Things you Seventh Day Adventist Neighbors won't tell you.

john832 · Jun 5, 2013

I always find this thought amusing, that death is nothing to fear...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Being burned to death with no hope of ever living again is nothing to fear? You and I went to different schools my friend.

notuptome · Jun 5, 2013

john832 said:

You are quite correct that death especially eternal death is very much to be feared and avoided. Those who reject Christ have no options. Those who are saved have no fear for they shall not see death but are passed from death into eternal life. John 8:51-52
There is a hell to shun and a heaven to gain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

danschance · Jun 5, 2013

TigerScent777 said:

The 7th day is the 7th day, known as 'shabbat' in Hebrew. The pagans called all the days of the week by either names of their 'gods' and/or planets. The fact that they call the 7th day Shabbat 'saturday' after Saturn is irrelevant..., as the 7th day always was and will be the 7th day and they were not able to change that, even though they tried to change the months around...

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus[G2424] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

...in 4:8 the original name is Jesus or Yahshua:

G2424
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.

...its interesting that some translators presented a contextual lie, to suit their own religious bias to make it seem like it was speaking about Joshua; out of context and seemingly irrelevant - however - the verse is clearly speaking about the fact that Jesus did NOT change the Lords day from the 7th day to the pagan 'day of the sun' ie: first day - sunday...; but the pagan pseudo-Christian emperor of rome; Constantine did ie:

Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321. It says this:

"On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.[SUP]"

Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan ordinance ended as a Christian regulation. Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):
[/SUP]
[SUP]"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."[/SUP]

What about :

danschance · Jun 5, 2013

john832 said:

Of course the phrase burned to death implies hell right? The bible speaks of death and the second death of not being a cessation from life but a change in existance.

Yes, burning to death is a horrible way to die and many early Christian died this way. The verse above says tormented day and night, forever and ever. Now that is something to have shear dread over.

john832 · Jun 5, 2013

danschance said:

Uh, where?

What the Judge says is this...

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Word for destroy here is...

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Doesn't and cannot mean life in another place.

Wonder why God wrote this (through Ezekiel)...

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

The word for die here is...

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.

Doesn't mean life in another place, it means to die. What is the result of this death?

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

TigerScent777 · Jun 5, 2013

danschance said:

...he is talking about the peripheral sabbath days (as a number of others are mentioned), not of THE Sabbath day going by the context of that verse, which was inherited from Eden as marriage was; and which will be kept in the new earth...
All words by man in the bible must reflect the context of Gods Words --- if they don't, then something is either amiss with the mans words; or of those interpreting them out of context - which is what I believe occurs with these issues...

note 'sabbaths' is plural context ... there were other days considered 'sabbaths' in addition to THE SABBATH

Lev 26:2 'You shall keep My sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary; I am the LORD.'

...however, I will always listen to God first - and not man, always in that context...

...mans words must always be understood and measured from the context of Gods Words...

...One should always have the attitude to listen to God - not man; regardless of 'who' it is...

...and if God says do something - then you do it; not listen to man...

TigerScent777 · Jun 5, 2013

I wonder how this verse can be seen; in view of some others mentioned?

1 Timothy 5:23 "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." KJV

...clearly, wine in the middle east means 'alchoholic wine' as natural Jews have informed me that in those days, with no refrigeration, 'grape juice' would have gone off in a day, in that weather...,and in wineskins...

...so how many have given up drinking water - and now drink only wine ???

TigerScent777 · Jun 5, 2013

1 Timothy 5:23 "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine[G3631] for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." KJV

G3631
oinos
oy'-nos
A primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin [H3196]); “wine” (literally or figuratively): - wine.

H3196
yayin
yah'-yin
From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].

...clearly 'alchoholic wine' ...

danschance · Jun 5, 2013

john832 said:

John, I am a bit mystified at the moment. You seem to of nit picked my definition and completely ignored the bulk of what I said.

1) I did say and do believe that when the majority of N.T. verses speak of burning, it is related to hell. No those who do not believe in Hell, will obviously disagree.` Then you ignored the point I made immediately after that.

So really, all you did was nit pick a rhetorical statement and ignore the bulk of the point I was trying to make, which about the second death.

