There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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tripsin

Guest
Regarding the end of this system of things or the end of this wicked world, Matthew quotes Jesus as saying:"Concerning that day and hour NOBODY KNOWS, neither the angels of the heavens NOR THE Son, but ONLY the FATHER." (Matthew 24:36) QUESTION: How do these words confirm that Jesus is NOT Almighty God? Jesus is saying in this verse to his followers that the Father in heaven, Jehovah, knows more than he, Jesus the Son does. If Jesus were part of a trinity, Jesus would know the same facts or information as his heavenly Father. So, then, the Son and the Father CANNOT be equal. QUESTION: Why is there no mention of an alleged third person to the trinity or no mention of the "Holy Ghost" as many call this third part of a three headed god? Jesus never mentioned anything about it. Why does Jesus not say that it, the so-called "Holy Ghost", knows what the Father knows? Better yet, why didn't Jesus say that he, the Father, and the "Holy Ghost" are the only ones that know when the end will come. Jesus could have said "we" are the only ones (The three headed god of Christedom) that know when the end will come; but he, Jesus, didn't.
It is really sad that people who say they are 'christian' ignore the clear, undeniable Scriptural facts concerning the falsehood and lie that there is such a thing as a trinity. What an ugly and cold picture the Trinity doctrine paints of a loving God (Romans 3:3,4).

QUESTION: How do you explain this verse at John 14:28 when Jesus to his disciples: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to MY GOD and your GOD. If Jesus were part of some three-headed godship, why would he need to ascend or go back to heaven "TO HIMSELF" to his Father, If he was the Father; if he was already part of a three-headed God? Wouldn't the three socalled persons in one, be embodied in Jesus already? The simple pure Bible based truth is that: There is no such thing as a Trinity.
Scripture is spiritually discerned. If you do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, many many words can be misconstrued. One cannot have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit unless one accepts the reality of who Jesus is: "I am the way, the life and the truth/reality. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6.

Matthew 24:36: "The Son" here is standing in the position of the Son of Man (not the "Son of God") (v.37).

Romans 3:3-4: (I don't understand your interpretation of these verses in comparing them to a loving God - :confused:)

John 14:28: The Lord came from the Father to bring God into man through His incarnation. Here, He is going to the Father to bring man into God through His death and resurrection. - Again, standing in the position of man.

Jesus' death and resurrection has brought us into God and God into us. Marvelous!!:D

John 10:30: "I and the Father are one." - Here the Lord asserted His deity, that is, that He is God.
 
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Scripture is spiritually discerned. If you do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, many many words can be misconstrued. One cannot have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit unless one accepts the reality of who Jesus is: "I am the way, the life and the truth/reality. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6.

Matthew 24:36: "The Son" here is standing in the position of the Son of Man (not the "Son of God") (v.37).

Romans 3:3-4: (I don't understand your interpretation of these verses in comparing them to a loving God - :confused:)

John 14:28: The Lord came from the Father to bring God into man through His incarnation. Here, He is going to the Father to bring man into God through His death and resurrection. - Again, standing in the position of man.

Jesus' death and resurrection has brought us into God and God into us. Marvelous!!:D

John 10:30: "I and the Father are one." John 10:30. - Here the Lord asserted His deity, that is, that He is God.
Those verses can be taken in different ways.

John 10:30 for instance. When Paul is talking about Apollos and him 'planting and watering' in corinthians, the sentence in greek literally reads 'he who plants and he who waters are one'. Now, Paul and Oppolos are surely not the same entity or person, are they? And so the translation is changed, in the English (mainly trinitarian promoting) bibles, to 'he who plants and he who waters are of one purpose'.

But, interestingly, exactly the same greek word for 'one' is used in John 10:30 'I and my father are one', and yet most of the bible's still leave it 'I and my Father are one', rather than 'I and my father are of one purpose'. Which is fine, until we go all trinitarian with it.

But aside from that, Jesus also says 'If you have seen me, you have seen the father' in John 14. So we'll continue with the trinitarian line of thought.

He goes on to say, in John 14, 'If you really know me, you will know my father'. He states himself and God as two separate entities here, but still, we'll continue being trinitarians for now.

The big question is, how can the trinitarian view coincide with Luke 18:19 when 'Jesus said 'Why do you call me great? None are great, save God alone' and 1st Timothy 2:5 'there is one God, and also one mediator between god and men - the man Jesus Christ'


How can all these statements exist at the same time, and all be true?

