There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

[Gjolll]

....Each Person of the Trinity....

God is not a person. He is God. Major issue. To call him a "person" is to reduce God to the pagan conception of Zeus or Jupiter.

 

[jimmydiggs]

As if as JW would be that stealthy. No, here this meme is more appropriate:

View attachment 65123

She's been here for a few days starting threads, and no one really seems to have picked it up.

 

[Pilgrim-Progress]

There are over 500 verses, maybe more, that oppose the idea of the trinity either in direct statements or non-direct ways in which Jesus talks about God as being outside himself or it is implied.

There's also this; The first of the early church fathers to be recorded using the word "Trinity" was Theophilus of Antioch writing in the late 2nd century. He defines the Trinity as God, His word and His wisdom, in the context of a discussion of the first three days of creation.

a la John's 'in the beginning'

there's also this;

View attachment 65146


And the hundreds of verses against the idea of the trinity as it is seen nowadays.

1. Mark 13.32 But of that day or that hour of judgement, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father.

2. Deut 6:4 Our God is one God

3. The first commandment, from Hebrew; 'Not to be - you have other God's besides, above'. aka don't have other God's besides or over me.

Deut 4:35, 32:39.

Isiah 45:14, 46:9

Ex 20:3, Deut 5:7

1 Corinth 8:4-6.

Ephesians 4:3-6

James 2:19

Those are just a few of the ones that explicitly ​imply it.

Maitreya, before I can discuss with you, please tell me how you define Jesus. Are you calling him Maitreya. Please support with a Bible verse, if you can. I am not willing to discuss any books outside the Bible.

Regarding the end of this system of things or the end of this wicked world, Matthew quotes Jesus as saying:"Concerning that day and hour NOBODY KNOWS, neither the angels of the heavens NOR THE Son, but ONLY the FATHER." (Matthew 24:36) QUESTION: How do these words confirm that Jesus is NOT Almighty God? Jesus is saying in this verse to his followers that the Father in heaven, Jehovah, knows more than he, Jesus the Son does. If Jesus were part of a trinity, Jesus would know the same facts or information as his heavenly Father. So, then, the Son and the Father CANNOT be equal. QUESTION: Why is there no mention of an alleged third person to the trinity or no mention of the "Holy Ghost" as many call this third part of a three headed god? Jesus never mentioned anything about it. Why does Jesus not say that it, the so-called "Holy Ghost", knows what the Father knows? Better yet, why didn't Jesus say that he, the Father, and the "Holy Ghost" are the only ones that know when the end will come. Jesus could have said "we" are the only ones (The three headed god of Christedom) that know when the end will come; but he, Jesus, didn't.
It is really sad that people who say they are 'christian' ignore the clear, undeniable Scriptural facts concerning the falsehood and lie that there is such a thing as a trinity. What an ugly and cold picture the Trinity doctrine paints of a loving God (Romans 3:3,4).

QUESTION: How do you explain this verse at John 14:28 when Jesus to his disciples: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to MY GOD and your GOD. If Jesus were part of some three-headed godship, why would he need to ascend or go back to heaven "TO HIMSELF" to his Father, If he was the Father; if he was already part of a three-headed God? Wouldn't the three socalled persons in one, be embodied in Jesus already? The simple pure Bible based truth is that: There is no such thing as a Trinity.

Hi Swingalong,

#blue Matthew 24:36: can we please define exactly what it is that we are talking about before we enter discussion? I would like to know what your definition of Jesus Christ is. Please quote scripture if you can.

#greebJohn 14:28: again, please define who Jehovah is. If you can back up with scripture, I would appreciate it.

The trinity doctrine cannot be understood in mind because it is based on illogical human concepts and assumptions and not the Bible. God created us with a marvelous brain to understand His Word the Bible. God wants us to comprehend what is in His Word.

Hey hey hey, hold on there. If anyone is trying to say something negative about you, that is not me.

Let me just open by saying that I respect that you believe what you want to. I am not trying to imply anything negative about your character.

Also, I know quite a great deal about the Watch Tower Society. Just to let you know.

Anyone that believes the trinity doctrine and promotes it, is in the same boat with "anti-Christ".

Okay, as a Christian, I totally disagree with you, but I think that it is too early in the thread to make decisions like that. We need to deal with the Scripture first. Then we can make conclusions.

