when He had man compile His Words?

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Yes the Bible was "put together" by man but we must also realize that because it is God's Word He only had them put His correct words into the Bible. I personally feel that other writings that were not put in the Bible were not the true "God breathed" Words of God. If we start saying that certain other writings should have been added then would that have been a "mistake" by God when He had man compile His Words?

I absolutely agree with this, there is a reason these scripts aren't in the Bible, maybe their authenticity was not without doubt.

 

[KennethC]

Yes the Bible was "put together" by man but we must also realize that because it is God's Word He only had them put His correct words into the Bible. I personally feel that other writings that were not put in the Bible were not the true "God breathed" Words of God. If we start saying that certain other writings should have been added then would that have been a "mistake" by God when He had man compile His Words?

I absolutely agree with this, there is a reason these scripts aren't in the Bible, maybe their authenticity was not without doubt.

Then explain to me this that at the councils they had disputes among each other on which books to allow and which ones not to allow ? Then even after the canon was put together those same disputes still carried on, as we can see the evidence of that still to this day. As we still see people saying that Hebrews, James, and 1 John are not for us !!!

Those three books being disputed stems from the debate at the council meeting to determine the bible we now have today.

 

[Angela53510]

Besides the many Bibles I have, I also have commentaries, theology books and Christian books on every possible topic. I read a lot, and when someone recommends a book, I usually read the book reviews and order the book on-line if it seems like a good book, especially if I know and trust the person.

However, in this forum, I am more likely to just quote the Bible, which seems to be the only thing that holds any weight around here. But I do believe we can learn a lot from teachers, if we are carefully to judge against the Bible, while praying that the Holy Spirit would lead and guide us. (Not TO to the Holy Spirit, Stephen!)

The one thing that really bothers me in this forum are those that continually put down a Seminary education, who have basically no education in anything! These people do not understand what intensive study, around godly men and women, with inspired teachers can do for you. It is not just about head knowledge, but about true spiritual transformation, as God works with the community of believers to teach and change hearts and lives.

People with a seminary or Bible college education are not special or better than anyone else. But as the OP says, God has ordained teachers, and the value of a Biblical education is that we get to sit under these men and women of God and hear different perspectives, but more than that, dig much deeper into the Word, the context and the breadth and length of God's Word in a way that you simply cannot get from sitting at home and reading your Bible and studying with archaic Bible tools like Strong's!

I still go back and take courses at Seminary regularly, since I am an alumni, and get the courses for free. I was very sad this spring when I could not go take the 2 Corinithians course by George Guthrie, because I was too sick to travel. But because I do believe in the importance of education being life long, I will continue to go back and take courses, and to read books written by great teachers and preachers.

 

[Billyd]

When I do a verse by verse study of any scripture, I begin with prayer, then open four to twelve Bible translations, two dictionaries, a Hebrew/Greek to English App, and three to twelve books/commentaries. I also have three trusted pastors/teachers a phone call away. What always amazes me is how several different opinions work together to provide the message that God has for me through this study. When I finish my study, I thank God for the answer that he has provided me.

What bothers me here is the large number of people who believe that they are experts on any topic posted, and everyone else is wrong, or disagree with everything posted. I don't care who you are, everything that you are posting, regardless of how you believe you arrived at it, is your opinion to all of us who read it. Keep that in mind when we respond with our opinion.

 

[KennethC]

Besides the many Bibles I have, I also have commentaries, theology books and Christian books on every possible topic. I read a lot, and when someone recommends a book, I usually read the book reviews and order the book on-line if it seems like a good book, especially if I know and trust the person.

However, in this forum, I am more likely to just quote the Bible, which seems to be the only thing that holds any weight around here. But I do believe we can learn a lot from teachers, if we are carefully to judge against the Bible, while praying that the Holy Spirit would lead and guide us. (Not TO to the Holy Spirit, Stephen!)

The one thing that really bothers me in this forum are those that continually put down a Seminary education, who have basically no education in anything! These people do not understand what intensive study, around godly men and women, with inspired teachers can do for you. It is not just about head knowledge, but about true spiritual transformation, as God works with the community of believers to teach and change hearts and lives.

People with a seminary or Bible college education are not special or better than anyone else. But as the OP says, God has ordained teachers, and the value of a Biblical education is that we get to sit under these men and women of God and hear different perspectives, but more than that, dig much deeper into the Word, the context and the breadth and length of God's Word in a way that you simply cannot get from sitting at home and reading your Bible and studying with archaic Bible tools like Strong's!

I still go back and take courses at Seminary regularly, since I am an alumni, and get the courses for free. I was very sad this spring when I could not go take the 2 Corinithians course by George Guthrie, because I was too sick to travel. But because I do believe in the importance of education being life long, I will continue to go back and take courses, and to read books written by great teachers and preachers.