Simple. Jesus oneness is a metaphor for Jesus being of the same will of God, the same way that Oppolos and Paul are one in the work of God. That's the simplicity of it.

And I back this statement up with this;

1. You shall have no other God's besides me or above me.
 
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tripsin

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God is not a person. He is God. Major issue. To call him a "person" is to reduce God to the pagan conception of Zeus or Jupiter.
You are correct to a certain extent. I think however, that people have come to use that term for lack of a better one for Someone who is three persons or expressions or entities, yet remains One God.

Does God have a mind? Emotions? Will? Scripture says yes. These are all attributes of a 'person.':)

God chose to 'reduce' Himself as a man (God incarnate). Would you be more righteous than He in not allowing us to refer to Him as a person?
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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trinity belief wasn't even around back in the days until the nicene creed council came in and introduced it about 3 Gods etc etc..if we really don't have the holy spirit, we're in trouble when trying to read the bible and understand, but the bible did say the gospel is gonna be so close in the last days it's gonna deceive the very elect if possible, there is only our Lord Jesus who is the mediator between us and God and there is God himself, and the holy spirit is the same spirit that was in Jesus it's the spirit of Jesus that's why when a born again christian receives christ they have his spirit and are able to walk the way he walked, this is how it is everyone has a we all have 3 beings ourselves if we didn't we wouldn't be alive we have a soul but that soul needs something to ignite it make it live so that is the job of the spirit, the spirit is what gives you soul knowledge and makes it able to think but it can't be visible without a body, that's the same way God is it's his spirit not 3 different Gods combined together to make something else... John 10:30: "I and the Father are one." this happen when Jesus receive the holy spirit of God he and God became one a dual being in one Jesus prayed for the same thing to happen for us also and it's exactly what's still happening even up to date
 
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danschance

Guest
If we were created in God's image and in His likeness, why don't we have three heads also?
This is classic Jehovah's Witness double speak. The JW's provide information that does not represent the trinity to argue against the trinity. It is a straw man logical fallacy. The arguement above asks if we are in God's image, shouldn't we have three heads, is based on a false premise of God having three heads.

This image came from a JW website arguing against the trinity. God is never described as this bizarre picture suggests yet they use this picture to show the trinity is false. A classic straw man logical fallacy.
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Wow, wow, wow - you giving way too much. I understand that you want to explain everything, but I can only answer one question at a time, Sir. I just asked for your definition of Jesus, not his history (para 1 - 3), teachings (4 - 5), actions (6 - 7), what he advocates us to do (8 - 9), unity of purpose (10), his ultimate goal for mankind (11). I appreciate your honesty though - that you worship the Hindu god Maitreya (12) and sure you are more than just a username (13), but it is still important to me what someone goes around calling them self. If you want people to call you Maitreya, that is definitely an issue to me though. We can deal with Luke 18:19 and Corinthians 3;7-8 later, after you give YOUR definition for Jesus in YOUR OWN words.

See my last post for one small part of my definition, which, I could honestly take all day to write because Jesus is a lot of things in a lot of different contexts to a lot of different people.

But if I had to describe Jesus in my own words, I would say, 'Jesus is a man who lived on Earth 2000 years ago, alive and breathing in many of us today, who taught that he was the light of the world, and as so, came to enlighten the world. That's what lights do isn't it? Give light? Enlighten things?'

I would say that 'Jesus has the spirit of God, a team-spirit, a spirit of compassion for mankind. That he taught the way to rescue from the world and all its flaws and that this spirit, more than any word, is the way to do that. 2 Corinthians 3;4-6 'For such confidence we have journeying to God, on account of Christ. It is not from ourselves that we are confident, that we logic anything solely on account of ourselves, but we are fit (to be logical) because of God'.

I would say that his teachings are epitomized in the instructions he gave us. Matthew 22;36-40 'Adopt your master, your God in all your motive and in all your person and with all your intellect, this is the first great commandment. The second is equal to it; Love those around you as though they are you. All the teaching and the prophecy hang on these two instructions'.

I would say that Jesus taught us that this spirit of holiness is something that we can have if we take on board what he teaches. Like John 19;21-23 shows us 'Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As my Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he inspired them and said to them, “Lay hold of the Holy Spirit. If you let go of the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you take hold of them, they are withheld.”