Read it. It doesn't say anything about a three headed God. Revelation 1:8, in the KJV starts off with words: " I AM"....not "we are". I believe you need to read that verse again. Verse 8 is referring to Jehovah God, because the last two words in that verse says" "....Almighty God." At Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is spoken of as or given the title: "....Mighty God....", NOT ALMIGHTY. That title "Almighty God" only belongs to Jehovah. So, Revelation 1:8 does not prove that Jesus is God, that he's equal to God, or that he is part of a trinity. Do you have another scripture from the Bible that you think proves the trinity doctrine?

I am taking note of Revelation 1:8 and Isaiah 9:6. And waiting for your response on my two questions.
(It's quite hard keeping track of a thread, can you please requote the main Bible verses that you are using.)

Never heard of "Oneness" Is this a new religion?

Again, I need to know what your definition of Jesus is... from the Bible. Scripture interprets Scripture right? As a Witness of Jehovah, you need to establish that. I'd also like to know your definition of JHWH, from the Bible.

In a nutshell: The trinity doctrine says that God is three persons in embodied in one person; "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost". All three, are supposedly equal in knowledge, composition, and power. The scriptures speak of "holy spirit" as being God's active force, that He uses to accomplish His will and purpose, and never a person. Personification of the holy spirit does not prove personality. It is true that Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a "helper" that would be 'teaching', 'bearing witness', giving evidence', 'guiding', 'speaking', 'hearing', and 'receiving.'. In so doing, the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the personal pronoun "he" to that "helper" (paraclete).

(Compare John 14:16,17; John 15:26; John 16:7-15). However, it is not unusual in the Scriptures for something that is not actually a person to be personalized or personified. Wisdom is personified in the book of Proverbs; and feminine pronominal forms are used of it in the original Hebrew, as also in many English translations (KJ, RS, JP, AT). Wisdom is also personified at Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35, where it is depicted as having both "works" and "children." The apostle Paul personalized or personified 'sin' and 'death' and also 'undeserved kindness' as "kings" (Romans 5:14,17,21; Romans 6:12). The apostle Paul also speaks of sin as "receiving an inducement", "working out covetousness", "seducing", and "killing" (Romans 7:8-110. Yet it is obvious that he did not mean that sin was actually a person. The same principle or rule of thumb, applies to Jesus when he personified the holy spirit as having personality.

Okay, I need to know which version of the New World Translation you are using. Are you using the Old one or the New one?

This is a bit too ahead for me, the scriptures that you are dealing with now, because I am still waiting on your other responses, but can you requote them later, just it's hard to keep track.

Does the Trinity doctrine make sense to you and if so, do you have scriptures to back up what you believe? I have come to find in conversing with others that many only go along with what their pastor or clergy say is "law" or truth. Nobody does what Acts 17:11 says anymore. Fear of retaliation or fear of what others may think or might say cause the masses to go along with religious falsehoods such as the trinity doctrine. No one seems to question, even in the mind and heart, the validity of such an illogical unscriptural doctrine (Philippians 1:10).

You see, it is not really fair for you to take the thread that far, without first defining EXACTLY what it is that you are saying, and maybe someone like me defining EXACTLY what he is saying, with the Bible. Because Scripture interprets scripture.

This kind of thing should be dealt like I ask a question, you answer, and you ask, then I answer. In that format. That's probably the best way to deal with this topic, otherwise we won't be interpreting scripture properly.

(You don't have to answer to all my statements, just the questions that count, i.e. what is your definition of Jesus and Jehovah, and please support with Scripture... and please keep note of your other scriptures to requote later, as I can't respond to all of them at once. I ask a question, you ask a question, with all do respect.)

There is no where in the Scriptures that says God came to earth in the flesh embodied in the person of Jesus. I would like to examine that scripture if you can find it. I've read the whole Bible countless of times and I have never ran across anything supporting your statement that God came to earth in the flesh in the person of Jesus.

Just because there is allegedly only one, does not eliminate the teaching. You need to keep within the context of the Bible. Scripture interprets scripture, but with all do respect - you need respect that, but we can't really go any further without your exact definitions.... so kindly waiting.

God is not three heads, but man is triune in nature.

Okay, just like I asked the OP, what is your definition of Jesus and Jehovah according to the Bible.

The Trinity doctrine is an illogical, non-Bible based teaching. Many are confused by this falsehood...and as a result do not feel close to God; or feel real love or real connection to/ for God because this erroneous teaching.John 7:29, is one of many verses in the Bible that disproves the Trinity doctrine.