It is not about putting Seminary classes or bible college courses down all together, but there seems to be a lot that do come from both that think after 4-6 years they know it all and nobody else can reveal anything to them by the Holy Spirit because of that pride.

I have seen a number of people pride themselves on the Seminary classes of college courses they took, but yet they are way off the mark on what the word actually says. This stems because those classes over complicate the word of God, and make it seem like only those that take these courses no the truth.

The first 4 centuries of the early church there was no such thing as Seminary classes or college courses.

They were given their guidance by God through the Holy Spirit alone, as the scriptures even say He will still do for believers. Yet this has gotten lost over time and the lines blurred of why the Lord sent them to others, as the scriptures make no mention that it was for education in the word. It does say and show however it was for edification and guidance in other matters.

 

[Angela53510]

He has always inspired others in what they do and write, which is why we can not just focus on what is in the bible.

I will catch some flack on this but;

Remember the word of God says the scriptures were written by men who were inspired by God, nowhere does it say the putting together of the bible we have was. I say this because there are other writings from the early Apostles such as Barnabas that is not in the bible.

We must ask ourselves why, because the bible shows Barnabas and Paul worked side by side at first until the went there separate ways to give the good news in different areas.

Kenneth, this is the exact reason that I would dispute many doctrinal points with you. Because you do not have an education, you do not understand how the canon was formed, nor what the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is about.

When you come out with statements like this, you completely negate any kind of credibilty you might have had. The Gospel of Barnabas is a Middle Ages invention, and basically preaches a Muslim gospel, with Judas dying on the cross instead of Jesus, just as the Qur'an purports. And it didn't take an MDiv to figure that out - just a few google searches!

""The discovery of the original Barnabas Bible will now undermine the Christian Church and its authority and will revolutionize the religion in the world," it added.

The document also makes other allegations that contradict Christianity, such as the claim that Jesus ascended to heaven alive as a prophet, and not as the Son of God. Christian scholars have dismissed the text, however, arguing that it's a forgery.

"If the document was written in the fifth of sixth century, it couldn't very well have been written by someone who was traveling with St. Paul about 400 years earlier," Catholic World News editor Phil Lawler said back in 2012.

"It must have been written by someone who was claiming to represent St. Barnabas. Should we accept that claim? Another good question."

The document is most probably a "hoax," and pointed out multiple historical inaccuracies. It also warned that the text is bound to cause problems among Christian-Muslim communities.

"This extraordinary discovery is probably a hoax, the work of a forger who, according to some, could have been a European Jewish scholar from the Middle Ages."

'Gospel of Barnabas' That Claims Judas Was Crucified Instead of Jesus Is a 'Fake,' Says Coptic Patriarch Tawadros

 

[KennethC]

When I do a verse by verse study of any scripture, I begin with prayer, then open four to twelve Bible translations, two dictionaries, a Hebrew/Greek to English App, and three to twelve books/commentaries. I also have three trusted pastors/teachers a phone call away. What always amazes me is how several different opinions work together to provide the message that God has for me through this study. When I finish my study, I thank God for the answer that he has provided me.

What bothers me here is the large number of people who believe that they are experts on any topic posted, and everyone else is wrong, or disagree with everything posted. I don't care who you are, everything that you are posting, regardless of how you believe you arrived at it, is your opinion to all of us who read it. Keep that in mind when we respond with our opinion.

I agree with what you have said here but you left out one critical peace of study, The Holy Spirit !!!

For the word of God says to ask in prayer and He will reveal that knowledge to us by the Holy Spirit, so if the Holy Spirit is leading you in all of those materials before you I have no problem with that. However if you put those materials before the Holy Spirit's guidance then the way of private interpretation is where you would be lead.

 

[KennethC]

Kenneth, this is the exact reason that I would dispute many doctrinal points with you. Because you do not have an education, you do not understand how the canon was formed, nor what the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is about.

When you come out with statements like this, you completely negate any kind of credibilty you might have had. The Gospel of Barnabas is a Middle Ages invention, and basically preaches a Muslim gospel, with Judas dying on the cross instead of Jesus, just as the Qur'an purports. And it didn't take an MDiv to figure that out - just a few google searches!

""The discovery of the original Barnabas Bible will now undermine the Christian Church and its authority and will revolutionize the religion in the world," it added.

The document also makes other allegations that contradict Christianity, such as the claim that Jesus ascended to heaven alive as a prophet, and not as the Son of God. Christian scholars have dismissed the text, however, arguing that it's a forgery.