I would say that Jesus' forgiveness is much greater than man's idea of it is; like the adulterous woman, the thief on the cross, or more broadly; on terms of God's longsuffering patience, his will for mankind to come to realization and Jesus' part in those wishes. 1 Timothy 2:4 'God whose will it is that all are rescued and to recognition of reality come'

I would describe Jesus as a man come partly to remove boxes and boundaries. Galatians 3:28 'There is neither Jew not gentile, slave nor free, nor male or female, for indeed, on account of Jesus Christ, every kind of you are one'

I would also say that Jesus' advocated selflessness, living for God and others, rather than to live for the sole purpose of 'getting to heaven' or 'avoiding hell', because these two motives are motives of 'law' rather than motives of spirituality. Matthew 16:24 'Then Jesus said to disciples of him, 'if anyone should desire after me to come, let them deny their self, and take up the cross thereof, and follow. Whoever indeed might desire their self to preserve, will lose it. However, on the other hand, whoever might give up their life for my cause, will discover it. Oh, what indeed will it benifit a person if they should acquire the whole world and lose their identity? What will a person give for their self?'

I would say that Jesus is a separate entity from God, as a son and his father are, or as Paul and Oppolos are in one of the coming verses, and yet I would also say that Jesus shares God's 'plan', and is a co-worker in God's goal. Luke 18:19 'Why do you call me great? None are great save for God alone.' 1st Corinthains 3;7-8 'So the one who plants, himself, gains nothing, and the one who waters, himself, gains nothing, but only by God, who makes (the plant) grow. The one who plants and the one who waters are one, yet each rewarded according to their acts. For we are co-workers in God's service, and God's field, God's building is this (world).' John 10:30 Jesus says 'I and the Father are one'. This reconciles the contradictions in Jesus statements of being lesser than God and yet being 'one' with him. They are of 'one' purpose.

That leads me to say that, I belief Jesus was one who wants 'mankind' to be of one purpose; adopting God in all thought and action, hence having utter compassion for one another (as per Matthew22:36-40)


As for my username, it is a Pali word, and means 'loving-kindness', derived from the Sankrit word for friend. And I have chosen it for several reasons. One is that the Pali language is beautiful. Two is that, kindness and friendship are staple teachings of Jesus, God, and of many other wise people. And three is that, I am a person who can accept that others have different religious beliefs or follow a different particular book, particularly when ones focus is such a strong one towards compassion for all human beings. And lastly, I found the story of Maitreya to be really fascinating, and it struck up some parallels with things I have read in the bible; that the world will lose itself and there will be a loss of focus on the godly way of life.

And four, it's just a name, really. It doesn't denote my whole belief system, my character or my views, it's simply something I took a small liking to.
 
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we start off as wayward sons, just trying to have our fun, as we age we begin to ponder, our minds and souls truly wonder, in search of an everlasting peace, to get away from our own outer beast, seeking hard we find his holy ghost, and in the father become it's holy host.
No. You are 100% wrong. Your mind, my mind, every mind is corrupt by sin. We only join with the Father through the power of the faith of Jesus. I have seen people get knocked out by one page in the Bible. You definitely don't know what you are talking about, or am I mistaken?
 
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I think that, the same way we have minds, perspectives motives and personalities, that God and Jesus do too. And I think that they share the same motives.
Before we get into this, you need to give your definition of who YOU THINK Jesus is. And I would appreciate it if you back it up with scripture. But as I said earlier, you have still failed to provide your definition. You discuss before defining what it is that you believe, which is terrible logic.

And also I am definitely not siding with you and Mosus about what you two are trying to say about your own minds. To be quite frank, I think you both are talking utter nonsense. And unless you are able to be straight with me. You wasting your own time. Hell doesn't ask you politely if you want to spend an eternity there.
 
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Wow, wow, wow - you giving way too much. I understand that you want to explain everything, but I can only answer one question at a time, Sir. I just asked for your definition of Jesus, not his history (para 1 - 3), teachings (4 - 5), actions (6 - 7), what he advocates us to do (8 - 9), unity of purpose (10), his ultimate goal for mankind (11). I appreciate your honesty though - that you worship the Hindu god Maitreya (12) and sure you are more than just a username (13), but it is still important to me what someone goes around calling them self. If you want people to call you Maitreya, that is definitely an issue to me though. We can deal with Luke 18:19 and Corinthians 3;7-8 later, after you give YOUR definition for Jesus in YOUR OWN words.
Bybel sê: Moenie haastig beskuldig ander. Wat as jy verkeerd is? Wat as jou naaste skande jy?