Okay, one thing that I don't think that either of us should be doing is beating a drum. We should just deal with the basics first.

We, as Christians, could be reminded that the Lord Jesus was crucified for telling He was the Son of God and, by saying that, He was also "God", divinely coming for our Spiritual Father in Heaven. Jews were not fooled! They knew the O.T. very well and Moses, somewhere wrote to kill those who were saying things leading to whorship "Another God"...

Here we see, in that aspect, Christianity could be leading MANY to a thing not connected to MONOTEISM.

I do agree Jesus is devine, but not God, the Father. and His Spirit is related or connected to JAH, not that way Catholics has told us, long ago.

At the long run, God could help us understand this, if it is important enough, since salvation doesn't depend on MY BELIEFS (nor others) but on what GOD believes about me, my deeds, as well as other's peoples.

No disrespect to you personally, but are you telling me that you are a Rasta?

As long as I can read about it, it was given in the name of Jesus. It wasn't used the fashion Jesus supposedly said it be done so and, IF WATER COULD SAVE, The Spirit (its baptizim) would be needless... Jesus baptizes in the fire of the Spirit of the Father. It is God life who really save, not those "formulae" we are suppose to please God (same way Jesus said one of those thieves would we with Him in the Paradise). Saved by deeds or beliefs? Both things surely count, but certain deeds are more important that beliefs.

For example, as I told a Catholic, why insisting on the virginity of Mary after Jesus's birth? She was married. She was a woman (probably a beautiful woman with human longings). Why keeping that state of eternal virginity? Does God need people deprived from their body, when it is sexed, because God designed us to be sexed to have children and populate His world?

Catholicism is a long way in a different direction than the Watchtower Society.

If we were created in God's image and in His likeness, why don't we have three heads also? All of us have "spirit" or simply the breath of life, whether we are christian or not. All humans "are a living soul". Adam was not created with some invisible shadowy entity within him that departs from the body upon death. The Scriptures simply state that he became a "living soul" or person once Jehovah blew into Adam's nostrils "the breath of life" and then he began to live. Before, God blew into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, Adam was simply a dead soul.......Our bodies are simply just flesh that is made up from the components and elements of the earth Once we die we return back to the elements of the earth (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 9:5,6, and verse 10).

Okay, you are just quoting scripture now that I don't think has anything to do with the Trinity?

 

[Huckleberry]

Read it. It doesn't say anything about a three headed God. Revelation 1:8, in the KJV starts off with words: " I AM"....not "we are". I believe you need to read that verse again. Verse 8 is referring to Jehovah God, because the last two words in that verse says" "....Almighty God." At Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is spoken of as or given the title: "....Mighty God....", NOT ALMIGHTY. That title "Almighty God" only belongs to Jehovah. So, Revelation 1:8 does not prove that Jesus is God, that he's equal to God, or that he is part of a trinity. Do you have another scripture from the Bible that you think proves the trinity doctrine?

You are intellectually dishonest and desperately clinging to your false doctrine.
You stopped at verse eight.
I said read through to verse eighteen.
If you continue reading through to verse eighteen, you will see it is also talking about Almighty God.
Even your corrupted New World Translation contradicts you.

When did Jehovah God die?
End of discussion.
Buh bye.


[SUP]8[/SUP] “I am the Al′pha and the O·me′ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” [SUP]9[/SUP] I John, your brother and a sharer with you in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in association with Jesus, was on the island called Pat′mos for speaking about God and bearing witness concerning Jesus. [SUP]10[/SUP] By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet, [SUP]11[/SUP] saying: “What you see, write in a scroll and send it to the seven congregations: in Eph′e·sus, in Smyr′na, in Per′ga·mum, in Thy·a·ti′ra, in Sar′dis, in Philadelphia, and in La·o·di·ce′a.” [SUP]12[/SUP] I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, [SUP]13[/SUP] and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. [SUP]14[/SUP] Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, [SUP]15[/SUP] and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. [SUP]16[/SUP] And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest. [SUP]17[/SUP] When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, [SUP]18[/SUP] and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of the Grave.

 

[doulos]

You mean:
The Trinity as explained by the rulers of dsrkness....

Head for the baptism...

Your secret keeping cult has no new special revelation about baptism. If your belief that baptism requires people to call out for Christ while under water was correct you would be able to show the book chapter and verse to support your belief. So please show us the book chapter and verse that supports this Scripturally bankrupt view you espouse!