2) You did repost the last statement but but never mentioned how a person can die a second death. You claim the definition for death must always mean:

Now if this is true then why should we fear a second death after the first death if death is a complete cessation of body, mind and spirit?

I thank you kindly for answering this or who ever might answer this who believes death is lights out.

TigerScent777 · Jun 5, 2013

...I believe there is a far worse death than cessation of life, and that is; - separation from God - the worst form of death, and what hell actually is ...
...this is what I believe Christ experienced when He cried out 'Father, why have you forsaken Me'...
...Christ I believe, experienced what the lost would feel on judgement day - complete separation from God - who is the Source of all Love, Light and Joy - that gives meaning to life and living...
...this; is what killed Christs body on the cross --- He died of a broken heart ...

danschance · Jun 5, 2013

TigerScent777 said:

Jesus made wine and it had alcohol in it as the the governor of the feast scolded the bridegroom saying You always serve the good stuff first and then serve the poorer quality wine after people have drunk freely. This implies that alcohol in the finer quality dulled the senses and then people won't notice the lesser wine's decrease in quality.

TigerScent777 · Jun 6, 2013

danschance said:

...yes..., its unlikely he was saying 'oh you left the better grape juice until last'...lol

john832 · Jun 7, 2013

[SIZE=2 said:

[/SIZE]

OK, So if you are keeping the Sabbath, the Holydays, eat clean meat, drink a little wine and observe the New Moon don't let anyone judge you for doing so. I do and then I don't, I keep them and I don't let anyones criticism or judgment dissuade me from doing so.

john832 · Jun 7, 2013

danschance said:

John, I am a bit mystified at the moment. You seem to of nit picked my definition and completely ignored the bulk of what I said.

1) I did say and do believe that when the majority of N.T. verses speak of burning, it is related to hell. No those who do not believe in Hell, will obviously disagree.` Then you ignored the point I made immediately after that.

So really, all you did was nit pick a rhetorical statement and ignore the bulk of the point I was trying to make, which about the second death.

2) You did repost the last statement but but never mentioned how a person can die a second death. You claim the definition for death must always mean:

Now if this is true then why should we fear a second death after the first death if death is a complete cessation of body, mind and spirit?

I thank you kindly for answering this or who ever might answer this who believes death is lights out.

Well, actually what I did is post scripture that shows that the second death IS the cessation of life. It is death and death for all eternity. Nothing, no consciousness, no hope, no thought, it is absolute death.

john832 · Jun 7, 2013

TigerScent777 said:

I believe those Sabbaths are the Holydays...

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Now are these Feast days Sabbaths?

Lev 23:26 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 23:28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Lev 23:29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
Lev 23:30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
Lev 23:31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

And if you are old enough to remember Rowan and Martin's Laugh-in...

You bet your bippy.

john832 · Jun 7, 2013

danschance said:

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.

Second death...

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

death:

G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

I don't know how it can be any plainer, the word for death means DEATH, it does not mean eternal life in Hellfire. It doesn't mean torture or suffering, it means DEATH.

I really don't know what else one can say, death means death and it occurs in the Lake of Fire and burns the wicked to ashes.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

JaumeJ · Jun 7, 2013

Although I do read the Word in several languages, any translation of the Bible in one's own language is more than sufficient to understand all of the terms being discussed here. If one version is not explaining a point well, try another version. If one is in possession of a good, free Bible software like e-Sword or theWord, he has as many translations as he likes in one off-line program at the click of his mouse.
The Father has made certain His Word is available and understandable to all who are saved by the Holy Spirit, and this is all who are saved. That includes the illiterate, for I have seen the Holy Spirit working in all walks of education. Sometimes too much education simply gets in the way. All glory to Yeshua, Jesus, for it is His in the first place, amen.

danschance · Jun 7, 2013

john832 said:

I appreciate your answer, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think there's anything you or I can say or post which will change either of our minds. Only the Holy Spirit can un-entrench a person from false belief. Look at the Jehova's WItnesses, for example. I have shown them what I consider proof that their version of the bible is blatantly wrong calling Jesus "a god" in John 1:1, but they simply can not accept this information. It is like throwing BB's at a battleship.

danschance · Aug 1, 2013

Crazy things Ellen G WHite said.