Bybel sê: weet nie, my geliefde broeders, wees vinnig om te hoor, stadig om te praat, stadig om woede.


My naam is 'n beginsel, ek verwelkom almal. Ek verkies dit daar, dan is ek die minste. Mense haat my. Maar geen Jood. Geen Grieks. Geen manlik. Geen vroulik. Die hele mensdom is een. Ek het geen probleem met jou. Tensy jy een het. Maar selfs dan, jy het dit gemaak. Dit is jou stryd. Nie myne nie.

Hoe gaan, jy gee my jou definisie?

In Engels, verkieslik.
 
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tripsin

Guest
Those verses can be taken in different ways.

The big question is, how can the trinitarian view coincide with Luke 18:19 when 'Jesus said 'Why do you call me great? None are great, save God alone' and 1st Timothy 2:5 'there is one God, and also one mediator between god and men - the man Jesus Christ' How can all these statements exist at the same time, and all be true?

Simple. Jesus oneness is a metaphor for Jesus being of the same will of God, the same way that Oppolos and Paul are one in the work of God. That's the simplicity of it. And I back this statement up with this; 1. You shall have no other God's besides me or above me.
The translation you are using is not correct. Words matter.

Luke 18:19
: " - - Jesus said, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One-God." NKJV. The ruler was addressing Him as if He was a mere man. Jesus knew: "all our (man's) righteousnesses are like filthy rags." Isa. 64:6.

In other words, our goodness/righteousness is not by following the law (which the young man was proud of), but in the Lord, is our righteousness. It was a lesson.

1 Tim. 2:5: "For there is one God and (no "also") one Mediator of (not" between") God and men, the man Christ Jesus." NKJV. The Lord Jesus was God from eternity (John 1:1). In time He became a man through incarnation (John 1:14). While He was living on earth as a man, He was also God (3:16). After His resurrection He is still man, as well as God (Acts 7:56; John 220:28). Hence, He is the only One qualified to be the Mediator, the go-between, of God and men. RcV.
 
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Bybel sê: Moenie haastig beskuldig ander. Wat as jy verkeerd is? Wat as jou naaste skande jy?


Bybel sê: weet nie, my geliefde broeders, wees vinnig om te hoor, stadig om te praat, stadig om woede.


My naam is 'n beginsel, ek verwelkom almal. Ek verkies dit daar, dan is ek die minste. Mense haat my. Maar geen Jood. Geen Grieks. Geen manlik. Geen vroulik. Die hele mensdom is een. Ek het geen probleem met jou. Tensy jy een het. Maar selfs dan, jy het dit gemaak. Dit is jou stryd. Nie myne nie.

Hoe gaan, jy gee my jou definisie?

In Engels, verkieslik.
Dude, I don't care what others believe. I'm interested in what the Bible says. That is my authority. If you want to use the bagvadgita, quran and the book of the dead, that is your choice. You are still going to hell forever. And that will never change until you repent and follow Christ.

I don't mind discussing an issue, but if you going 2 b dishonest, then u need 2 be rebuked. and u straight out 100% wrong. repent of your devil worship. Maitreya is satan not Jesus. Your buddism, hinduism and witchcraft has completely messed the world up...... the porn industry and drug cartels exist because of ur forefathers ur ancestors who teach reincarnation and tao...... bunch of nonsense........... u die once, then judgement.......... and if u deceive ppl, then u will stay deceived forther.

edit: i dont care what others believe, that is their choice, but i will discuss with them if they are honest, but u r just being dishonest. and i straight flat out do not like dishonesty. own up, grow up, of hoe jou mont.

edit: but that does not mean that i wont try 2 discuss civily, i will still say u wrong, but first make sure if u sincere........... if sum1 is sincere, but if sum1 is being dishonest and liar, then they must b pointed out -- thats why i am saying that u r a liar and from the devil and u r going 2 hell forever

Maitreya is a devil a demon, has nothing 2 do with Christianity. by calling urself that u r calling urself a devil u sir r a demon or u want 2 b a demon, but very straight up front i am telling u basically what that whole thing is about.
 
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Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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Dude, I don't care what others believe. I'm interested in what the Bible says. That is my authority. If you want to use the bagvadgita, quran and the book of the dead, that is your choice. You are still going to hell forever. And that will never change until you repent and follow Christ.