For those who are unaware this cult has secrets they don’t want to share on CC see this response with quotes from wordsponge @ http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/78817-recovering-matt-28-19-baptism-formula-pro-christ-gentile-save-thyself-7.html#post1300649 or maybe you would prefer this quote from daughteroflight @ http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/78817-recovering-matt-28-19-baptism-formula-pro-christ-gentile-save-thyself-7.html#post1300637

 

[thecreationtutor]

Ah figured JW's - funny one tried to come to my apartment and talk about it - then she was like all the robbers, murderers, those in jail - my roomate at the time was like - i just pent a year in prison - she had no answer to that

 

[Maitreya]

Maitreya, before I can discuss with you, please tell me how you define Jesus. Are you calling him Maitreya. Please support with a Bible verse, if you can. I am not willing to discuss any books outside the Bible.[/QUOTE

]

1 Timothy 2:5

εἷς γὰρ θεός εἷς καὶ μεσίτης θεοῦ καὶ ἀνθρώπων ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς

heis gar Theos, heis kai mesites Theou kai anthtopon - anthropos Chtistos lesous

word by word:

heis - one, alone, singular

gar - indeed, for, of, (conjunctive word, doesn't always have real meaning in english)

Theos - God, Creator

heis - one, alone, singular

kai - moreover, and, even, also

mesites - mediator, intermediary, a go-between, specific agent

kai - and, even, also, moreover

anthropon - (collective form) mankind, the human race

anthropos - (singular form of anthropon) man, human

Christos - messiah, christ, the one 'anointed with olive oil' (that which comes from the olive tree)

lesous - Jesus, Jeshua, Joshua, Yeshua, Jésus etc


Literally - One God (there is), also one intermediary (between) God and mankind - the man Jesus Christ.

There is one God, and also one intermediary between God and mankind - the man Jesus Christ.

That should define Jesus to your satisfaction.

 

[2Thewaters]

I don't have any specific doctrines.
I don't have 27 fundamental doctrines, there is no such thing
I have one doctrine
the word of God spoken through all of his prophters
that is a lot of dooctrine

the whole bible from front to back disproves the false trinity doctrine of men.

 

[Maitreya]

Edit: between 'mesites' and 'kai' there is 'Theou'. The 'go-to-between God (theou) and mankind'. Forgot to put that in the definitions.

 

[Pilgrim-Progress]

Maitreya, before I can discuss with you, please tell me how you define Jesus. Are you calling him Maitreya. Please support with a Bible verse, if you can. I am not willing to discuss any books outside the Bible.[/QUOTE

]

1 Timothy 2:5

εἷς γὰρ θεός εἷς καὶ μεσίτης θεοῦ καὶ ἀνθρώπων ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς

heis gar Theos, heis kai mesites Theou kai anthtopon - anthropos Chtistos lesous

word by word:

heis - one, alone, singular

gar - indeed, for, of, (conjunctive word, doesn't always have real meaning in english)

Theos - God, Creator

heis - one, alone, singular

kai - moreover, and, even, also

mesites - mediator, intermediary, a go-between, specific agent

kai - and, even, also, moreover

anthropon - (collective form) mankind, the human race

anthropos - (singular form of anthropon) man, human

Christos - messiah, christ, the one 'anointed with olive oil' (that which comes from the olive tree)

lesous - Jesus, Jeshua, Joshua, Yeshua, Jésus etc


Literally - One God (there is), also one intermediary (between) God and mankind - the man Jesus Christ.

There is one God, and also one intermediary between God and mankind - the man Jesus Christ.

That should define Jesus to your satisfaction.

You didn't answer my question. I asked you to give your definition, and support with scripture. What is your understanding of Jesus. It's one thing to quote, another to show that you understand what is being said. In your own words, define your understanding of Jesus. I think we understand the same thing from the verse though. Also, why do you use the name Maitreya? So, I have two questions for you. You can ask me questions if you like.

 

[2Thewaters]

I see many people on this site who have the spirit of God. One lady this week said she was going to get off the web and go read her entire Bible.
The problem with most of these questions is that it is clear the person has not read his Bible
I would strongly advise you go sit down, take your bible and read through the entire Bible from front to Back
99 percent of these questions would no longer exist.
Before you read your Bible each day, pray that God would give you grace by his holy spirit to understand what you are about to read
then with every verse ask God how is this important for my salvation? and after each verse Thank God for giving you that verse
and read the whole bible that way

and you will see immediately alll the traps of the enemy
and you will be strong in the word.