1) 1868—Prayers do not go high if your children eats eggs, butter, and meat!EGW: "You place on your table butter, eggs, and meat, and your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go?" —2T, p. 362.
Note: Amazing. Twenty-nine years later God showed EGW it was now OK to feed eggs to a sick child and "excite the animal passions". Also there would be no point in praying for this child because he ate eggs three times a day. Wow!

2)EGW: "I dreamed of having the care of a child that was weak, and seemed unable to rally. I thought the same physician stood by the cradle, and said, 'Have you any wine in the house? Beat up a raw egg and give it to the child with grape wine three times a day. He will rally.Letter 112a, 1897.
Note: Throughout the Bible, God’s people ate butter, eggs and meat in the Old and New Testament. Did God hear and answer their prayers? Of course he did. Did Jesus and the people of the Bible really have their animal passions excited when they ate meat, eggs and butter? But in 1863 God let Adventists in on this little secret! Adventists, do your duty and warn your neighbors.
Does a vegetarian have a better chance of not having their animal passions excited than a meat eater? Where do we find in the Word that these foods are harmful and by eating them our prayers will not ascend to heaven?
Ellen in condemning others condemned herself. Her animal passions must have really been excited when she ate fish, venison, chicken, duck and oysters. Her prayers were not ascending to heaven because she ate meat.

3)1870—Eating turkey or other meats perverts your appetites
EGW: "Those who digress occasionally to gratify the taste in eating a fattened turkey or other flesh meats, pervert their appetites, and are not the ones to judge the benefits of the system of health reform. They are controlled by taste, not by principle." — Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 399.

Excerpts from :Ellen G. White eats meat and oysters

Michael50 · Aug 1, 2013

Michael50 said:

First, I would like to thank you for your post. God has a way of taking ridicule and insult and turning it into His gain despite those who attempt to stifle the Truth.

1. You say Ellen White never finished the Third grade. Yet I am 100% sure that you would be reaching for a dictionary if you even cracked open one of her writing.

2. Seventh Day Adventists believe and teach that all sorts of different people from different denominations will be Saved. in fact we believe that many 7th Day Adventists will be lost. The 7th day church is a result of continued Truth and Light that Jesus bestows on His People who are ready to listen and follow Him where that Truth may lead. There are many church leaders that recieved truth and the churchs changed according to it,, such as Martin Luther, ect....They acted to the Truth that came from God opening the scriptures to them so that they could see those things. There are secrets in the Bible that men only know about when God brings it to there attention. such as:

What chapter is right in the middle of the Bible? it is Psalm 118. (The shortest chapter: Psalm 117),, (The longest chapter 119) It's preceded by 594 chapters, and it is followed by 594 chapters. Now,, if you add of preceding chapters with that of the following chapters you get a total of 1188.....and Psalm 118:8 is the CENTER VERSE, WHICH SAYS:

"it is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

I digress

3. SDAs, beleive Ellen White is a prophet. She sure passed all the Biblical tests. We do not worship ellen white, We believe the scriptures are our safeguard. The Bible is the Great Light, and ellen whites writings a lessor light. The Bible is our source for measuring Truth. Not ellen whites writings. If they didn't coincide with the Bible,, we would reject her writings.

4. I use the nkjv,,I have for 20 years. I also have some other bibles around, i like to compare alot of scriptures.

5. We Have NEVER Taught Salvation by Works. We are Saved by Grace and Grace alone. We keep the Commandments because we love Jesus. We do believe there will come a time when laws will be made that will cause men to go against their conscience and against the law of God.

6. I know of no false prophecies that Ellen White gave. Nor do I believe she did. Jesus is in the Sanctuary right now. The cases of the Rightous are being reviewed right now. Starting with Adam. For Judgment begins at the House of God!

When I first heard these things, I too kicked and screamed. But, I love the Truth. I would rather have my feelings hurt and my confidence shaken, then to continue to believe things that are not so. I had a lot of issues when I came to Sda church. All of them have been resolved. I invite all to sit down and read "The Great Controversy" & "The Desire of Ages",, Those 2 books were instrumental in changing my mind and my life.

Again, I thank you for your post. I ho[pe it causes folks to take a closer look.
.

Thought I would bring post # 4 to the front. Thanks Again.

Things you Seventh Day Adventist Neighbors won't tell you.

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