I don't mind discussing an issue, but if you going 2 b dishonest, then u need 2 be rebuked. and u straight out 100% wrong. repent of your devil worship. Maitreya is satan not Jesus. Your buddism, hinduism and witchcraft has completely messed the world up...... the porn industry and drug cartels exist because of ur forefathers ur ancestors who teach reincarnation and tao...... bunch of nonsense........... u die once, then judgement.......... and if u deceive ppl, then u will stay deceived forther.

edit: i dont care what others believe, that is their choice, but i will discuss with them if they are honest, but u r just being dishonest. and i straight flat out do not like dishonesty. own up, grow up, of hoe jou mont.

edit: but that does not mean that i wont try 2 discuss civily, i will still say u wrong, but first make sure if u sincere........... if sum1 is sincere, but if sum1 is being dishonest and liar, then they must b pointed out -- thats why i am saying that u r a liar and from the devil and u r going 2 hell forever

Maitreya is a devil a demon, has nothing 2 do with Christianity. by calling urself that u r calling urself a devil u sir r a demon or u want 2 b a demon, but very straight up front i am telling u basically what that whole thing is about.
wow... i think that was a bit too harsh don't you think? think we should just calm down and relax a little
 
Nov 18, 2013
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wow... i think that was a bit too harsh don't you think? think we should just calm down and relax a little
Bybel sê: Moenie haastig beskuldig ander. Wat as jy verkeerd is? Wat as jou naaste skande jy?


Bybel sê: weet nie, my geliefde broeders, wees vinnig om te hoor, stadig om te praat, stadig om woede.


My naam is 'n beginsel, ek verwelkom almal. Ek verkies dit daar, dan is ek die minste. Mense haat my. Maar geen Jood. Geen Grieks. Geen manlik. Geen vroulik. Die hele mensdom is een. Ek het geen probleem met jou. Tensy jy een het. Maar selfs dan, jy het dit gemaak. Dit is jou stryd. Nie myne nie.

Hoe gaan, jy gee my jou definisie?

In Engels, verkieslik.
i am calm i just dnt lyk dishonesty
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
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Jesus isn't a tupperware party. real stuff. if u cant handle the heat then join a music ministry. im into the solid gospel man
you honestly think jesus will be walking around condeming people to hell just like that? if your telling me so you really don't know God then.. God is love have patients with everyone the entire world is born and sin and blinded from the reality of God you can't expect everyone to just know what is true and what isn't right away that suppose to be our job to lead people to the truth not condemn them even further...
 
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While He was living on earth as a man, He was also God (3:16). After His resurrection He is still man, as well as God (Acts 7:56; John 220:28). Hence, He is the only One qualified to be the Mediator, the go-between, of God and men. RcV.
Utter tripe. Jesus was a man and not God. In heaven he is God and not a man. He was never both man and God.

That is why Jesus is called the "Son of God" because he was a man and not God. You and all Chalcedonians, Catholics, Reformed and strong Trinitarians simply cannot grasp the fact that the "Word became flesh."
 
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you honestly think jesus will be walking around condeming people to hell just like that? if your telling me so you really don't know God then.. God is love have patients with everyone the entire world is born and sin and blinded from the reality of God you can't expect everyone to just know what is true and what isn't right away that suppose to be our job to lead people to the truth not condemn them even further...
Your problem is that you enjoy making excuses for your owns sins and the sins of others too much that it has deceived you from believing the full part of the gospel. It's not all love buddy. Why did God send a flood? Ye sinner, you need to get your heart right with God...

And if you were serious about leading people to Christ, you wouldn't play around with Graven Images Josh. If I am not mistaken most of the trouble that Israel went through was because of Graven Images...........

One of the books in the Bible is JUDGES btw

So much for being completely irresponsible and not holding anyone accountable

But that is not what you are saying

You think that you are right

I am telling you that you are wrong

You think I am wrong

I am telling you that you do not know who you worship......

Doesn't mean you aren't searching, but you need the gospel explained properly to you.

That's why I say this isn't a tupperware party Josh....... this is serious stuff........ if you want to play lego, you are welcome to, the Gospel isn't for making excuses. Its to encourage ppl to b lead by God's Spirit.
 
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Utter tripe. Jesus was a man and not God. In heaven he is God and not a man. He was never both man and God.

That is why Jesus is called the "Son of God" because he was a man and not God. You and all Chalcedonians, Catholics, Reformed and strong Trinitarians simply cannot grasp the fact that the "Word became flesh."
Hang on there sinner
You'll get your turn