God bless you as you begin to read your Bible
Try and compare the bibles
when you come across a verse you do not understand, read the same verse in another version.
have at least two versions or more with you

and you will see many things
always pray
"Teach me your law and how to walk in it

the psalm prayers of Psalm 119 are very good to give you understanding of the Lw (Torah- all that the prophets have spoken)

 

[2Thewaters]

Some have been blocked from reading their bibles because the enemy in his curch has told him "You dont need to read that, that was for the Jews, or that was done away with"
Tell the enemy
"get thee behind me satan, the Bible was written for me, all for me, and it is Jesus talking to me, and I would have it in my heart..."
and make sure you keep away from that person as much as possible who toldd you that...

Jesus told ME
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

ok what scriptures did Jesus have?
did he have new testament?
noi
he had THE POWER OF GOD
I want the power of GOD
amen praise the Lord, Praise the Lord Blessed be the Lord.
Old and new are the scriptures testifying of Jesus read them all eat them all and you cannot be tricked any longer.

 

[chubbena]

The attributes of a personality: Mind, emotions and will.

1 Cor. 2:10-11 - The Spirit searches and knows. This proves He has a mind.
Eph. 3:40 - "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit." - This proves He has emotions.
Rom 8:26-27 - The Holy Spirit gives (spiritual) gifts as he wills. - This proves He has a will.

See: John 14:16-17

1 Cor 2 mentioned 4 times the spirit of God. The spirit OF God.
Eph 3:40 - I trust you meant 4:30 - Again it says the holy spirit of God.
Rom 8:26-27 - it's the same spirit mentioned in 1 Cor and Eph 4, correct?
John 14:16-17 - Yeshua will pray the Father. The Father will GIVE another comforter - doesn't sound same divinity to me.
What do you say?

 

[Huckleberry]

Why can't "you people" just go to JoHo Chat, and revel together in your theology of denial?
Don't the JoHo's have their own forums?
This is Christian Chat.
Quit trying to spread your sick cult here.

 

[chubbena]

I suppose, that is enough, isn't it, God's words are the Truth, if He says that Christ was with Him from the beginning then that should tell you something very simple: Christ was with God from the beginning, in the beginning, and, will be with Him until the end, which, by the way, is never-ending.



I am not sure what you mean by the word 'persons' needing explained, a person is someone who is a presence inside us, who does things to help others. The Holy Spirit helps others . He is there, that person's Helper
The word 'person' is hard to understand, for putting the word into tangible terms is a wrong thing to do, for no one has seen God and God IS the Holy Spirit given us. NO ONE, that I know of , has ever seen the Holy Spirit. But is He real and does that make Him a person? You decide The Lord leads , His Spirit will 'reveal' all truth to you in His 'due time,' and, yes, those quoted words on in Scripture

The Holy Spirit is a 'Helper,' would you consider that a 'distinct divine Person,' as you put it, chubbub
Scripture says that the Holy Spirit lit on Jesus in the form of a dove. So, I guess, you have to think of it as you want to, either the Holy Spirit is a person or it's a white bird of peace . I choose to believe the former, the Holy Spirit is a person, distinct in

Persons - I just wanted to know if it means something other than it's normal secular meaning. The reason why I asked for definition of each term is because I don't like running round and round with theologians (I'm not saying you are ).
So why use the word "persons" at all? Because of no better word? If there's no better word why don't we leave the scripture as is instead of inventing doctrines and use it to distinguish true and false Christians? Would the early Christians need to believe that to be saved?
Peter said: you are the Messiah, the son of the living God. Isn't that good enough?

 

[chubbena]

I don't have any specific doctrines.
I don't have 27 fundamental doctrines, there is no such thing
I have one doctrine
the word of God spoken through all of his prophters
that is a lot of dooctrine

the whole bible from front to back disproves the false trinity doctrine of men.

Not necessarily false but definitely flawed.

 

[Maitreya]

You didn't answer my question. I asked you to give your definition, and support with scripture. What is your understanding of Jesus. It's one thing to quote, another to show that you understand what is being said. In your own words, define your understanding of Jesus. I think we understand the same thing from the verse though. Also, why do you use the name Maitreya? So, I have two questions for you. You can ask me questions if you like.