"If the document was written in the fifth of sixth century, it couldn't very well have been written by someone who was traveling with St. Paul about 400 years earlier," Catholic World News editor Phil Lawler said back in 2012.

"It must have been written by someone who was claiming to represent St. Barnabas. Should we accept that claim? Another good question."

The document is most probably a "hoax," and pointed out multiple historical inaccuracies. It also warned that the text is bound to cause problems among Christian-Muslim communities.

"This extraordinary discovery is probably a hoax, the work of a forger who, according to some, could have been a European Jewish scholar from the Middle Ages."

'Gospel of Barnabas' That Claims Judas Was Crucified Instead of Jesus Is a 'Fake,' Says Coptic Patriarch Tawadros

I will stop you there because I have done a study on how the bible was put together, therefor this is a false accusation.

I am not speaking on the Gospel of Barnabas which is false writing and it seems that some of you always jump to that conclusion.

There are writings from the 2nd century attributed to Barnabas and I have used quotes from that manuscript a couple of times on here.

As there is also the "Epistle of Barnabas" and the "Acts of Barnabas" that have been dated in the 2nd century.

 

[Angela53510]

It is not about putting Seminary classes or bible college courses down all together, but there seems to be a lot that do come from both that think after 4-6 years they know it all and nobody else can reveal anything to them by the Holy Spirit because of that pride.

I have seen a number of people pride themselves on the Seminary classes of college courses they took, but yet they are way off the mark on what the word actually says. This stems because those classes over complicate the word of God, and make it seem like only those that take these courses no the truth.

The first 4 centuries of the early church there was no such thing as Seminary classes or college courses.

They were given their guidance by God through the Holy Spirit alone, as the scriptures even say He will still do for believers. Yet this has gotten lost over time and the lines blurred of why the Lord sent them to others, as the scriptures make no mention that it was for education in the word. It does say and show however it was for edification and guidance in other matters.

The only pride I see in this forum is people who put down education, and then consider themselves Biblical experts, with no background in original languages or hermeneutics or any of the other important disciplines people study at institutions of higher learning. To say nothing of being around spiritually mature people.

 

[AceMichaels]

The only pride I see in this forum is people who put down education, and then consider themselves Biblical experts, with no background in original languages or hermeneutics or any of the other important disciplines people study at institutions of higher learning. To say nothing of being around spiritually mature people.

I have seen the same thing. My assesment is either pride or jealousy

 

[Billyd]

I agree with what you have said here but you left out one critical peace of study, The Holy Spirit !!!

For the word of God says to ask in prayer and He will reveal that knowledge to us by the Holy Spirit, so if the Holy Spirit is leading you in all of those materials before you I have no problem with that. However if you put those materials before the Holy Spirit's guidance then the way of private interpretation is where you would be lead.

Ken, I didn't leave leave out the Holy Spirit. Who do you think guides any of us through our scripture studies?

I have one question for you. Do you believe that you can perfectly understand every word written in the Bible without using the other resources that God so richly provides?

 

[KennethC]

Ken, I didn't leave leave out the Holy Spirit. Who do you think guides any of us through our scripture studies?

I have one question for you. Do you believe that you can perfectly understand every word written in the Bible without using the other resources that God so richly provides?

I believe I can understand the word as the Holy Spirit guides me in the studies for God and God alone is what the scriptures say is all we need to receive the truth in His knowledge.

Where does the bible say different than this, I have yet been lead to a place that says put your trust in man and man made teaching systems above that of God and His Holy Spirit.

For it is God that reveals all truth by His Holy Spirit not any man, book, or teaching system we seek out on our own.

 

[KennethC]

The only pride I see in this forum is people who put down education, and then consider themselves Biblical experts, with no background in original languages or hermeneutics or any of the other important disciplines people study at institutions of higher learning. To say nothing of being around spiritually mature people.

Once again did I put down education itself ???

No those words never came out of my mouth, however what I did do is call out those who think that after 4-6 years in those man made educational systems thank their all that and can not be taught nothing by another because they believe they know it all. That is pride and I have seen it a lot from them !!!

You think just because a person never went to Seminary or bible college they have no education, that is where you also fail which leads to false allegations like you did just a minute ago thinking I was talking on the Gospel of Barnabas which is a false gospel writing.

I showed you the two 2nd century manuscripts I was talking about though, going to a bible college or Seminary school is not what makes one mature in the faith.

It is attitude, actions, and knowledge all put together, and that knowledge the Word of God says comes from the Holy Spirit.
So God can give His knowledge to whoever He pleases without having to go to those things. The original Apostles did not go to those things, and I am not talking about just the original 12 and Paul. I am referring to the many that came about within those first 4 centuries or so.