See my last post for one small part of my definition, which, I could honestly take all day to write because Jesus is a lot of things in a lot of different contexts to a lot of different people.

But if I had to describe Jesus in my own words, I would say, 'Jesus is a man who lived on Earth 2000 years ago, alive and breathing in many of us today, who taught that he was the light of the world, and as so, came to enlighten the world. That's what lights do isn't it? Give light? Enlighten things?'

I would say that 'Jesus has the spirit of God, a team-spirit, a spirit of compassion for mankind. That he taught the way to rescue from the world and all its flaws and that this spirit, more than any word, is the way to do that. 2 Corinthians 3;4-6 'For such confidence we have journeying to God, on account of Christ. It is not from ourselves that we are confident, that we logic anything solely on account of ourselves, but we are fit (to be logical) because of God'.

I would say that his teachings are epitomized in the instructions he gave us. Matthew 22;36-40 'Adopt your master, your God in all your motive and in all your person and with all your intellect, this is the first great commandment. The second is equal to it; Love those around you as though they are you. All the teaching and the prophecy hang on these two instructions'.

I would say that Jesus taught us that this spirit of holiness is something that we can have if we take on board what he teaches. Like John 19;21-23 shows us 'Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As my Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he inspired them and said to them, “Lay hold of the Holy Spirit. If you let go of the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you take hold of them, they are withheld.”

I would say that Jesus' forgiveness is much greater than man's idea of it is; like the adulterous woman, the thief on the cross, or more broadly; on terms of God's longsuffering patience, his will for mankind to come to realization and Jesus' part in those wishes. 1 Timothy 2:4 'God whose will it is that all are rescued and to recognition of reality come'

I would describe Jesus as a man come partly to remove boxes and boundaries. Galatians 3:28 'There is neither Jew not gentile, slave nor free, nor male or female, for indeed, on account of Jesus Christ, every kind of you are one'

I would also say that Jesus' advocated selflessness, living for God and others, rather than to live for the sole purpose of 'getting to heaven' or 'avoiding hell', because these two motives are motives of 'law' rather than motives of spirituality. Matthew 16:24 'Then Jesus said to disciples of him, 'if anyone should desire after me to come, let them deny their self, and take up the cross thereof, and follow. Whoever indeed might desire their self to preserve, will lose it. However, on the other hand, whoever might give up their life for my cause, will discover it. Oh, what indeed will it benifit a person if they should acquire the whole world and lose their identity? What will a person give for their self?'

I would say that Jesus is a separate entity from God, as a son and his father are, or as Paul and Oppolos are in one of the coming verses, and yet I would also say that Jesus shares God's 'plan', and is a co-worker in God's goal. Luke 18:19 'Why do you call me great? None are great save for God alone.' 1st Corinthains 3;7-8 'So the one who plants, himself, gains nothing, and the one who waters, himself, gains nothing, but only by God, who makes (the plant) grow. The one who plants and the one who waters are one, yet each rewarded according to their acts. For we are co-workers in God's service, and God's field, God's building is this (world).' John 10:30 Jesus says 'I and the Father are one'. This reconciles the contradictions in Jesus statements of being lesser than God and yet being 'one' with him. They are of 'one' purpose.

That leads me to say that, I belief Jesus was one who wants 'mankind' to be of one purpose; adopting God in all thought and action, hence having utter compassion for one another (as per Matthew22:36-40)


As for my username, it is a Pali word, and means 'loving-kindness', derived from the Sankrit word for friend. And I have chosen it for several reasons. One is that the Pali language is beautiful. Two is that, kindness and friendship are staple teachings of Jesus, God, and of many other wise people. And three is that, I am a person who can accept that others have different religious beliefs or follow a different particular book, particularly when ones focus is such a strong one towards compassion for all human beings. And lastly, I found the story of Maitreya to be really fascinating, and it struck up some parallels with things I have read in the bible; that the world will lose itself and there will be a loss of focus on the godly way of life.

And four, it's just a name, really. It doesn't denote my whole belief system, my character or my views, it's simply something I took a small liking to.

 

[Mosus]

we start off as wayward sons, just trying to have our fun, as we age we begin to ponder, our minds and souls truly wonder, in search of an everlasting peace, to get away from our own outer beast, seeking hard we find his holy ghost, and in the father become it's holy host.

 

[Maitreya]

I think that, the same way we have minds, perspectives motives and personalities, that God and Jesus do too. And I think that they share the same motives.

 

[Maitreya]

Sorry Pilgrim, perhaps I mightn't have evidenced my views and definitions enough. Here is the same text with more scriptural referencing. My scriptural references and logic are in blue.

But if I had to describe Jesus in my own words, I would say, 'Jesus is a man who lived on Earth 2000 years ago, bible dating, secular history alive and breathing in many of us today, philosophical point, ‘my uncle is always alive in my thoughts’ who taught that he was the light of the world, John 8:12 and as so, came to enlighten the world. follow-up logic That's what lights do isn't it? Give light? Enlighten things?'

I would say that 'Jesus has the spirit of God, Luke 4:18 ‘I have the spirit of the Lord’ a team-spirit, a spirit of compassion for mankind John 3;16 ‘for God had such compassion for the world that he sent his begotten son ...’. That he taught the way to rescue from the world and all its flaws John 14;6 I am the path to reality, to life ..’ and that this spirit, more than any word, is the way to do that. 2 corinthains 3:6 ‘for the letter of the law brings down, but the spirit vivifies’ 2 Corinthians 3;4-6 'For such confidence we have journeying to God, on account of Christ. It is not from ourselves that we are confident, that we logic anything solely on account of ourselves, but we are fit (to be logical) because of God'.

I would say that his teachings are epitomized in the instructions he gave us. Matthew 22;36-40 'Adopt your master, your God in all your motive and in all your person and with all your intellect, this is the first great commandment. The second is equal to it; Love those around you as though they are you.All the teaching and the prophecy hang on these two instructions'.

I would say that Jesus taught us that this spirit of holiness is something that we can have if we take on board what he teaches. Like John 19;21-23 shows us - 'Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As my Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he inspired them and said to them, “Lay hold of the Holy Spirit. If you let go of the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you take hold of them, they are withheld.”

I would say that Jesus' forgiveness is much greater than man's idea of it is; like the adulterous woman, well known story the thief on the cross, even more well known story or more broadly; on terms of God's longsuffering patience, not slow in delivering his absolute promise 2 Peter 3:9 nor his ‘irrevocable decree’ Isiaih 45:22-23 his will for mankind to come to realization and Jesus' part in those wishes. 1 Timothy 2:4 'God whose will it is that all are rescued and to recognition of reality come'

I would describe Jesus as a man come partly to remove boxes and boundaries. Galatians 3:28 'There is neither Jew not gentile, slave nor free, nor male or female, for indeed, on account of Jesus Christ, every kind of you are one'

I would also say that Jesus' advocated selflessness, ‘have compassion for your enemies, do good to those who persecute you etc’, dying for mankind is total selflessness living for God and others, already stated and proofed rather than to live for the sole purpose of 'getting to heaven' or 'avoiding hell', selfish motives because these two motives are motives of 'law' law is the road to punishment and death, or gain and favour rather than motives of spirituality 1 Corinth 2:15 ‘For he who is spiritual can discern all things, and in turn is condemned by no-one’. Matthew 16:24 'Then Jesus said to disciples of him, 'if anyone should desire after me to come, let them deny their self, and take up the cross thereof, and follow. Whoever indeed might desire their self to preserve, will lose it. However, on the other hand, whoever might give up their life for my cause, will discover it. Oh, what indeed will it benifit a person if they should acquire the whole world and lose their identity? What will a person give for their self?'

I would say that Jesus is a separate entity from God, as a son and his father are, 1 Timothy 2:5, Jesus calling God father, vice versa etc or as Paul and Oppolos are in one of the coming verses, and yet I would also say that Jesus shares God's 'plan', and is a co-worker in God's goal. Luke 18:19 'Why do you call me great? None are great save for God alone.' 1st Corinthains 3;7-8 'So the one who plants, himself, gains nothing, and the one who waters, himself, gains nothing, but only by God, who makes (the plant) grow. The one who plants and the one who waters are one, yet each rewarded according to their acts. For we are co-workers in God's service, and God's field, God's building is this (world).' John 10:30 Jesus says 'I and the Father are one'. This reconciles the contradictions in Jesus statements of being lesser than God and yet being 'one' with him. They are of 'one' purpose.

That leads me to say that, I believe Jesus was one who wants 'mankind' to be of one purpose; adopting God in all thought and action, hence having utter compassion for one another (as per Matthew 22:36-40)